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RE: The Dom who wants to change you - 12/15/2012 1:23:52 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

Carol is not required to be perfect in order for me to find her beautiful. I suspect her positive reaction to my fiddling around changing her has to do with the fact that she knows exactly what she looks like in my eyes. She's probably a little embarrassed by it. Or, at least, I sure as heck would be if I knew that someone looked at me the way I look at Carol.



I believe Carol does in fact look at you in that way... I could be wrong. Nah. I'm not.

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: The Dom who wants to change you - 12/15/2012 1:40:29 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

What is wrong with change?

besides this is D/s we are talking about...not an AA meeting motto, so change is likely a given (otherwise a gal would be the perfect slave from day 1 meet).


Good G*d that made me blink. AA is ALL ABOUT CHANGING. "Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.*" sure sounds like change to me.

*from the AA Big Book (Step 2)

(edited for quote)

< Message edited by sunshinemiss -- 12/15/2012 1:41:48 AM >

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to came4U)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: The Dom who wants to change you - 12/15/2012 7:37:29 AM   
TieMeInKnottss


Posts: 1944
Joined: 9/6/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: TieMeInKnottss
If I am at the point where I care about someone's approval of me, it means I have a deep level of respect, trust, belief in them, know they have an interest in keeping me safe... (And this isn't just personally..I am the same way professionally).. At that point, yeah, it is no holds barred.. I need that approval, that pat on the head... I need to make them know that I am so appreciative of what they do for me that something so small as hair, clothes...why even bother thinking about it? Maybe if they asked me to embezzle money or desecrate a church....but then I would lose respect for them, not trust their moral compass or believe I was safe or that he cared....and then we get back to the first point (The adrenaline rush comes only from being approved of someone I respect, trust...). Boy, Maybe I should just put a shrink on retainer...

Yeah, crazy right? Imagine respecting someone's opinion and then actually caring about that opinion? In all honesty though I think what makes this seem so sensible to me and Carol is that we don't rush into the trust and respect part. Apparently, neither do you. So it always gets back to that classic line from agirl...

"Conveniently for me I didn't pick an idiot for an owner so the bills get paid and the children get fed even if I do obey."




Yep..."slow and steady wins the race!"

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: The Dom who wants to change you - 12/15/2012 8:55:06 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I know there are core parts of me that Master would like to change in me and he has already changed some of those things. He knows I can be quite negative even though I don't see it as negative but "reality" and he just gives me a look or some remark to me about it so I try really hard to be more positive. It's not easy for me though because it's not me normally. He also helps me with my depression. Again, not easy for me but something he would like to change as well, but so would I. I definitely don't curse as much or say certain words he does not like anymore.

Has he changed me inside? Yup but I see it as a good thing and not a bad thing. He wants me to be a better, happier person. Sure, he liked me as I was when he met me but there's always room for improvement.


_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to TieMeInKnottss)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: The Dom who wants to change you - 12/15/2012 9:49:58 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder



Has he changed me inside? Yup but I see it as a good thing and not a bad thing. He wants me to be a better, happier person. Sure, he liked me as I was when he met me but there's always room for improvement.


I'm seeing more and more that much of my "You can't change me" reactions is a defense mechanism from my own history. This thread has helped me to look into that.

Internal change can indeed be a good thing. I already knew that, but it is pretty scary to open myself up to be influenced that way by someone else.

I do know there have been a couple of things he wanted to require of me that I just simply could not do, and dug my heels in deeply over. After serious discussion and almost leaving the relationship over, we resolved things, and he agreed with me that it would not have been healthy for us to have continued down that path. It would have required me to compromise myself at a very core level. It had to do with my ability to have a voice and express myself.

Other things....yeah, I see some changes over the years. But then I see changes in him, too, so....I guess that's just what a healthy relationship does, eh?

More pondering over here...

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: The Dom who wants to change you - 12/15/2012 10:00:20 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

I'm seeing more and more that much of my "You can't change me" reactions is a defense mechanism from my own history. This thread has helped me to look into that.


