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Trying to learn about pain - 12/9/2012 11:12:31 PM   
CougarRick


Posts: 288
Joined: 5/5/2012
Status: offline 		OK, I’m trying to learn about pain being inflicted on a sub. I don’t know a damned thing, so my apologies of my questions/musings seem dumb.


I have become fascinated with pain, yet not only do I not fully understand my own interest in pain and punishment. I do find the idea of having pain inflicted upon me by a mistress to be appealing, for various reasons both psychological and emotional, yet when I think of this it makes no sense.


Am I a masochist? Well let’s think about that; Earlier this week I accidentally dropped something heavy on my finger, now if I were a pain whore, I imagine I would have started moaning heavily and had an earth shattering orgasm. Instead I let loose with a barrage of colourful and descriptive adjectives which indicates that in fact I do not like pain, yet…….I find myself intrigued.


I do find the idea of submitting to someone who wants to punish me to be very enticing, and it’s not just a kink thing. I think in some weird sort of way, I would feel that punishment might be part of what brings a sub and a dom/dome closer. Does that make sense or is it just about kink?


I’m not sure how to ask my questions because I’m not sure what my questions are. Is it normal to both be intrigued by the idea of punishmet yet at the same time afraid of it? I see subs posting comments saying “beat me, break me, make me bleed…etc” and I wonder do that actually mean that literally? If so I may be out of my depth with most dominants, because I do fear permanent injury of disfigurement. I think if I cared about someone and knew they cared about me I could enjoy letting that person punish me, but some of the stuff people talk about on here scares me. Anyway, sorry for babbling………


Can the experience of a dom punishing a sub, causing him pain possibly be an emotional issue? Is this something that can bring two people closer? Part of me feels that allowing myself to be defenceless and harmed is the ultimate act of devotion. It seems like I’m showing that I would let that person hurt me if that would please them. I don’t think the pain itself would be as important to me as knowing that I am giving so much to make that person happy. Yet also, part of me feels that while she may be causing me pain, she could be causing any guy pain yet she is choosing to do it to me, so again I feel it as being something special to be shared (please don’t laugh at that).

OK, I’m babbling. Does anybody have any input? Is the inflicting of pain as much of an emotional thing as a kink/play thing?
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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/9/2012 11:25:17 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		Pain (or the perception of) is different for everyone and not every sub is a pain slut, nor every Dominant is a sadist.

It is the interpretation (personal) of such pain that makes or breaks (no pun intended) any given value of the pain--by the pain-giver and the one that recieves it.

Some people (lets call em Dominants for the sake of arguement) are workaholics, that would make them a pain-slut of one form or another, no? The one who waits at home is perhaps also --because sometimes emotional pain (lonliness) is also a high, of sorts for this type. Again, see all pain is different.

I have (as many do) a high(er) pain tolerance than some (or most, who knows?) in my opinion. But, pain hasn't been measured scientifically to any true and accurate measure. (*currently there are experiments being tested on PTST sufferers using hot/cold alternating, those tests are not yet conclusive). I have had 4 children (as have billions of women) with no painkillers. What really gave me pain was the headache I formed from hearing the women in the next rooms also in labour and screaming/swearing their heads off and frankly I told them to shut up and quit whinin' lol. This does not make me any more of a masochist, it makes me more mentally and/or physically adaptable to pain. For all I know, my brain could have totally shut down the nerves at site and my cortex never even got a signal to begin with. *wouldn't be the first time shit didn't get through my thick n stubborn skull. lolol

On a more serious note, I also took 'other pains' both physical and emotional that were not for my benefit, but since I DIDN'T break or bust into a million pieces---the question really is 'was it for my benefit as much as his?'. *a question that I don't want answered, because it was a million years ago and I don't want to dwell enough to delve into it.

Pain in itself doesn't kick start my already insane libido. Pain (to me) is a neutral effect and what really makes me high is the effect it has on HIM by the shock value of my reaction. I don't understand masochists either but I do understand that under it all lies the deep emotional reasoning of allowing or tolerating pain given by someone you respect (perhaps even adore). In regards to emotional, look at centuries previous (or still) that use blood-letting as a cure for all sorts--even for mental illness. Not saying it is right or wrong, but ya gotta wonder why some cultures have done it since they learned how to carve up a wooly mammoth.

Maybe there is also reasoning in the terms 'I am hurting you for your own good'. If it creates a perceptual balance of obedience via power as a reminder of 'fill in any given situation' then the cycle is completed and perhaps a win-win for all.

