The winds of change have a funny smell

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TheHeretic -> The winds of change have a funny smell (12/8/2012 8:45:09 AM)
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505266_162-57557466/marijuana-legalized-in-wash.-seattle-celebrates/ Thoughts on the legalization of marijuana in Washington State, and what it will mean across the rest of the country? What response do you think should be expected from the federal level?

kdsub -> RE: The winds of change have a funny smell (12/8/2012 8:54:15 AM)
I’m sure this thread will deteriorate to the usual when speaking of drugs…we can only hope not. I just wonder when and if the Federal government will snap the whip so to speak and off to the courts it will go. It will be interesting to see what happens. As a personal opinion I am sorry to see the law passed. I know I will be shouted down but I guess I am just old fashioned and worry about just another way for people to loose control of their senses. I drink socially and am responsible and I’m sure most pot users are the same but there will always be the abusers. Do we really need another way to escape reality? Butch

vincentML -> RE: The winds of change have a funny smell (12/8/2012 9:07:52 AM)
quote: Do we really need another way to escape reality? For many people reality is painful. So, why not? Watching television or going to a football game is an escape from reality. Escape mechanisms have long been a part of human history. Applause from me. As to the results and implications. We will see a diminishment of incarceration of people of color in those states. I doubt the Obama admnistration has an interest in prosecuting federal law in those states. And isn't this just ducky for the 10th Amendment adherents? In the long run it remains a question if SCOTUS would apply the Commerce clause or the supremacy of Fed statutes to bash the state laws.

TheHeretic -> RE: The winds of change have a funny smell (12/8/2012 9:23:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Do we really need another way to escape reality? We have it now, Butch. Contempt for the law has become such under the failed policies we have in place that anybody who wants to smoke pot, already does.

erieangel -> RE: The winds of change have a funny smell (12/8/2012 9:24:55 AM)
Read about the end of prohibition. States began breaking federal law and legalizing the use the alcohol. Eventually, the federal government had to do the same. Prohibition didn't work. Prohibition of pot and other street drugs hasn't worked either. The 'war on drugs' has been our longest and costliest war. We've thrown good money after bad on that war since I was a child and I'm now 50. Regulating the growth, production and sale of pot will ultimately make it safer as it won't be cut with stronger drugs. I believe WA is planning a "state store" type for the sale of pot--the state will own the stores and only in those state owned stores will it be legally purchased. That is a money maker, even if they don't tax the substance extraordinarily high. PA has a state store system for liquor with profits in the millions of dollars a year. Speaking of taxes... What are the possibilities of drug lords NOT becoming entrepreneurs in this. After all, they know their product and their customers more than anybody. They will then pay income taxes.

kdsub -> RE: The winds of change have a funny smell (12/8/2012 9:27:29 AM)
Yes this is true...but we have kids and they will have kids...and as they move through the culture of free access to drugs...is not alcohol not enough to worry about? Butch

kdsub -> RE: The winds of change have a funny smell (12/8/2012 9:28:59 AM)
quote: Prohibition of pot and other street drugs hasn't worked either But there is no good alternative but to try and limit the use of some of those street drugs don't you agree? Butch

TheHeretic -> RE: The winds of change have a funny smell (12/8/2012 9:30:31 AM)
Supremacy seems a lot more likely to me, Vincent. It's a direct challenge of federal authority.

TheHeretic -> RE: The winds of change have a funny smell (12/8/2012 9:32:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub But there is no good alternative but to try and limit the use of some of those street drugs don't you agree? I don't agree at all. There are lots of better alternatives to what we have been doing for 40 years, Butch.

erieangel -> RE: The winds of change have a funny smell (12/8/2012 9:34:57 AM)
Why? People have free will. Those who want to use, will use, no matter the possible consequences. The number of people sitting in our prisons on drug related charges proves that point. Also, for some, the idea that something is forbidden that is the draw. De-criminalization or legalization with education is the only sane way to go. Besides pot is not addictive (unlike alcohol or even cigarettes). It won't be any good for many waistlines, though, in a country already facing a near epidemic of obesity.

kdsub -> RE: The winds of change have a funny smell (12/8/2012 9:35:17 AM)
quote: I don't agree at all. There are lots of better alternatives to what we have been doing for 40 years, Butch Oh I agree new approaches are needed...but there are some drugs that should never be freely accessible and legal... Of course just my opinion. Butch

kdsub -> RE: The winds of change have a funny smell (12/8/2012 9:37:12 AM)
quote: People have free will. Do you really think a 15 year old has the good sense to intelligently figure the risk of meth? Hell for that matter all 21 year olds either? Butch

TheHeretic -> RE: The winds of change have a funny smell (12/8/2012 9:38:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: erieangel What are the possibilities of drug lords NOT becoming entrepreneurs in this. After all, they know their product and their customers more than anybody. They will then pay income taxes. I'd say the criminal distribution networks are going to be pretty much shit-outta-luck, Erie. The growers will shift to legal operations.

