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RE: problem with young Doms - 12/24/2012 2:17:54 AM

ravishers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: teeagedom

can some one explain to me why many people have a problem with younger Doms/Masters?

Many people think they were "born" experienced. They forget where they come from.
And for many other reasons.
"Experienced" is often abused as status. An excuse to stop learning.
Stay young and unexperienced (kinda) ..always keep learning.

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RE: problem with young Doms - 12/24/2012 2:45:28 AM

Teroh

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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

First, take a look at your profile, did you run it through a simple spell check program?

(Hint: the answer to that is "no".)
Why didn't you take the time to do that?

Second, you are 19, I think?
Your brain does not become an adult until you are at least 25 years old.
Most people your age think they are fully grown adults with nothing left to learn.
When those of us who were once your age turn 30 or so, we generally realise how foolish we were then.

Becoming a dominant partner requires a certain amount of responsibility and that requires acknowledging what you don't know.

Work on becoming responsible adult and the rest will follow... probably.

Ooh, technically inaccurate. Your gray matter and temporal lobes reach their peak at approximately age 17. Neuropathways however continue to develop well into adulthood (an exact number impossible to subjectively predict without intensive examination). The rule of thumb is somewhere in your 20s, hence the urban legend of magical number 25.

Ref: http://psychcentral.com/news/2011/09/23/brain-wiring-continues-into-young-adulthood/29719.html
Ref: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_brain_development_timeline

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Post #: 42

RE: problem with young Doms - 12/24/2012 6:20:20 AM

ChatteParfaitt

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FR:

I'm not going to answer from my perspective, since I'm (nearly) three times older than the OP. My perspective can't possibly have any relevance for him.

I'm going to reply from the perspective of the person I was at 22-23, when I first started doing this.

I lacked experience, ability, maturity, compassion, good judgement and relationship skills. I too had drug and alcohol problems that were not under control. My life was a wreck; I had no business trying to guide someone else. Fortunately I was a kinkster (not a lifestyle dom), and being female, meant I didn't lack partners. I also had some great mentors.

I'd been around the block a few times by that age, but was no where near ready to call myself a *good* dominant.

That takes all the things I mentioned, which takes time and experience. Sorry, you don't have it at 19.

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RE: problem with young Doms - 12/24/2012 6:59:52 AM

DarkSteven

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It may not be a kink issue.

I'm 56. When I was a teenager, I had Dom desires but no idea if they were common. (This was well before the Internet). But, more importantly, I was socially awkward.

Now, I can enter a group and see who is who. I can walk up to someone awkward and shy and make them feel comfortable. I can walk up to friends and renew acquaintance quickly. I can find that a stranger knows things I'd like to know and pump them for info quickly and pleasantly. This has nothing to do with kink and everything to do with being in control.

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RE: problem with young Doms - 12/24/2012 7:56:16 AM

theshytype

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I have always associated age with authority. I'm very stubborn and like to make my own rules. I don't take direction from others well...unless they have some form of authority. Someone close to my age is my peer and I consider them equals and would find it difficult to take them seriously. It's a bit different than the Daddy Dom requirement. I don't need someone to take care of me. I need someone to challenge me mentally.

I cannot see learning much from someone with the same (lack of) knowledge as myself. I want to learn from and respect that person. I, personally, can only get that from someone who is older.

It's not necessarily because of a number. Age typically correlates with maturity level and experience. There's always exceptions, of course.

It's not to say that when I was 19, I wouldn't have fun with someone close to my age. But, if I were looking for something long term, it would have to be more than just fun.

At your age, you're in a good place. You have a good general idea of what you want. Just have fun, learn, and you'll get there. I'd also take the others' advice and work on your profile. I haven't viewed it myself, but if they recommend you fix it then I'd listen.

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RE: problem with young Doms - 12/24/2012 9:33:07 AM

Missokyst

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I have no issues with young doms with young subs. Heck, that is how I started doing this, with someone of my general age. I would have problems submitting to someone who was 20 yrs younger. I mean, I have lived a life, what could he have done in his time here? And before anyone says they may have been in a war, sorry, I don't count that as experience in BDSM, or even in how to deal with people.

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RE: problem with young Doms - 12/24/2012 10:28:23 AM

Nakhla

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I think Athena's was really the stand-out response as to how to go about things.