I don't mean to sound like a fortune cookie but .....The answer you seek lies in your own self and your own skill. Do yourself a favour and if and when you do inflict pain on someone--just ask them 'WHAT DO YOU FEEL, TELL ME, TELL ME!!" and again after, ask again. You will be astounded and thrilled with the different responses.

< Message edited by came4U -- 12/9/2012 11:36:17 PM >

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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/9/2012 11:33:35 PM   
CougarRick


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quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

Do yourself a favour and if and when you do inflict pain on someone--just ask them 'WHAT DO YOU FEEL, TELL ME, TELL ME!!" and again after, ask again.




Oh I don’t want to inflict pain. I want to be on the receiving end (I think)

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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/9/2012 11:37:42 PM   
CougarRick


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quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U
Maybe there is also reasoning in the terms 'I am hurting you for your own good'. If it creates a perceptual balance of obedience via power as a reminder of 'fill in any given situation' then the cycle is completed and perhaps a win-win for all.



I think this is a big part of it for me. The idea of tough love; that she is in some way doing this because she cares. Is there usually tenderness after punishment? Sort of like a “I hope you know I did that because I care” moment?


What is it like for the dominant? Does dominants usually feel some sort of emotional impact of punishing their sub or is it all about rage or libido at that point?

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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/9/2012 11:39:36 PM   
came4U


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quote:

Oh I don’t want to inflict pain. I want to be on the receiving end (I think)


oh lol ok, sorry, I mis-read., gottcha now.

well, I guess I would imply the same...find someone who asks you 'in detail' during a scene, or immed. after those very questions OR write a journal, it is the closest you can get to finding the reasoning behind you not wanting, enjoying or enjoying the experience as a whole. Communication is kinda important, and thrice as important that he/she knows your experiences during the time in order to be safe and sane, before, during and after.

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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/9/2012 11:42:41 PM   
came4U


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CougarRick

quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U
Maybe there is also reasoning in the terms 'I am hurting you for your own good'. If it creates a perceptual balance of obedience via power as a reminder of 'fill in any given situation' then the cycle is completed and perhaps a win-win for all.



I think this is a big part of it for me. The idea of tough love; that she is in some way doing this because she cares. Is there usually tenderness after punishment? Sort of like a “I hope you know I did that because I care” moment?


What is it like for the dominant? Does dominants usually feel some sort of emotional impact of punishing their sub or is it all about rage or libido at that point?


quote:

What is it like for the dominant? Does dominants usually feel some sort of emotional impact of punishing their sub or is it all about rage or libido at that point?


if it is about rage ...you better know that person damn well enough to entrust their rage is not coming from a terrifying place and causes their judgement to be skewed. Rage is productive only in certain circumstances and not with someone you just met or someone unstable to begin with. and yes, of course a Dominant would feel some sort of emotional impact (and libido), if not then he is one cold hearted bastard--and I want HIM. :P

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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/10/2012 12:28:20 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		You want to learn about pain? You came to the right place.

Let's start with that bit about accidental pain versus intentionally inflicted pain. Even a person who is a masochist isn't necessarily going to enjoy dropping a heavy box on their foot. There's nothing fun about that and it's certainly not erotic. Some people can enjoy random pain but I find them to be in the minority.

Going forward, let's talk about this word punishment that you seem to like to use. Play isn't punishment for a lot of us. Think about it for a second. In any other part of life, a punishment is something you receive when you've done something wrong. By that, I'm not saying that a punishment in a dynamic can't be corporal. What I mean is that we sadists (and some masochists) are giving and receiving pain for enjoyment. That's a good thing, rather than the negative thing that punishment implies.

Answering the question of is a person a masochist is almost impossible to know without experience. Right now, you are fantasizing about pain and it's a cool thing. When you get to play with a real person and it actually hurts, you may feel differently about it. Even that's ok. Some folks who want to receive pain do it because it makes the sadist happy. I wouldn't worry about that too much if I were you. Trust Me. We sadists like both types.

Do some people ask to be made bleed and mean it? Absolutely, some of them do. Of course, please remember that blood play isn't really the most painful thing going. How pain (or blood) is produced has a lot to do with it. Some folks absolutely love cuttings and/or needles. There's also the effect of something called "sub space" to consider. Real quick, that's the brain having a rush of chemicals because of the pain being experienced and for some folks, it makes them have a different reaction to pain. That's why you'll hear a lot of folks talk about a "warm up" period before harsher pain. They do that to get those chemicals flowing and it makes the receiver feel pleasure rather than pain.