TheHeretic -> RE: The winds of change have a funny smell (12/8/2012 9:41:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Do you really think a 15 year old has the good sense to intelligently figure the risk of meth? Hell for that matter all 21 year olds either? Butch If pot is coming from a legal source, even if illegally resold to minors, those teens aren't going to be getting to know dealers who will offer them meth later. That's a great big gateway to use of more dangerous drugs, and this will close it.

TheHeretic -> RE: The winds of change have a funny smell (12/8/2012 9:43:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: erieangel It won't be any good for many waistlines, though, in a country already facing a near epidemic of obesity. It's just a shame it didn't happen in time to save the Twinkie and Ding-Dong. [;)]

Kana -> RE: The winds of change have a funny smell (12/8/2012 10:29:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: Prohibition of pot and other street drugs hasn't worked either But there is no good alternative but to try and limit the use of some of those street drugs don't you agree? Butch Why? 1-We are a free nation predicated on the idea that people should be free to make decisions in their lives and are capable of making rational decisions about said lives. 2-Limiting has epically failed. Instead we have inner cities that are war zones, a permanent underclass held down due to drug laws, massive racial disparities, eroding or nonexistent civil liberties, a tremendous outgrowth in the reach of Federal and law enforcement powers, a prison industrial complex that saps our finances, neighbor states who have been greatly damaged by our draconian policies, the rise of drug gangs and the creation of entire generations of americans who view the govt as an enemy to be opposed at any and all turns and are financed by the sale of drugs. The drug war is over, and we, all of us, lost. And we lost big time. And just to counter your point about children (And have you ever noticed that when people have to resort to the infamous "What about the children" argument it's because every other logical argument has failed?Debate tactics that are fear based are failures designed to appeal to the basest emotions), most teens have far readier access to drugs than alcohol. Why? Because every kid knows a dealer at school who will sell them what they need whereas alcohol is actually much harder to get because it is controlled.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: The winds of change have a funny smell (12/8/2012 10:41:34 AM)
FR: It is no secret that I think all drugs should be legal, full stop. Prohibition failed. The supposed war on drugs is a failure. There are so many social and psychological reasons why people chose to be drug abusers -- and are current culture just about breeds alcohol and drug use and abuse. But even if it didn't, even if we lived in as close to a perfect society as we could make, some people would chose to abuse drugs and alcohol. It's who they are. Now if we (as a society) could only get to an understanding that abusing drugs and alcohol was a medical issue, not a criminal issue or a character flaw.

jlf1961 -> RE: The winds of change have a funny smell (12/8/2012 10:48:20 AM)
Well at a tax of $.50 per joint, the tax revenue would be 3.2 to 6.4 billion dollars, and that was the estimate in 1991. I have heard the new estimates for tax revenue at the Federal level for legalized pot could be as high as 12 to 16 billion dollars. Now for the offside of legalization, it would increase health costs due to damage to lungs (sorry people, if you believe the myth that pot smoke is less harmful than tobacco smoke, I have some beach front property in Colorado I want to sell you,) which would raise medicaid and medicare costs. Currently there is no state in the United States that has a sin tax on tobacco or alcohol sales, which I am glad since I smoke and drink. Now considering the physical affects of pot, I would say that DWI laws would apply equally.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: The winds of change have a funny smell (12/8/2012 10:54:19 AM)
50 cents? WTF? If you sold a joint for $5 each and the govt took half -- that's $2.50 each. If all that money was spent for social service programs instead of war mongering, think what a plus it would be.

tazzygirl -> RE: The winds of change have a funny smell (12/8/2012 11:04:29 AM)
quote: Currently there is no state in the United States that has a sin tax on tobacco or alcohol sales, which I am glad since I smoke and drink. http://taxfoundation.org/article/state-sales-gasoline-cigarette-and-alcohol-tax-rates-state-2000-2010 States do have sin taxes.

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