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The Things We Own.... - 6/17/2006 3:42:01 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I have this philosophy about owning things. The things I possess end up possessing me. The more you own, the more effort you must put forward to keep it. You end up working for possessions instead of them working for you. I prefer to be rather careful about what I own because of this.

I am presently developing a new dynamic, and the conversation about materialism switched into D/s dynamic between us. I asked him (because he feels the same as I do about "owning things") "If our possessions own us, and a dominant owns a submissive, then does the submissive end up possessing the dominant in the end?"

It takes a tremendous effort to own another human being. It takes work. It is in that context I ask all of you.. Do you think that there is any truth your possessions (in this case a submissive) own you?

Edited for grammar

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 6/17/2006 3:43:57 PM >

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RE: The Things We Own.... - 6/17/2006 3:56:43 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

It takes a tremendous effort to own another human being. It takes work. It is in that context I ask all of you.. Do you think that there is any truth your possessions (in this case a submissive) own you?

Not personally.  I've seen it happen with others.  I think it comes from people looking for those possessions to validate them, fulfill them, make them happy.  Hence the obsessive behavior regarding them.  I don't view possessions that way.  I enjoy my books, I own a lot of them, but they aren't a status symbol for me.  I read them because I enjoy them, but it isn't the owning of them that makes me happy.  Same thing with a slave.  I want a slave, a slave can contribute to my life, improve it and make it more enjoyable.  But I don't need a slave, I don't look to her to make me happy.  Bit of a cruel burden to put on a slave, to make them responsible for your happiness.

So no, a slave I own does not end up owning me.  She may become a treasure and a prize, someone I'm fond of and even love.  But she's not responsible for my happines, she isn't a status symbol, and she doesn't validate my existence.  In short, I can get along just fine without a slave (and do).  But that's just me, YMMV.

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A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: The Things We Own.... - 6/17/2006 4:04:35 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		My interpretation of the OP is a bit different from Padriag's.  For me, yes, my possessions own me in part.  For example, I have a computer (Well duh!  I'm typing on it right now)  I would like nothing more than to have a computer which takes no work, but alas, I don't.  Every few hours, a warning pops up that this is out of date, or that could be upgraded, or whatever.

I want simple.  My computer sits on my desk and is ALWAYS on.  Sometimes, it shuts down to do some random upgrade, and I get to go looking for all of the files and pages I had open.  I don't want upgrades, I want it to do what it always has.

In similar ways, anything we own creates work.  A table needs to be wiped down, a car needs oil changes, clothes need washing, etc...  if I don't do these things, I will soon own a lot of garbage, which needs to be disposed of. 

In the end, I make my life simple, knowing that a lot of things are more work and worry than they're worth.

So yes, julia, I agree with you.

Yours,


benji

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RE: The Things We Own.... - 6/17/2006 4:07:02 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I have this philosophy about owning things. The things I possess end up possessing me. The more you own, the more effort you must put forward to keep it. You end up working for possessions instead of them working for you. I prefer to be rather careful about what I own because of this.

I am presently developing a new dynamic, and the conversation about materialism switched into D/s dynamic between us. I asked him (because he feels the same as I do about "owning things") "If our possessions own us, and a dominant owns a submissive, then does the submissive end up possessing the dominant in the end?"

It takes a tremendous effort to own another human being. It takes work. It is in that context I ask all of you.. Do you think that there is any truth your possessions (in this case a submissive) own you?

Edited for grammar


I don't like having to look after * things* ...so try to choose things that need little care..... even my children are *self-raising* .......lol.........As for my Master .....I absolutely, catagorically don't own him in any way at all....and it is damn irritating and great at the same time.

agirl

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RE: The Things We Own.... - 6/17/2006 4:11:21 PM   
LadiesBladewing


Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline 		I think it's true... any time you claim ownership, with that comes responsibility. At the same time, when talking about owning people, I sometimes feel that it disempowers the individual who is being "owned". We've been looking for an alternative way of expressing our relationship with our servants, but haven't had any brilliant ideas so far.

Lady Abbess ZWD

< Message edited by LadiesBladewing -- 6/17/2006 4:14:15 PM >

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RE: The Things We Own.... - 6/17/2006 4:16:47 PM   
iliv2servher


Posts: 228
Joined: 5/17/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

[snip]

"If our possessions own us, and a dominant owns a submissive, then does the submissive end up possessing the dominant in the end?"