Is there emotional bonding afterward? That's what a lot of people call after care. It allows the receiver of the pain to get back to a normal state. Not fuzzy from sub space or from what they have put their body through. Some people like to be cuddled afterwards and some people don't. Water is a pretty standard thing because we just spent time fooling your brain into producing chemicals that can cloud your perception and we just put you through some things that have probably dehydrated you. Playing usually makes a person warm, so when they stop, they may get chilled. It all depends on the person, the play, the environment, and the circumstances.

Can it bring people closer together? Yes. In My personal opinion, this happens to the bottom more often than the top. This is why you hear subs talk about how intimate some of these things are. All of that euphoria (sometimes) that we are causing in your brain combined with the intimacy of aftercare can definitely make a person emotional. The best comparison I can give you is how some folks feel about sex. Some people can engage in casual sex and they don't feel anything for the person they had sex with. Other people feel sex has an emotional tie to it. (I'm actually the latter.) You'll know how you feel about it after you've had some experiences.

As a sadist, inflicting pain doesn't make Me feel emotional ties to someone. Oh, I love it when folks take pain to please Me, but it doesn't necessarily endear them to Me. I'm different about casual play than I am about casual sex. I can do this stuff for fun just as easily as I can do it for love. If I top somebody, I'm walking away from that experience feeling no different about the person who bottomed for Me than when I started. Other people feel differently about that than I do and it's a part of why some people don't play unless they are in a relationship with that person.

Oh, you specifically mentioned rage or libido. Well, first of all, don't let people play with you if they are enraged. That's a bad sign right there. Libido may or may not be a factor. Heck, I top women and I don't have any sexual impulses when I do. I'm swinging the same floggers as I do when I play with clip and get very turned on, but for Me, it's not the actions. It's the person.

Did I catch it all? If not, feel free to point out what I missed.


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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/10/2012 12:40:56 AM   
CougarRick


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quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

if it is about rage ...you better know that person damn well enough to entrust their rage is not coming from a terrifying place and causes their judgement to be skewed. Rage is productive only in certain circumstances and not with someone you just met or someone unstable to begin with.


A far concern. I don't plan on rushing into anything so whatever happens I will get to know the person first

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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/10/2012 12:54:36 AM   
CougarRick


Posts: 288
Joined: 5/5/2012
Status: offline 		LadyPact,

You gave me a lot to think about there, so I will likely answer it in parts. First off, I guess I shouldn't have used the terms pain and punishment interchangibly. I used the term very loosely but should have chosen my words more carefully.

Fully agree that when/if the real thing happens my opinions on pain may change instantly. For me it really isn't so much sexual at all as it is emotional. As silly as it may sound I think having pain inflicted on me by a partner would be an emotional reassurance, as it would feel to me that the person must care if they are taking the time to do this to me.

Glad to hear the sadists like both types. I don't see pain being a huge physical turn on for me. I see it more as the ultimate act of devotion, by willingly allowing myself to be restrained knowing that once I am defenceless the person will hurt me for their gratification yet at the same tike knowing that this person has my best interests at heart and will not permanently damage me.

Kind of glad I found this place and started talking to people here. I live in a very vanilla world and know that my freinds and family would think I'm a freak. It's nice to just be able to ask questions like this without feeling embarrassed

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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/10/2012 2:13:11 AM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

You want to learn about pain? You came to the right place.


Great intro, LadyPact.

Just had to say.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


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We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/10/2012 3:27:38 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CougarRick

Fully agree that when/if the real thing happens my opinions on pain may change instantly. For me it really isn't so much sexual at all as it is emotional. As silly as it may sound I think having pain inflicted on me by a partner would be an emotional reassurance, as it would feel to me that the person must care if they are taking the time to do this to me.


Lady Pact will be a hard act to follow but I'll jump in anyway.

Before I tried it, I suspected I was a masochist. My fantasies involved fairly heavy pain scenarios, and although I realised I wouldn't be able to take as much as I did in my fantasies, I was pretty sure I was going to be a pain girl. The first session with a riding crop disabused me of that notion. I'm a huge wimp. It just didn't feel how it did in my head. I still fantasise about it. Every few months I approach my husband and ask him for some serious pain play. I want to go further, I tell him, I want to push myself, I really think if we just tried xyz, I could take a lot more. If I am very good, he will sometimes humour me. It takes about a minute and a half for me to figure out 'uh-oh, I'm still not a masochist!'

