RE: From the other side of the world

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Edwynn -> RE: From the other side of the world (12/15/2012 10:35:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad In the ABB case, of course, I've also specifically verified the absence of a causative influence. I was much more interested in the ABBA case. Second largest export of Svenske, back in the day. I was hoping that you could inform me how Frida Lyngstad had 50% more teeth than any other human. Just kidding, of course, but her 'crowded teeth' look was a selling point here. Agnetha had ten extraordinarily large teeth, Frida trying to make up for the shortfall in numbers all on her own. That was essentially the allure of the band. Well, OK, on some occasions they sang exceptionally well, too, whatever silliness their husbands threw to them.

stef -> RE: From the other side of the world (12/15/2012 11:19:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn I didn't 'defend' cars, I merely stated that the intended purpose is for something other than intentional violence or murder. We do not go on the car lot asking the salesman "how many people can this car kill?," we rather ask about things such as gas mileage, etc. And people who buy firearms don't ask "how many people can this gun kill". You cant have it both ways Edwynn. quote: Is it just me, or is anyone else seeing a conspicuous loss of comprehension skills here, not to mention what that might be related to? Yes, but we all hope you'll get better one day.

thezeppo -> RE: From the other side of the world (12/15/2012 11:27:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn quote: ORIGINAL: thezeppo quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn Just the violence-based video games, sorry if I left out that detail. It didn't make any difference to me. quote: I am just commenting on the observed result. The observed result is a reduction in deaths. IWYW, — Aswad. Like this observed result, you mean? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks By your estimation, the poor lad did not play enough violence-based video games to prevent such a tragedy. Thanks for that info. Edwynn Surely your defence of the car, that it's intended function is something other than a tool for murder, should apply to violent video games as well. After all, the vast majority of people who buy Call of Duty don't then go and commit a gun crime. I didn't 'defend' cars, I merely stated that the intended purpose is for something other than intentional violence or murder. We do not go on the car lot asking the salesman "how many people can this car kill?," we rather ask about things such as gas mileage, etc. People who buy violence video games are more interested in how much damage can be obtained in in a short amount of time, if the player is really good. Is it just me, or is anyone else seeing a conspicuous loss of comprehension skills here, not to mention what that might be related to? "People who buy violence video games are more interested in how much damage can be obtained in in a short amount of time" Quite the assumption, personally I have no interest in how much damage I can cause in a short space of time when I play a violent video game. I wouldn't presume to speak for all people who buy violent computer games, as you have, but I at least speak for one. Since we are making assumptions I will say I know a lot more about violent video games than you, as I have actually played more than one. Are you suggesting my original point is invalid because I used the word 'defence'? The stated purpose for a computer game is something other than murder as well, that's why I made the comparison to begin with. As regards my original question about the beginning of the culture of violence, I agree its impossible to tell. So if we have always had a culture of violence, why is it only today's culture that is messing up our children? I'm comprehending just fine mate, although I do wish you would make your mind up whether or not you blame computer games!

Edwynn -> RE: From the other side of the world (12/15/2012 1:33:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stef quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn And people who buy firearms don't ask "how many people can this gun kill". You cant have it both ways Edwynn. So you never considered effectiveness in your purchase of either the weapon or the ammo? I already knew that Americans were not the best shoppers, but I would have thought that in a matter of this significance just a tad more attention might have been paid. Explain to us, then, your final choice. Was it because one weapon looked prettier than the other?

Aswad -> RE: From the other side of the world (12/15/2012 2:08:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn Is it just me, or is anyone else seeing a conspicuous loss of comprehension skills here, not to mention what that might be related to? Given your reply to me, I'm seeing one, but possibly you're not seing the same one. IWYW, — Aswad.