If I turn this around and ask myself "Would I submit to a nineteen-year-old?" I can't so no, never, but there are definitely negatives to it even though I'm only six years older. I think of myself at nineteen I've changed so much in even these past six years, and I certainly wouldn't have trusted myself to be in charge of someone else's life ( the worst part being I was great at putting up a facade of competence while being quite naive on many important issues ). I'd also worry about the short attention span that comes with youth, and might tread much more carefully with a dominant that age.

That being said, if he proved to be competent and sincere, then it's essentially the person that matters, and as we both got older six years would be less and less of an age gap.

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RE: problem with young Doms - 12/24/2012 12:34:34 PM

OsideGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

I have no issues with young doms with young subs. Heck, that is how I started doing this, with someone of my general age. I would have problems submitting to someone who was 20 yrs younger. I mean, I have lived a life, what could he have done in his time here? And before anyone says they may have been in a war, sorry, I don't count that as experience in BDSM, or even in how to deal with people.

This pretty much nails it in my view.

When I was in my 20's, I was with guys that were in their 20s as well. But, it also wasn't a TPE relationship. We didn't live together and it was bedroom submission only.

Now, I own a home, a nice car, my own thriving business and I've worked my ass off to get those things. There's not a chance in hell that I'd give TPE control over everything to a guy in his early 20s. (And quite frankly, there'd have to be a lot a trust earning even with a guy my own age)

Master has earned my trust by proving that he is capable of making the good decisions, therefore I can relax and let go of the control.

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RE: problem with young Doms - 12/24/2012 1:50:24 PM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders
And I'm sure all these older folks on here look at me at 25 and think 'what does that kid know?

OK, Nahkla's post made me go back and reread yours and I want to to quibble with this part... not because I like you (which I do)... but because I think the distinction is important.

I'm one of those "older folks" and honestly that thought had never occurred to me. It should have, you're right. But it didn't so I stopped to ponder why. What I came up with is this:

Life is always broader than us. I don't care if you're 12 or 92 reality is bigger than you are and it's bigger than your life experience. But you know what you don't know... which is the #1 thing that young people don't grasp. It's the basis of that old joke, "Quick, hire a teenager while they still know everything." It's the thing which is really dangerous for anyone old or young. So because I assess you as "knowing what you don't know" that puts you pretty much in the same category as me. I imagine that, for instance, if you were suddenly saddled with responsibility for all of Carol's and my finances you'd do just fine. You'd sort it out as best you can and seek out professional guidance where you had questions.

quote:

It sounds like you are trying to say you know more than you do, which is dangerous.

Yes. That.

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RE: problem with young Doms - 12/24/2012 3:17:15 PM

Teroh

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First off ill admit, earlier in this thread I took on the perspective of explaining to the OP some common rationales for a preference toward older Doms, many of which I see reflected in your posts. I now feel compelled to brief a counterargument due to, what in my mind, appear to be a recurring series of logical fallacies. Despite the flak I'm sure such points will raise here it goes:

1) Any endeavor into any practice or series thereof is postulated against what is commonly referred to as a learning curve. Based on the very nature of this curve, one can see, initial experiences yield an exponentially higher return in quantifiable knowledge of the subject, whereas future experiences yield a diminishing value of return. Now, if we combine the nature of this curve with a persons inherent ability to perform a certain function (the mechanics of which are predefined genetically), then we may see the curve shift and compress based on the subjective individual. Now we need a learning curve to use as a basis. For the sake of discussion I will use engineering, since it is a series of subjects I've both studied extensively and taught extensively. In addition I would wager fortunes that the difficulty of many other subjective compilations pales in comparison. Now, the first 2 years of engineering school compromise the greatest amount of conceptual learning. The next 2 years focus on building upon that knowledge, but many topics cannot be improved to a significant degree of accuracy, others by a marginal amount, IE. using a more complex equation to predict a compressibility factor 2% more accurately or using new machining equipment to obtain more accurate tensile testing data. I realize this may be getting a bit out there for a lot of you so ill wrap it up quickly as possible. After a couple years, your progressive ability for improvement is more heavily influenced by your natural abilities than by your relative prior experience.