Read the end of Story of O, in which the slave ends up owning her master, in a manner of speaking.

quote:



It takes a tremendous effort to own another human being. It takes work. It is in that context I ask all of you.. Do you think that there is any truth your possessions (in this case a submissive) own you?

Edited for grammar


I totally agree with you and your view of possessions, and I've spent my whole life collecting THINGS.  And not necessarily junk, but houses, automobiles, electronic gear, you name it! But they were never as important as my relationships with other human beings.  And yes, you can be held hostage to those possessions very easily.

I prefer not to mix material possessions with the love of another human being (which does include BDSM and D/S in the equation).  I also believe that we do not own anything, because we can't take whatever it is with us when we die.  If you look at a submissive or slave in the romantic sense, then I suppose they could be considered property, but to equate a human being with some other material possession is like mixing apples and oranges. 

Once again, only my opinion.

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RE: The Things We Own.... - 6/17/2006 4:22:13 PM   
Sab


Posts: 325
Joined: 5/2/2006
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I can't qualify the OP - do you mean the ownership of another or of objects or the objectification of a person? 

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RE: The Things We Own.... - 6/17/2006 4:26:22 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		Possessions are a curse, I would love to have the guts to dispose of all my possessions but for a few clothes.

At least once a year I like to take a month off and just travel around on public transport or foot with just a small rucksack on my back with a change of clothes and a toothbrush and little else and keeping to a budget. It's not really authentic though because I have my credit cards but I come back feeling mentally cleansed.

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RE: The Things We Own.... - 6/17/2006 4:29:49 PM   
Emperor1956


Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		julia, you and your partner should read "Hooked", a wonderful book published by Shambala Press which is a collection of essays by 17 modern Bhuddist teachers about materialism and consumerism.  "A book about consumerism that goes to the very heart of the matter—that it corrodes our precious human capacities to know truth, see beauty, and feel love."

It is eye-opening, and very thoughtful.  Something you will appreciate (and rare in these here parts).

E.

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

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RE: The Things We Own.... - 6/17/2006 4:47:16 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Yes Benji, I think you got the gist of my OP very well. My computer owns me too, lol.

Thank you emperor... I will look into that book and it sounds like something both of us would thoroughly enjoy!

And meatcleaver.... at this point my penniless existence is not an act, although I do have clothing and a few trinkets, some even have value.. but I have nothing that I couldnt dispose of on a whim except a couple of boxes of antique glass my mom gave me... and yes they own me...lol.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: The Things We Own.... - 6/17/2006 5:06:26 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		To me, it's not about being something I'm not, as I have the unbelievable luck to be born into a family where money has never been an issue.  I don't wish I was born with less, nor do I want to pretend for a month a year that I am poor. 

I have come to terms with my own financial situation, and am happy with it.  Very few people know of it in real life, because I don't flaunt what I have.  I live comfortably, own what I need and use what I own, and avoid the consumerish rush for brands and novelty.

That is what I need for my balance.  Not pretending to be something, but embracing what I have and being reasonable about it.

For anyone who knows Pulp, they have a great song called Common People...  well worth listening to...

Yours,


benji

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RE: The Things We Own.... - 6/17/2006 5:33:14 PM   
Littlepita


Posts: 1430
Joined: 10/6/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Possessions are a curse, I would love to have the guts to dispose of all my possessions but for a few clothes.


I did this when I divorced and moved to a new state to live with my Dom. At first it was hard because my things were my things and I wanted them. But, as the months went on and I started getting rid of more and more it became liberating. I ended up moving here with only a few boxes of stuff that actually "meant" something to me.

As to me "owning" my Dom. I don't know. Maybe in a sense I do. I love him and he is mine. I won't share him or give him up. I expect him to own, protect, love and dominate me. Whatever it means, it works and I love it!!

_____________________________

“I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” – Anais Nin

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RE: The Things We Own.... - 6/17/2006 6:33:58 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		I think it is the word "own" and its connotations in our context of owning being an act of dominance and being owned, one of submission.

Having possessions creates responsibility.  The more possessions, the more responsibilities I have and being responsible takes time.  I am not owned by my car, but if I don't take care of it, it will become junk.  I have to spend time making sure it has oil, its innards are in tune, I don't leave the windows down in the rain, etc. all of which take time. 