I don't believe you can change someone else. You can only help them achieve change once they have made the decision to do so. But, you also need to accept if that change fails and be ready for the next attempt for making that change.

I have a neurosis. Mixed vegetables and certain "non-combinable" foods freak me out. I could probably go into counseling, but to me it's just not worth it. Master is not qualified to attempt to banish that neurosis, but he has at least helped me to find humor in it.


_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: The Dom who wants to change you - 12/15/2012 10:21:33 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

I'm seeing more and more that much of my "You can't change me" reactions is a defense mechanism from my own history. This thread has helped me to look into that.


I don't believe you can change someone else. You can only help them achieve change once they have made the decision to do so. But, you also need to accept if that change fails and be ready for the next attempt for making that change.



I agree. When I speak of "changing me" I'm talking these days about his influence on my overall evolution. In the past, though, I became a crazy-winding river of change, based on what the men wanted to see in me. I was not in touch with my core being, so I just drifted to whatever they wanted, to make them happy. THAT is the place I won't and can't go again. It brought me to an extremely unhealthy place....but then again, it took my getting to that place to prompt me to figure myself out, too.

quote:



I have a neurosis. Mixed vegetables and certain "non-combinable" foods freak me out. I could probably go into counseling, but to me it's just not worth it. Master is not qualified to attempt to banish that neurosis, but he has at least helped me to find humor in it.


I totally get this. There are certain things owners are just not qualified to do (this is why I cringe every time I see a D-type take on a diet/weight loss decision for their s-type). But while your master did not banish your neurosis, he did instill a slight change in you, by way of helping you to see humor in it. These are the types of changes I wasn't recognizing when I first began posting in this thread.

It's like the Mister deciding we'll no longer refer to my "complications" (as I called them) as such; rather, they will now be referred to as "benefits", and then we laugh. My influence on him has him seeing life in a more positive light, and he turns around and holds that mirror up to me when I need it. It helps us both accept who we are, as we are, and move forward.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: The Dom who wants to change you - 12/15/2012 10:25:30 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCgzX7vwlFk

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: The Dom who wants to change you - 12/15/2012 11:11:10 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		Ha!! Appropriate!

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: The Dom who wants to change you - 12/15/2012 11:28:22 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
Other things....yeah, I see some changes over the years. But then I see changes in him, too, so....I guess that's just what a healthy relationship does, eh?

That is how I'm viewing this.. it's not some big-assed whoop-de-doo D/s deal. It's a thing which MUST happen in any long-term relationship and I just happen to be the guy in charge. Knowing which changes are wise and which are not is a part of the job description and I get a lot of feedback from Carol on that point.

quote:

I'm seeing more and more that much of my "You can't change me" reactions is a defense mechanism from my own history. This thread has helped me to look into that.

I think that's true (and true in a lot of cases not simply yours. it's the scars from misplaced trust). But honestly earlier in this thread I was kind of laughing at you (in a good way) because I was toting up all the changes he'd already made in you and you in him. Sure, if it helps your emotional peace of mind you can say that he didn't make you change... you did on your own. but honestly that description would describe the entire dynamic between Carol and I. I don't make her do stuff. I tell her what would please me or what I think is wise. Then she sets about getting that thing done. She just made breakfast for me... two eggs over easy and some toast. I could not have made her do that if she was even dead weight much less actively resisting.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: The Dom who wants to change you - 12/15/2012 11:29:53 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff
she knows exactly what she looks like in my eyes. She's probably a little embarrassed by it. Or, at least, I sure as heck would be if I knew that someone looked at me the way I look at Carol.

I believe Carol does in fact look at you in that way... I could be wrong. Nah. I'm not.