But even despite that, I still enjoy pain play as part of our dynamic. I don't like the pain, but I do enjoy the fear that comes with it. I suppose if I did like the pain, I wouldn't feel the same level of fear. I love love love his reactions to my pain. I love feeling that I have suffered and endured for him. Somehow for me it feels deeper and more powerful to know that he's getting pleasure from me submitting to something I hate. It's easy to submit to something I like. Much harder to something I really, genuinely don't. And I like the feeling when it's over. I've never experienced subspace, but I do have a sort of rush when it finishes which I can only liken to the kind of rush you get from hard exercise, only with love tied in.

All that is playtime. We do have a punishment dynamic, and sometimes punishments can be physical pain also. It's never a good thing when a punishment comes up because it means something has gone wrong in our relationship bliss. BUT for us punishment is part of the ritual of fixing and moving on. We deal with whatever the problem was, and then there is punishment. It is cathartic. It is a symbolic wiping clean of the slate and a fresh start. And I very much feel exactly what you described - I feel safe, loved and reassured because by punishing me, he is saying that he cares. He is invested in me and our relationship. If he gave up punishing me, I'd feel like he'd given up on us, and it wasn't worth his time. We go through it as a way of showing each other we are both committed to it.

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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/10/2012 5:12:15 AM   
CharmingKitty


Posts: 103
Joined: 6/2/2012
Status: offline 		When it comes to inflicting pain, for me it's a sexual thing but in a passive way.
I'm not really thinking about sex when I am inflicting pain. Usually I am focused on the task at hand. By the end I am quite physically aroused, but I rarely am in the mood for any sort of sexual play after inflicting pain. When the act finishes so does my sexual attraction to the masochist.

This doesn't create sexual attraction nor romantic feelings towards the bottom. If I didn't have romantic or sexual feelings to the bottom beforehand giving them a spank isn't going to change things. I'm also the sort of person that can have non-attached sex so that could factor in.

As for "am I a masochist"? Within a fetish context I would say anyone who enjoys allowing someone to inflict pain on them, regardless if the actual physical pleasure is received by the top or bottom.
Whether or not you "enjoy pain" is something you need to find out for yourself. It's something personal, just be careful who you let do what to you.

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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/10/2012 7:50:05 AM   
theRose4U


Posts: 3403
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Status: offline 		LP pretty much nailed it.
In my world slap & tickle do not exsist in the same space as punishment. Punishment I am VERY much a sadist, but use the end of the nose & a dime to get my point across. The humiliation of being in the corner recounting ones transgressions with me is anything but pleasure...for us both!!

Pain (ie slap & tickle) is as fun driving the subs mind there for me as sub space is for them. Pain is a funny thing, you don't have to jump into the deep end at the receiving end of LP's single tail to enjoy this kind of dynamic. Easing in with the ever so threatening weapon of a hair brush is usually how I break in a kink virgin. Brush their hair, brush the chest & smack the butt with the opposite side. Getting the mind wired that pleasure & pain can come from the same place I believe is the biggest hurdle in WIITWD.
The opposite can also be true..."I want a paddling, I want a whipping" & once an experienced player "gives them what they want" its ohhhh heeeelll no this was a better fantasy...this shit hurts worse than breaking my toe with that box. The key is finding YOUR sweet spot, where pleasure & pain exsist together


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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/10/2012 3:42:08 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

Earlier this week I accidentally dropped something heavy on my finger, now if I were a pain whore, I imagine I would have started moaning heavily and had an earth shattering orgasm. Instead I let loose with a barrage of colourful and descriptive adjectives which indicates that in fact I do not like pain, yet…….I find myself intrigued.


I need to be in the right headspace to be able to turn pain into pleasure. Being told to get naked and having my collar put on is a good start. If he were to swat my ass while I was cooking or something, I wouldn't necessarily enjoy it.

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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/10/2012 3:46:57 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

I don't like the pain, but I do enjoy the fear that comes with it. I suppose if I did like the pain, I wouldn't feel the same level of fear.


Two of my best scenes where when I was experiencing a lot of fear. In one, my partner had had heart surgery the week before and I was picturing his collapsing and being unable to get to the phone and me being unable to get untied from the massage table. (There was no way I could get untied.)

And in the other, this was my second scene with a sadist who played at a more intense level than I was used to. I actually started to have an anxiety attack earlier that day.

Both scenes were incredibly pleasurable :)

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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/10/2012 3:53:27 PM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CougarRick


Am I a masochist? Well let’s think about that; Earlier this week I accidentally dropped something heavy on my finger, now if I were a pain whore, I imagine I would have started moaning heavily and had an earth shattering orgasm. Instead I let loose with a barrage of colourful and descriptive adjectives which indicates that in fact I do not like pain, yet…….I find myself intrigued.