Unfortunately I've got to get going, but ill try to continue this when I find the time

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RE: problem with young Doms - 12/25/2012 7:30:06 AM

DesFIP

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Teroh

Ooh, technically inaccurate. Your gray matter and temporal lobes reach their peak at approximately age 17. Neuropathways however continue to develop well into adulthood (an exact number impossible to subjectively predict without intensive examination). The rule of thumb is somewhere in your 20s, hence the urban legend of magical number 25.

Ref: http://psychcentral.com/news/2011/09/23/brain-wiring-continues-into-young-adulthood/29719.html
Ref: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_brain_development_timeline

Frontal lobe development in males is not complete until age 25 on average.
In females it is complete at age 20.

And wikipedia is not the New England Journal of Medicine. Not nearly close as a definitive source. But you're only 22, you'll learn as you grow up.

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RE: problem with young Doms - 12/25/2012 6:02:48 PM

SirGeorgeOfMI

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While there certainly is a lot to be said for experience, I think a good master or slave will shine through regardless of age...as will a bad master or slave.

In my opinion, being good at BDSM means having integrity and empathy. Yeah, there are tricks you can learn along the way. But if you're a pure dom or a pure sub -- meaning one of those roles fires up your belly in an almost religious way -- then you'll be fine.

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RE: problem with young Doms - 12/25/2012 8:58:27 PM

Teroh

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: Teroh

Ooh, technically inaccurate. Your gray matter and temporal lobes reach their peak at approximately age 17. Neuropathways however continue to develop well into adulthood (an exact number impossible to subjectively predict without intensive examination). The rule of thumb is somewhere in your 20s, hence the urban legend of magical number 25.

Ref: http://psychcentral.com/news/2011/09/23/brain-wiring-continues-into-young-adulthood/29719.html
Ref: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_brain_development_timeline

Frontal lobe development in males is not complete until age 25 on average.
In females it is complete at age 20.

And wikipedia is not the New England Journal of Medicine. Not nearly close as a definitive source. But you're only 22, you'll learn as you grow up.

If you read more carefully you'll come to the realization I never made that claim. Frontal and temporal lobes are different distinct areas of the brain. You're right though, Wikipedia is not something it is not. Thanks for that :)

Edit: I'm assuming your misconception arose due to a lack of knowledge regarding the anatomy and mechanics of the brain. Let me help to clarify a few things.

Your statement involves the frontal lobe (as opposed to the temporal I cited)

Some functions of the frontal lobe:

"The frontal lobes also play an important part in retaining longer term memories which are not task-based. These are often memories associated with emotions derived from input from the brain's limbic system. The frontal lobe modifies those emotions to generally fit socially acceptable norms."

Now carefully read this and ponder... In a context of BDSM, is this good or bad? Modifying emotions to fit socially acceptable norms... Hmmm

"...override and suppress socially unacceptable responses..."

Clearly this aspect of development is good for someone involved in this lifestyle right? Haha

Also, as I've previously mentioned, there is no exact definitive number that can be associated to neurological development in most areas. It is a function of numerous biological factors and fluctuates wildly based on the individual.

Another fun fact, your brain degenerate over time in almost every area past the peak development in that particular area.

If you sequentially move through the different functions of different regions of the brain you will come to the realization that the degeneration outweighs the benefits of further development. In the context of the OPs post, this can easily mean that any many BDSM aspects younger Doms are more equipped specimens.

This time, please read carefully the references I provide before making logically inept statements.

http://m.dummies.com/how-to/content/examining-the-brains-four-lobes-frontal-parietal-t.html
http://www.usc.edu/hsc/info/pr/hmm/01spring/brain.html
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontal_lobe

This one in particular you may find didactic

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliability_of_Wikipedia

Thank you for your time

"Several studies have been done to assess the reliability of Wikipedia. A notable early study in the journal Nature said that in 2005, Wikipedia scientific articles came close to the level of accuracy in Encyclopædia Britannica and had a similar rate of "serious errors".[2] The study by Nature was disputed by Encyclopædia Britannica,[3] and later Nature replied to this refutation with both a formal response and a point-by-point rebuttal of Britannica's main objections.[4] Between 2008 and 2010, articles in medical and scientific fields such as pathology,[5]toxicology,[6]oncology[7] and pharmaceuticals[8] comparing Wikipedia to professional and peer-reviewed sources found that Wikipedia's depth and coverage were of a high standard. Concerns regarding readability were raised in a study published by the American Society"

In case you are having trouble see above

< Message edited by Teroh -- 12/25/2012 9:47:46 PM >

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RE: problem with young Doms - 12/25/2012 9:18:29 PM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

I knew that was Mad Rabbit... Yup, you nailed it Red. We *loves* us the Rabbit, Mad or not.