LOL... I know... and that freaks me right the fuck out so I try not to think about it. It is, of course, self-evident why I feel about her the way that I do. That's just common sense given her overall awesomeness. But nobody oughta be looking at me like that *laughs*.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: The Dom who wants to change you - 12/15/2012 12:27:56 PM   
littleone35


Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline 		Well since someon (no names) called my eesponse stupid  i felt a need to respond.  I still stand by my reponse.  I said nothng bout anyone elses relationship cause i don't know about them.  I have changed because i want to to be a better sub to Master  he has influenced that change not because of what he is but because who i am wih him.  He has never tried to change me.  I am still the girl he chose, and he liked me from the get go, did not see anything he needed/wanted ti change.

Master and i have been together 7 years.  I speak from my own experiences yours obsviously are differtent.

Matt's littleone

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: The Dom who wants to change you - 12/16/2012 12:03:07 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
Other things....yeah, I see some changes over the years. But then I see changes in him, too, so....I guess that's just what a healthy relationship does, eh?

That is how I'm viewing this.. it's not some big-assed whoop-de-doo D/s deal. It's a thing which MUST happen in any long-term relationship and I just happen to be the guy in charge. Knowing which changes are wise and which are not is a part of the job description and I get a lot of feedback from Carol on that point.


And this is so important to distinguish out from the D-types (whom I've experienced) who will pick out any willing s-type and proceed to create (in the name of "molding and shaping") what he wants out of her/him. That's why I kinda called you on your statement of "I'll change her because she's mine." I'm so glad you replied.

quote:


quote:

I'm seeing more and more that much of my "You can't change me" reactions is a defense mechanism from my own history. This thread has helped me to look into that.

I think that's true (and true in a lot of cases not simply yours. it's the scars from misplaced trust). But honestly earlier in this thread I was kind of laughing at you (in a good way) because I was toting up all the changes he'd already made in you and you in him. Sure, if it helps your emotional peace of mind you can say that he didn't make you change... you did on your own. but honestly that description would describe the entire dynamic between Carol and I. I don't make her do stuff. I tell her what would please me or what I think is wise. Then she sets about getting that thing done. She just made breakfast for me... two eggs over easy and some toast. I could not have made her do that if she was even dead weight much less actively resisting.

Yeah I get that and I know (and knew) that's why you were laughing. He & I had a pretty profound conversation yesterday, in fact, in which I realized how much I am willing to accept these days, which I never thought I would. But, as has been said, that has everything to do with trusting in him, in me, and in the relationship. Yes, I've changed at his influence. I think when I get resistant to the idea, it's because I really did do a LOT of work on myself before he came along and I don't want to negate or dilute that. I also made a commitment to myself a long time ago to never compromise who I am again for anyone, and I've stuck to that. While I've made changes, those few times the changes felt detrimental to who I am at the core, I've absolutely resisted and fought back, and we talked it through at great measures. If something feels wrong to the core, I really can't move forward. This is where "a lot of feedback" comes into play between he and I, too.


_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: The Dom who wants to change you - 12/17/2012 1:59:09 PM   
seekingreality


Posts: 599
Joined: 8/11/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TwistedChange

What about Doms who say 'if I find something I dont like' (meaning about you, as a sub) 'I'll change it to something I do like.' ..
I heard a Dom say this to a sub once, and have to wonder about the emotional impact of such a statement. How could she ever feel beautiful in his eyes if she fears him finding faults?



Personally, I would find that an odd, off-putting remark. No BDSM relationship is perfect, just like no vanilla relationship is perfect. It's a fantasy to think the other person will be 100 percent what you want.

And, frankly, if a dom dislikes something about a sub and wants to change it, that may well be a discussion rather than a fiat. And any dom who doesn't realize that is full of BS or clueless. What if the thing the dom wants to change turns out to be a limit?

(in reply to TwistedChange)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: The Dom who wants to change you - 12/17/2012 4:01:45 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingreality


quote:

ORIGINAL: TwistedChange

What about Doms who say 'if I find something I dont like' (meaning about you, as a sub) 'I'll change it to something I do like.' ..
I heard a Dom say this to a sub once, and have to wonder about the emotional impact of such a statement. How could she ever feel beautiful in his eyes if she fears him finding faults?