Edwynn -> RE: From the other side of the world (12/15/2012 2:10:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thezeppo Since we are making assumptions I will say I know a lot more about violent video games than you, as I have actually played more than one. I bow in deference to your, Aswad's, and others' expertise in that realm. quote: Are you suggesting my original point is invalid because I used the word 'defence'? No. I just brought to attention that I was not "defending" cars, as you claimed. quote: The stated purpose for a computer game is something other than murder as well, that's why I made the comparison to begin with. Again, I bow to your expertise regarding violence-based video games, but as regards real wars or battles, someone usually get's killed, and that is what the games I see advertised are based upon, or the 'virtual' aspect of it, in any case. quote: As regards my original question about the beginning of the culture of violence, I agree its impossible to tell. So if we have always had a culture of violence, why is it only today's culture that is messing up our children? I cannot answer that in any definitive manner. But from my research in another matter, I can say that society is no more greedy than 'back in the day,' but we are certainly more wily and innovative, in whatever cause. The notion that 'more money (especially a superankerful of money to a select few) means that we must be smarter' brought us to the economic/financial straights we find ourselves in today. I could certainly be mistaken, but the notion that 'more violent video games makes us more peaceful' is not that much more of a reach. It's a matter of technology and innovation allowing us to amplify things already extant. Society has a choice as to what it wishes to promote, by whatever innovation.

Edwynn -> RE: From the other side of the world (12/15/2012 3:17:06 PM)
"especially a supertankerful to a select few" i meant to say. The editing on this site completely sucks.

Edwynn -> RE: From the other side of the world (12/15/2012 3:23:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn Is it just me, or is anyone else seeing a conspicuous loss of comprehension skills here, not to mention what that might be related to? Given your reply to me, I'm seeing one, but possibly you're not seing the same one. IWYW, — Aswad. You didn't cotton to my "ABBA" response then, I take it. So sorry.

Aswad -> RE: From the other side of the world (12/15/2012 4:23:03 PM)
Can't say as I caught on, no. IWYW, — Aswad.

stef -> RE: From the other side of the world (12/15/2012 5:00:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn So you never considered effectiveness in your purchase of either the weapon or the ammo? Nice strawman. Try again. quote: I already knew that Americans were not the best shoppers, but I would have thought that in a matter of this significance just a tad more attention might have been paid. Explain to us, then, your final choice. Was it because one weapon looked prettier than the other? Are you always this much of an idiot or have you been eating wall candy lately?

Powergamz1 -> RE: From the other side of the world (12/15/2012 5:16:40 PM)
Given the Chinese government's past reticence to admit to any problems in other arenas, there is reason to suspect that these attacks are only the tip of the iceberg, and that even the admission that there is a social cause is telling. quote: ORIGINAL: stef quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Not as bad as the massacre at the school in CT today, but still this is unnerving. But according to the story, this is not the first such incident. Not even remotely. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_%282010%E2%80%932011%29 Sadly, people who want to lash out will always find the means, no matter what is banned or available.

thezeppo -> RE: From the other side of the world (12/15/2012 6:32:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn quote: ORIGINAL: thezeppo Since we are making assumptions I will say I know a lot more about violent video games than you, as I have actually played more than one. I bow in deference to your, Aswad's, and others' expertise in that realm. quote: Are you suggesting my original point is invalid because I used the word 'defence'? No. I just brought to attention that I was not "defending" cars, as you claimed. quote: The stated purpose for a computer game is something other than murder as well, that's why I made the comparison to begin with. Again, I bow to your expertise regarding violence-based video games, but as regards real wars or battles, someone usually get's killed, and that is what the games I see advertised are based upon, or the 'virtual' aspect of it, in any case. quote: As regards my original question about the beginning of the culture of violence, I agree its impossible to tell. So if we have always had a culture of violence, why is it only today's culture that is messing up our children? I cannot answer that in any definitive manner. But from my research in another matter, I can say that society is no more greedy than 'back in the day,' but we are certainly more wily and innovative, in whatever cause. The notion that 'more money (especially a superankerful of money to a select few) means that we must be smarter' brought us to the economic/financial straights we find ourselves in today. I could certainly be mistaken, but the notion that 'more violent video games makes us more peaceful' is not that much more of a reach. It's a matter of technology and innovation allowing us to amplify things already extant. Society has a choice as to what it wishes to promote, by whatever innovation. If people are more wily and innovative then surely they are less credible. If we have already agreed that violence in culture legitimises violent behaviours and you have said that you think violence in books and films is more detrimental than violence in games, then why are we still discussing this? I'm no great fan of COD and it's clones, but its millions of players are as capable as anyone else of separating reality from fiction. Do you seriously think that if all violent games were made unplayable then events such as we have seen recently would stop?

slvemike4u -> RE: From the other side of the world (12/15/2012 6:41:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen 22 injured children is a tragedy. 20 dead children is a cataclysm. This. If you can't understand why than you are blinded by your irrational love of guns.

