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RE: Voting. Ideals, or self-interest? - 12/14/2012 11:38:06 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		Or, as seen in the US elections, for some it has broken down to one issue. To ignore that is to be truly ignorant of the changing politics here.

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RE: Voting. Ideals, or self-interest? - 12/14/2012 1:45:20 PM   
vincentML


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Status: offline 		The one issue is almost always associated with a group.
How can you distinguish between the idea and the tribe?

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RE: Voting. Ideals, or self-interest? - 12/14/2012 1:55:52 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		When the issue is skin color, it becomes quite apparent.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Voting. Ideals, or self-interest? - 12/14/2012 3:49:14 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

When the issue is skin color, it becomes quite apparent.

I dunno . . . a white person and a black person can both favor desegregation, intermarriage, and racial justice.

Issues have a social context, don't they? And if they have a social context they will have a social group (what I mean by tribe) So, if I am motivated by racial justice I will tend to identify with the group and then the political party to which that group feels affinity.

A black person who seeks racial justice may identify with gays seeking same gender marriage as a civil right and broaden their group membership, as seems to be happening.

A white person who feels oppressed by affirmative action may seek out a white supremacy group or an anti-government group and adopt other doctrine from that group. Or they may feel oppressed economically and transfer the blame to Latinos immigrating without visas.

I am suggesting that the single issue voter adopts unrelated views from otherwise kindred groups. And so forges an identity with that group and the political party that provides the coalition umbrella for diverse groups.

I may be saying this awkwardly and I am only proposing an uncertain thesis but I suspect the single issue voter forms an identity with a larger group in order to gain validation for her position.

That may explain why people appear to vote against self-interest.

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RE: Voting. Ideals, or self-interest? - 12/14/2012 3:53:16 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

I dunno . . . a white person and a black person can both favor desegregation, intermarriage, and racial justice.


I didnt mean racial issues. I agree with you on that one. But how many times have we seen posters here say that people only voted for Obama because he was black? Or that people only voted against Obama because he was black?

To ignore that was the singular issue for some in this country would be akin to burying one's head in the sand.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Voting. Ideals, or self-interest? - 12/14/2012 4:13:58 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I dunno . . . a white person and a black person can both favor desegregation, intermarriage, and racial justice.


I didnt mean racial issues. I agree with you on that one. But how many times have we seen posters here say that people only voted for Obama because he was black? Or that people only voted against Obama because he was black?

To ignore that was the singular issue for some in this country would be akin to burying one's head in the sand.

Yes, you're right. That's what they said. But after they made that emotional decision they found all sorts of reasons to justify it. The Birthers come to mind. Or those who claimed he was Islamist despite all evidence. They gained social group reinforcement (and Fox News reinforcement)

I voted in 2008 for Obama because he is black and rationalized it with the hopeful notion that it would begin to reconcile our national sin of slavery and segregation (some might call it Liberal guilt but the history of racial oppession is far more embarrassing, so f*ck them) And then I reaffirmed my initial inclination by associating with the excitment of his eloquence and his campaign. I found additional reasons to vote for him by joining the group.

All I am saying is our initial position becomes infused with social emotion. I don't think we are very rational in a social activity like a political campaign. That's why we are so polarized and angry.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Voting. Ideals, or self-interest? - 12/14/2012 4:16:07 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I voted for him because I found him intelligent, charming, almost another Clinton, with better morals... lol

But, I also voted for him as a result of voting against Palin.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Voting. Ideals, or self-interest? - 12/14/2012 4:17:53 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I voted for him because I found him intelligent, charming, almost another Clinton, with better morals... lol

But, I also voted for him as a result of voting against Palin.

*grinssss* Sounds like some good reasons . . . lol!

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Voting. Ideals, or self-interest? - 12/14/2012 7:01:52 PM   
erieangel


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quote:

I guess I don't get your point, then. How can a single issue voter be voting against their interests? They only have the one interest.


No they don't. The single issue voter may have many interests. They may be on social security and yet vote for a candidate that promises to cut social security. Why would they do this? Because another issue that is near and near and extremely important to the voter--more important than there income even, is one in which that candidate's belief is the voter's belief.

Take the abortion issue, for instance. Many voters will chose a candidate on this issue alone, especially pro-lifers, regardless of how the candidate's promised policy initiatives might affect the voter's life or finances in other areas. The voter believes that abortion should be illegal and will always vote for candidates with that same view. It isn't that the voter has no other interests, it is just that criminalizing abortion is the top interest at this time, this election cycle.


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RE: Voting. Ideals, or self-interest? - 12/14/2012 8:53:40 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		That is my point, erie. Single issue voters will find that one issue, no matter what, that will have them voting no matter what the Candidates views may be on other issues.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to erieangel)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Voting. Ideals, or self-interest? - 12/15/2012 12:14:07 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
That is my point, erie. Single issue voters will find that one issue, no matter what, that will have them voting no matter what the Candidates views may be on other issues.


As anecdotal support for tazzy's assertion, I have an acquaintance in TX who I've met because of the old MSN chat groups (was a pro football one). He is an avid Democrat and a Union member, but if the Democrat is Pro Choice, he won't vote Democrat in that election. Period. I admire him for his taking a stance (can be any important stance) and backing it up. Abortion isn't that big of an issue for me to where it would trump everything else, but it is for him.

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What I support:

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