Personally, I would find that an odd, off-putting remark. No BDSM relationship is perfect, just like no vanilla relationship is perfect. It's a fantasy to think the other person will be 100 percent what you want.

And, frankly, if a dom dislikes something about a sub and wants to change it, that may well be a discussion rather than a fiat. And any dom who doesn't realize that is full of BS or clueless. What if the thing the dom wants to change turns out to be a limit?


Limits are often the easiest thing to change, changing someone's character, now there is a challenge.

(in reply to seekingreality)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: The Dom who wants to change you - 12/17/2012 4:48:52 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingreality
No BDSM relationship is perfect, just like no vanilla relationship is perfect. It's a fantasy to think the other person will be 100 percent what you want.

I understand what you're saying, don't get me wrong. But here's a totally different way to look at it.

Carol and I started out incredibly good for each other. We, however, were not content with resting on those laurels. For us, each and every day is a day to strive to be just that little bit more better for our partner than the last. While yes, we get it that perfection is an unattainable goal that doesn't mean the journey is worthless. Heck, TPE is an unobtainable goal also but we find much value in walking that path. In other words, we want to be excellent at our marriage and so we apply constant effort at making that occur. We practice and stretch ourselves daily just as an olympic athlete would. We are not satisfied with our performance yesterday. We pretty much always want to improve.

Both of us would shudder in horror at your complacent acceptance of less than perfect.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to seekingreality)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: The Dom who wants to change you - 12/17/2012 5:43:17 PM   
seekingreality


Posts: 599
Joined: 8/11/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingreality
No BDSM relationship is perfect, just like no vanilla relationship is perfect. It's a fantasy to think the other person will be 100 percent what you want.

I understand what you're saying, don't get me wrong. But here's a totally different way to look at it.

Carol and I started out incredibly good for each other. We, however, were not content with resting on those laurels. For us, each and every day is a day to strive to be just that little bit more better for our partner than the last. While yes, we get it that perfection is an unattainable goal that doesn't mean the journey is worthless. Heck, TPE is an unobtainable goal also but we find much value in walking that path. In other words, we want to be excellent at our marriage and so we apply constant effort at making that occur. We practice and stretch ourselves daily just as an olympic athlete would. We are not satisfied with our performance yesterday. We pretty much always want to improve.

Both of us would shudder in horror at your complacent acceptance of less than perfect.




I think you should continually strive to improve in life as a general rule. But if the only thing that will satisfy you is perfection, you are doomed to be constantly discontent. And striving for improvement is significantly different than a dom unilaterally (and, in my view, callously) declaring they will change anything they don't like about the sub. Personally, I can't imagine being with a domme who would say something like that.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: The Dom who wants to change you - 12/18/2012 5:22:29 AM   
subseekstheone


Posts: 11
Joined: 10/30/2012
Status: offline 		We don't know the full context of the conversation.
Just last night my Master mention to me about my weight and if i was happy with it.
W/we discussed it and came to an agreement. I am very insecure about my body but
I also know that he has my best interest at heart.

This guy could be just a raving ass and wants to break her and turn her into what he wants
if she goes for it then hopefully she is better in the end all we can do is hope she is strong enough
to survive.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: The Dom who wants to change you - 12/18/2012 7:24:08 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Its all about the motivation and the other persons self perception.

Jeff could tell Carol to lose weight and it comes from a loving place. Cause she better stay looking great in that uber hot latex dress i got SO much grief over, lol.

Another guy might do the same thing cause he lacks self confidence and only feels better when he undrrmines her self confidence.

I violate limits, shape and reshape a partner but i do my best to make sure it comes from a good place.

Not everyone does.

(in reply to subseekstheone)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: The Dom who wants to change you - 12/18/2012 9:03:50 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Its all about the motivation and the other persons self perception.


I think that has a lot to do with it. Having a history together makes a difference.

On day one, a statement that a partner is expected to change is going to be greeted differently than someone that says that after years together.


_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 80
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