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RE: The Things We Own.... - 6/17/2006 6:45:35 PM   
JassWolf


Posts: 59
Joined: 4/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Littlepita

As to me "owning" my Dom. I don't know. Maybe in a sense I do. I love him and he is mine. I won't share him or give him up. I expect him to own, protect, love and dominate me.


Thank God we're on the same page with that one, pita!

And yes, she does "own" me ... it's in the damn contract, though we titled it my (dominant) "promise."

The first I know of the theme raised in the OP is the first two chapters of "Walden" (HD Thoreau, 1847) where he takes his Concord neighbors to task for letting their property own them and he urges them to liberate themselves by simplifying -- it was a revolutionary thought in the 19th C, but one that is still compelling (and I'm sure I just gave lots of folk PTSD of college lit classes) even though the Marxists made it seem corrupt.

For me, I could easily relate it to my computer or car ... but I won't make the same reference to my relationships. On CM we use the metaphor of "property" often to explain a BDSM relationship, and while pita and I own one another, and take it literally, it is a two-way street ... and human beings are capable of being dynamic ... I don't think the analogy holds. She "owns" me only because she provides me with the fulfillment of obedience, grace, and docility that I ask of only her ... not like I could find it at Best Buy, y'know? I own her, too, but in quite a different sense than I would a lawnmower.

JW

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The greater part of what my neighbors call good I believe in my soul to be bad, and if I repent of anything, it is very likely to be my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well? -- Thoreau

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RE: The Things We Own.... - 6/17/2006 6:51:09 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Having possessions creates responsibility.  The more possessions, the more responsibilities I have and being responsible takes time. 


Hello A/all,

I am not sure I agree with this sentiment, although it makes perfect sense that if I buy a widget at K-mart I will have to take care of it
and that takes time.

For me, notwithstanding religious or metaphysical constructs where an individual's time is not limited to their physicality, I tend to take a Zen view of things.  Yesterday is a memory, and the things which happened yesterday may be resident in some part of my head, but from a limbic system perspective (which lacks a concept of time) these things exist in the here and now.  Tomorrow may not happen, or may end up being something which is completely unforeseeable and I am faced with an "adapt or perish" problem.

So what I am left with is this moment in time that I exist in right now.
Everything in my life may be ephemeral, as I may be ephemeral.  But when my child was in a car accident (minor, I came to find out), the only thing I gave a rat's rear end about was whether she was ok.  To summarize, I dont really care much for material objects, but I deeply treasure the relationships I have with other living creatures.  While a car may or may not know it's time in this place is limited, I tend to think that those of us who do know have a connection to each other.

So to further summarize, I tend to think that we all own each other. 

We all have our part to play on the stage of life.

Just me, could be wrong, etc.

Sinergy

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RE: The Things We Own.... - 6/17/2006 6:58:25 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Ownership is Power of Choice... I choose to own my house, my car, my computer, my slaves.  I choose to put the effort into maintain what I own to the level I expect them to be to substain my enjoyment or enhance it.  Last time I checked... the house, car and computer doesn't have a choice in the matter, no matter my choice in effort... they will still be mine. 

Now what about the human being..    Well living things do have a choice.  Be it a Dog or Cat or a Human Being.  They make the choice to be owned.  Each living being has a unique set of standards to be met to be owned.  Unlike the house, car or computer... living beings can go and choose and find a new owner or no owner if it feels you are not puttting in the right effort to maintain them. 

I also can choose how to use what I own.  Last time I checked the car doesn't decide to make me a passenger or my computer tell me to use them as a car.  I decide how to use it.  My slaves do not decide how I shall use them.  Like anything, thou, they come with set of skills, abilities and natural gifts.  I can only use a slave in the way it's designed with some latitude of course.  But, If I stray to far out of it's range.... like any living beinng... It will make a choice not to be owned by me.

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: The Things We Own.... - 6/17/2006 7:02:43 PM   
BreakMeShakeMe


Posts: 339
Joined: 6/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Ownership is Power of Choice... I choose to own my house, my car, my computer, my slaves.  I choose to put the effort into maintain what I own to the level I expect them to be to substain my enjoyment or enhance it.  Last time I checked... the house, car and computer doesn't have a choice in the matter, no matter my choice in effort... they will still be mine. 

Now what about the human being..    Well living things do have a choice.  Be it a Dog or Cat or a Human Being.  They make the choice to be owned.  Each living being has a unique set of standards to be met to be owned.  Unlike the house, car or computer... living beings can go and choose and find a new owner or no owner if it feels you are not puttting in the right effort to maintain them. 