I agree...Rabbit's is a great OP. Oh and much of it is basic and what could be advice in general to just about anybody...anytime.

However even older than 19, even sometimes much older than 19...try and convey all of that into your email. You cannot. I hope you get lucky...that's what it will take if all that is to mean anything real.

Virtually everything I've read about advice here is after...AFTER email, chat and making a connection...even meeting and more than once.

I am thinking the OP needs first to make that email connection and tailor your profile to reflect how new you are and you seek to start that 'email' conversation.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 12/25/2012 9:20:02 PM >

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RE: problem with young Doms - 12/26/2012 2:35:02 AM

MistressSyMoane

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I'll tell ya what the problem is; when I was a submissive, the LAST thing I wanted in a Dom was having to tell him HOW to be a Dom. Younger guys, in general, only think about how to get what they want the fastest way possible. They don't take the time to get to know a sub/slave so they are actually posing the threat of real pain to the sub/slave. BDSM isn't a game (so to speak). If you don't have the necessary experience, you can cause serious damage to a person either mentally or physically. If you REALLY want to be a Dom, then try my suggestion......find a local group that hosts munches and meet other Doms or even Dommes (you can learn from us Dommes). Watch a lot of scenes, talk to the sub/slave, LEARN. Find someone who is willing to take you "under his/her wing" and let them teach you with personal experience. Once you are in your mid to late 20's, you may be ready to be the Dom you obviously want to be. A truly good Dom/Domme not only has a sub/slave but they also have the means to take care of their property...this means emotionally, physically, financially, etc. Don't be in a hurry, you will get there but it takes time.

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RE: problem with young Doms - 12/26/2012 2:40:04 AM

MistressSyMoane

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It's actually my former Master's lack of experience that not only made him a HORRIBLE Dom but also turned me off from EVER having someone in control of me again. And, as someone pointed out earlier, my former "Dom" was in his 30's when we met...his being older had NO IMPACT on his ability to bea good Dom. What his controlling did to me mentally, emotionally, and physically almost killed me and has taken my ability to trust away. I am 37 years old and trust 2 people only. That's sad. Me deciding to be a Mistress came later.

I actually believe that he is not a Dom but an abusive prick who uses the term BDSM to justify his treatment of women.

< Message edited by MistressSyMoane -- 12/26/2012 2:47:15 AM >

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RE: problem with young Doms - 12/26/2012 10:36:12 AM

RedMagic1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Teroh

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

First, take a look at your profile, did you run it through a simple spell check program?

(Hint: the answer to that is "no".)
Why didn't you take the time to do that?

Second, you are 19, I think?
Your brain does not become an adult until you are at least 25 years old.
Most people your age think they are fully grown adults with nothing left to learn.
When those of us who were once your age turn 30 or so, we generally realise how foolish we were then.

Becoming a dominant partner requires a certain amount of responsibility and that requires acknowledging what you don't know.

Work on becoming responsible adult and the rest will follow... probably.

Ooh, technically inaccurate. Your gray matter and temporal lobes reach their peak at approximately age 17. Neuropathways however continue to develop well into adulthood (an exact number impossible to subjectively predict without intensive examination). The rule of thumb is somewhere in your 20s, hence the urban legend of magical number 25.

Ref: http://psychcentral.com/news/2011/09/23/brain-wiring-continues-into-young-adulthood/29719.html
Ref: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_brain_development_timeline

Sigh. No, her claim is not technically inaccurate. If you ask the question that matters most from a legal or philosophical (or D/s relationship) perspective, which is, "Do adolescents use their brain in the same way adults do?" the answer is no. Teens tend to think less logically than 25-year-olds, and that statement can be defended in a rigorous way, by referring to different areas of the brain that are used by a teen and adult to make the same type of decision. In particular, the use of the prefrontal cortex is very different from age 15 to age 25.