Your assumption that masochists enjoy all forms of pain is incorrect.


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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/10/2012 6:37:10 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Can it bring people closer together? Yes. The best comparison I can give you is how some folks feel about sex. Some people can engage in casual sex and they don't feel anything for the person they had sex with. Other people feel sex has an emotional tie to it. (I'm actually the latter.)

As a sadist, inflicting pain doesn't make Me feel emotional ties to someone. I'm different about casual play than I am about casual sex. I can do this stuff for fun just as easily as I can do it for love. Other people feel differently about that than I do and it's a part of why some people don't play unless they are in a relationship with that person.

Oh, you specifically mentioned rage or libido. Well, first of all, don't let people play with you if they are enraged.


As always, LP is awesome. She and I agree on a lot of things, but we do have some differences, so I'm going to use her post as a jumping-off point.

Sadist that I am, one might think that I would be delighted to play casually in order to inflict the most pain on the most people. Not so. I'm one of those that doesn't like to play without an emotional attachment. However, there is nothing of my libido involved in causing pain. As much as I enjoy causing pain, it isn't my primary focus. It's merely a tool, just as sex is a tool. When I top, I become very detached and clinical. Picture the mad scientist, tinkering away with test tubes and beakers only, in this case, it's with paddles and floggers. If I do X, what happens? Or, if I want Y reaction, what must I do to get it? These are the questions running through my head when I top. My primary kink is control, but not the sort that comes from restraining someone. I need the openness and emotional transparency of a deeply intimate relationship to achieve the level of control I crave. I only hurt the ones I love, otherwise, it isn't fulfilling for me. So, when you ask if it brings people closer, my answer is no...I need to be very close to them already.

On the topic of playing when your D-type is enraged, I'm going to differ with LP, slightly. I can play when I'm enraged, and will occasionally seek it out, because topping requires me to exert control over myself (have I mentioned I have a Thing for control?) and gives me a way to detach emotionally from whatever it is that's bothering me. I wouldn't recommend you play with just anyone when they're enraged, but it depends largely on how the person handles anger/rage and how much trust you've built beforehand.

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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/10/2012 7:55:36 PM   
AAkasha


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I'm technically a sadist, I guess. But I am an extremely sensitive person who has a ton of empathy, I get emotional while even watching a "Make a Wish" or ASPCA commercial on TV, I cry at Disney cartoons. I don't have much of a capacity for cruelty on any real level - however, in the context of consensual S&M, there is nothing more erotic or arousing to me than a man willingly enduring pain in order to please me.

I actually get erotic pleasure at the idea of men "enduring" in general - enduring in sports (like extreme sports, or enduring pain in games like hockey), pushing limits, suffering for a greater goal, etc -so long as they are doing it by choice.

But when they are doing it to please me, to arouse me, when in reality they would NEVER endure that suffering for anyone else, that's magical. When I am the one INFLICTING the pain, it's bumped up a notch.

However, I get no pleasure inflicting pain out of sensual context. Ie, just slapping a man across the face, or watching a man stub his toe. He has to be doing it for a reason (especially me), and he also should suffer beautifully....but that's not hard...

Akasha

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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/10/2012 11:09:51 PM   
CougarRick


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders
I don't like the pain, but I do enjoy the fear that comes with it. I suppose if I did like the pain, I wouldn't feel the same level of fear.



I have to admit, that is what I think I would like, ..the fear. Obviously pain would have to happen frequently enough for the fear to be real but the fear is definitely what I would like.




quote:


I love love love his reactions to my pain. I love feeling that I have suffered and endured for him. Somehow for me it feels deeper and more powerful to know that he's getting pleasure from me submitting to something I hate.


OK, this is exactly where I'm coming from. I love the idea that I would be giving her so much of myself. To me that is true devotion, allowing the most important person in your world to hurt you for their pleasure. I would love to feel the trust and closeness with someone where I could give them that gift.

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RE: Trying to learn about pain - 12/10/2012 11:13:44 PM   
CougarRick


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quote:



Two of my best scenes where when I was experiencing a lot of fear. In one, my partner had had heart surgery the week before and I was picturing his collapsing and being unable to get to the phone and me being unable to get untied from the massage table. (There was no way I could get untied.)


So it sounds like I am not the only one who likes the fear as much as if not more than the pain. I was worried how I would possibly compare with these guys saying "beat me, rip me, split me...etc", because some of the extreme stuff I hear here scares me a bit too much. One lady was talking about repeatedly kicking her sub in the nads and to be frank, the potential for long term injury sounds too great there

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 20
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