I also can choose how to use what I own.  Last time I checked the car doesn't decide to make me a passenger or my computer tell me to use them as a car.  I decide how to use it.  My slaves do not decide how I shall use them.  Like anything, thou, they come with set of skills, abilities and natural gifts.  I can only use a slave in the way it's designed with some latitude of course.  But, If I stray to far out of it's range.... like any living beinng... It will make a choice not to be owned by me.


Nicely put KoM.. the wording and all... makes ya step back and think about how things really do work around you... again.. nicely put.

Jessica


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RE: The Things We Own.... - 6/17/2006 7:38:42 PM   
talibahh


Posts: 389
Joined: 4/9/2006
From: NSW Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Ownership is Power of Choice... I choose to own my house, my car, my computer, my slaves.  I choose to put the effort into maintain what I own to the level I expect them to be to substain my enjoyment or enhance it.  Last time I checked... the house, car and computer doesn't have a choice in the matter, no matter my choice in effort... they will still be mine. 

Now what about the human being..    Well living things do have a choice.  Be it a Dog or Cat or a Human Being.  They make the choice to be owned.  Each living being has a unique set of standards to be met to be owned.  Unlike the house, car or computer... living beings can go and choose and find a new owner or no owner if it feels you are not puttting in the right effort to maintain them. 

I also can choose how to use what I own.  Last time I checked the car doesn't decide to make me a passenger or my computer tell me to use them as a car.  I decide how to use it.  My slaves do not decide how I shall use them.  Like anything, thou, they come with set of skills, abilities and natural gifts.  I can only use a slave in the way it's designed with some latitude of course.  But, If I stray to far out of it's range.... like any living beinng... It will make a choice not to be owned by me.



WOW!  KnightofMists... as always eloquently put and leaving me much food for thought...  thank You...
 
and great topic julia  making for very interesting reading...
 
tali goes away thinking...


edited to add.... i would be very interested to hear what LA has to say...

< Message edited by talibahh -- 6/17/2006 7:40:45 PM >

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in giving You my freedom, i gain the freedom to be me ...
~ tali ~

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RE: The Things We Own.... - 6/17/2006 8:49:25 PM   
Emperor1956


Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

have come to terms with my own financial situation, and am happy with it.  Very few people know of it in real life, because I don't flaunt what I have.  I live comfortably, own what I need and use what I own, and avoid the consumerish rush for brands and novelty.

That is what I need for my balance.  Not pretending to be something, but embracing what I have and being reasonable about it.


benji, I appreciate the frankness in this post, and I am going to be frank in return.  If you truly have come to terms with having wealth (and so few do) might I suggest that philanthropy and stewardship are two things that you must add to your life to reach the balance you talk about?  If you truly have wealth, you have the incredible good fortune to make change in this world, because money can (and does) change things, often on a great scale.  Philanthropy is of course just that -- using your wealth to make change.  Stewardship is preserving and conserving, not for your heirs necessarily, but for your peers, your society, ultimately for all those that follow you.

E.

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to gooddogbenji)
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RE: The Things We Own.... - 6/17/2006 9:06:20 PM   
Emperor1956


Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

JassWolf said:  The first I know of the theme raised in the OP is the first two chapters of "Walden" (HD Thoreau, 1847) where he takes his Concord neighbors to task for letting their property own them and he urges them to liberate themselves by simplifying -- it was a revolutionary thought in the 19th C, but one that is still compelling .


A brief historical note.  The issue of the corruption of the soul by materialism is far, far older than good old HDThoreau.  Confucious, Buddah (or the many buddahs, depending on how you read their scripture), numerous Jewish scholars of antiquity, the ancient Greeks (notably Pythagoras), Mohammed, Jesus and Baha'u'lah ALL address this.  I don't want to divert the thread so if you want a citation, ask Me off list.   Two quick aphorisms appear below.

Emperor

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." (Matthew 19:24)

"Religion and science are the two wings upon which man's intelligence
can soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress.  It
is not possible to fly with one wing alone!  Should a man try to fly
with the wing of religion alone he would quickly fall into the
quagmire of superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of
science alone he would also make no progress, but fall into the
despairing slough of materialism."  --`Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks,
p.143.




_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to JassWolf)
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