Edwynn -> RE: From the other side of the world (12/15/2012 7:03:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thezeppo If people are more wily and innovative then surely they are less credible. If we have already agreed that violence in culture legitimises violent behaviours I never agreed to any such thing. quote: and you have said that you think violence in books and films is more detrimental than violence in games, I never said any such thing, not even close. quote: Do you seriously think that if all violent games were made unplayable then events such as we have seen recently would stop? Is that what I said? I can tell you one thing; your own display regarding separation of games from reality is not in evidence regarding your ability to separate what is going on in your head vs. what is actually being communicated.

Edwynn -> RE: From the other side of the world (12/15/2012 7:17:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stef Are you always this much of an idiot or have you been eating wall candy lately? Answer number three, actually. Listening to too much ABBA in early life, the band that Aswad disavows any knowledge of. So much like the original Mission Impossible TV series; "If you are caught or killed, or caught listening to ABBA, we will disavow any knowledge of your existence."

Aswad -> RE: From the other side of the world (12/15/2012 7:32:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn Listening to too much ABBA in early life, the band that Aswad disavows any knowledge of. I don't disavow knowledge. I just ain't much for ABBA, s'all. How's about we go for Vidar Busk (link) instead? IWYW, — Aswad.

Edwynn -> RE: From the other side of the world (12/15/2012 8:27:09 PM)
I understand completely, regarding ABBA. Nice video (Herr Busk), but I'm somewhat been past the blues for a few years, now. The intro did remind me of Janis Joplin's rendition of Gershwin's Summertime. He's an excellent player, no question. Not many people would play Blue Cheer and ABBA within the same hour, as I have. I don't know if anybody bought a Monkees album and a Fugs album within the same year, as I did. I am not a normal person. I stand here in evidence that there are things other than video games that can inordinately twist one's world view.

slvemike4u -> RE: From the other side of the world (12/15/2012 9:01:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn Listening to too much ABBA in early life, the band that Aswad disavows any knowledge of. I don't disavow knowledge. I just ain't much for ABBA, s'all. How's about we go for Vidar Busk (link) instead? IWYW, — Aswad. I've finally found something that I can wholeheartedly agree with Aswad over....and the respite from CNN and these threads was much appreciated...as well as needed. Thank you,he's quite good,and has gone few quite a few "changes" over the years ,eh?

thezeppo -> RE: From the other side of the world (12/16/2012 12:53:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn quote: ORIGINAL: thezeppo If people are more wily and innovative then surely they are less credible. If we have already agreed that violence in culture legitimises violent behaviours I never agreed to any such thing. quote: and you have said that you think violence in books and films is more detrimental than violence in games, I never said any such thing, not even close. quote: Do you seriously think that if all violent games were made unplayable then events such as we have seen recently would stop? Is that what I said? I can tell you one thing; your own display regarding separation of games from reality is not in evidence regarding your ability to separate what is going on in your head vs. what is actually being communicated. Ah, once again I am having comprehension problems. It seems to be a common theme with people trying to find any substance whatsoever in the smoke you keep putting out. First it's 'violence video games, plain and simple' that are the problem. Then we have 'violence novels --> violence films --> violence games' (that was your 'climb down' remember?). Now we are back on computer games. Maybe I would have an easier job of comprehending if you managed to hold the same opinion for three consecutive minutes.

thezeppo -> RE: From the other side of the world (12/16/2012 3:37:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn I am not a normal person. I stand here in evidence that there are things other than video games that can inordinately twist one's world view. I should point out that the only thing that drew me into this conversation in the first place was that you blamed modern video games for children growing up thinking violence is the solution, as far as I can tell on the basis that you were once physically attacked by a member of your family. In your head you have found a correlation between the two, but you shouldn't insult others comprehension skills just because you have zero further evidence to back up your assertions. Of course modern video games could play a contributory role in exacerbating a previously existing mental condition, but we have already talked about violence in computer games in the context of violence in culture. So why are we still here? Why don't you stop insulting my ability to comprehend thin air and actually say something that has some relevance to your initial assertion?

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