Honestly, Teroh, you sound like a student who has learned how to parrot, but not yet learned to see underneath. What matters from a public policy perspective, and what matters to most laymen, are the brain phenomena that are emergent above the neurobiology that you discuss. Further, even the neuro in your post is weird. An "urban legend" from the early 2000s did not arise because of Lebel Beaulieu 2011. You have a cause and effect problem. The "urban legend," i.e., popsci understanding, emerged because of a series of studies in the 2000s that demonstrated differentiation in brain USE.

Finally, the increased connections you referred to may have little to do with the change in "thinking like a teenager" to "thinking like an adult." Rather, living on one's own for the first time may unleash all sorts of new experiences, so people encounter a brand new world, much as they did when they were toddlers, and this stimulates the growth of new pathways. But I don't see what that has to do with change from emotional reaction to more logical reaction. It's not clear to me that your comment about pathways was even on point. You responded to a comment about the emotional maturity of young doms. From where I'm sitting, you dressed up an incorrect response with big words.

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RE: problem with young Doms - 12/26/2012 1:09:50 PM

Teroh

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My point was to do with the unpredictable nature of individualized development. The initial comment implied that the brain as a whole wasn't developed till 25. My point was that different regions develop and degrade at different times based on the subject. I wrote an at length hypothesis on why there are preferences toward older dominants, and it is my opinion that mental development stands as a minor or inconsequential factor. I continued to provide supporting evidence to that affect above.

Edit: Do appreciate the feedback though, thanks mate

I consider for a moment your statement. That teens trend to think less logically. Now I ask you to consider BDSM as a whole, there is very little to no exterior logic about nearly any aspect of the lifestyle. It makes sense from a complex and deep psychological and biological perspective, but the last area of the brain to develop is more than likely the primary antagonist of BDSM

< Message edited by Teroh -- 12/26/2012 1:16:13 PM >

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RE: problem with young Doms - 12/26/2012 3:12:14 PM

MarineKitten

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My main issue with younger d-types is the sense of entitlement that some possess. They want to be catered to and treated like royalty without having anything to offer in return. I have had some rough spots in my life. I didn't have my first real big life experience until I was 22. No, having fights with your parents doesn't count, and nor does going to college. Also the lack of know how in BDSM is a huge turn off. I don't want to have to teach someone how to throw a flogger.

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RE: problem with young Doms - 12/26/2012 4:32:03 PM

VelvetIronHand80

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In My experience, age doesn't matter as much as attitude, and OP, having a chip on your shoulder is not the right attitude.

When I was exactly your age I was introduced to the lifestyle by a woman in her early 30's. I was curious when she talked about submission, Masters, Doms, ownership.
You have to learn before you can teach, and you have to be able to teach to control.

Once she had piqued My interest in the lifestyle, I did what any 19 year old with inherent Dominant tendencies ought to do...I paid attention, observed My elders, listened to people who had experience, and embraced the fact that I knew exactly jack shit
about BDSM except for the fact that I was drawn to it. I got to know people, treated people with respect. Respect doesn't mean submission, being respectful does not make you 'less of a Dom.' I was open about My curiosity, asked questions, listened to the answers,
never took one answer as the absolute truth, but waited and saw how other people approached situations, and filtered out the good advice from the bad.

Don't think of yourself as a Dom who isn't getting the respect he deserves because of his youth...think of yourself as a mostly blank page, ready to be filled with knowledge and experience. It takes time, anything worthwhile in life usually does.

You don't get respect by demanding it with your words or your flogger, you command it with your presence and your personality. Listen to people, accept that you are a beginner, ask questions, and be sincere. There is some very good advice in this thread, marinate on it.
Let it sink in. There is nothing that automatically precludes you from being respected simply because of your years. I was fortunate enough to be befriended and tutored by a D/s couple who had forty some years experience in the lifestyle between the two of them.

Be calm, be patient, recognize your limitations and your potential. Take care in what you do...as several people pointed out, even something as simple as semi-coherent sentence structure and using spellcheck makes an impression. If you're lax in simple things, why would
people assume that you will be safe and trustworthy when, quite literally, they can be placing their lives in your hands?

Just relax, take a breath, drop the chip off your shoulder, study people, learn yourself, be open and willing and you will grow, people will see it, and respect will blossom.

Good luck to you.

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