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RE: Did you know? - 12/20/2012 7:47:49 PM

erieangel

Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
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It was for a hunting rifle, not a handgun, but a little over a year ago I won a Remington pump action rifle at a "Hunt of a Lifetime" picnic. I had to go to Dick's Sporting Goods to pick it up. Since I have no interest in hunting (I only went to the picnic because it is a good cause, providing hunting and fishing trips to adolescents and children who have life-threatening illnesses) I decided to give the gun to my son. In PA, a quick background check is done for every firearm sold. And I mean "quick". My son filled out the form, checked "no" for the question about mental illness because he'd never been admitted to a State Hospital and 15 minutes later we were leaving with the rifle.

I found out then just how antiquated PA gun laws are. Legally, my son did not lie about his mental illness; he has bi-polar disorder. State law only wants to know if a person has ever been a patient in a state facility due to mental illness. But the state hospitals have been reducing population size and even totally closing for the past 20+ years. Where my county once was able to send just about anybody they wanted to the nearest state hospital, they are now limited to 20 beds. And that state hospital campus is a multi-acre facility with half a dozen buildings that used to also house a farm. Now only one building remains half populated. The hospital serves a total of 13 counties in NW PA.

PA's gun law about who can own a gun needs to be changed to reflect the reality that mentally ill people seldom go to the state hospital these days. But in such a way that it wouldn't keep my son from owning a gun, getting his hunting license or going to one of the target shooting fund raisers put on several times a year by Hunt of a Lifetime. My son did a gun safety class and was one of the only adults in his class.

I've read recently that in Japan it is very hard to legally get a gun. A person needs to "show a need" to have one in the house. They also must go to gun safety class and pass a test (which is held only 1X per month) and register with the police. In 2008, when the US saw more than 12,000 gun-related deaths, Japan had only 11. In '06 they had 2. And when they had 22 in '07, it became a national scandal. Of course, Japan is not violent-free. They have their weapons just like other countries with strict gun control laws. But it takes a hell of a lot more planning and desire to kill when it is up close and personal, as with a knife, than it does to fire a gun even from a few feet away.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

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RE: Did you know? - 12/20/2012 9:45:52 PM

adx

Posts: 102
Joined: 1/6/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

http://www.vpc.org/press/1205gunsvscars.htm
Nationally, there were 31,236 firearm deaths in 2009 and 36,361 motor vehicle deaths according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s National Center for Injury Prevention and Control.

Alaska: 104 gun deaths, 84 motor vehicle deaths

Arizona: 856 gun deaths, 809 motor vehicle deaths

Colorado: 583 gun deaths, 565 motor vehicle deaths

Indiana: 735 gun deaths, 715 motor vehicle deaths

Michigan: 1,095 gun deaths, 977 motor vehicle deaths

Nevada: 406 gun deaths, 255 motor vehicle deaths

Oregon: 417 gun deaths, 394 motor vehicle deaths

Utah: 260 gun deaths, 256 motor vehicle deaths

Virginia: 836 gun deaths, 827 motor vehicle deaths

Washington: 623 gun deaths, 580 motor vehicle deaths

the problem I always have with stats that talk about gun death is that they usually include suicides and justified shootings. Its not a popular position but I feel everyone a right to end it when they want so it may seem twisted but I see the fact that they had a easy way to do it a good thing.

(in reply to Lucylastic)

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RE: Did you know? - 12/20/2012 10:05:27 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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Really ?
I don't usually share this,but I feel an exception is in order.
My father was 45 when he put his pistol to his temple and blew his brains all over my mothers(and his) bedroom rug.
Now the reasons he did so are not germane,lets just say he found himself in a situation in which he felt the only way out was suicide.
That he would be doing his family a favor by doing so.
Now had the gun not been available,perhaps he would have had some time to think about things,had the gun not been available perhaps he would have survived whatever alternate method he had chosen.
See often suicide is nothing more than a permanent solution to what is actually a temporary situation.
Now your position,vis a vis suicide might be considered enlightened if we are discussing those with terminal diseases,elderly people whose health has declined to a point where life holds nothing but pain,all pleasures are in the rear view mirror and such.
But that's not the bulk of suicides,not even close....perhaps you aren't as enlightened as you think,maybe you just haven'y given this enough thought ?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to adx)

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Post #: 43

RE: Did you know? - 12/20/2012 10:11:12 PM

Powergamz1

Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
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There are 30,000 US suicides annually, that are obviously suicides. Some of them kill other people as a build-up to killing themselves, using guns, using cars, using other methods such as suicide by cop (justifiable).

And absent clear evidence of intent, we have no method of determining which particular dead driver in a pile of crumpled metal was a highway suicide. Likewise for an unknown percentage of 'accidental' deaths.

The 30K+ iceberg is at the intersection of gun deaths, auto deaths, and suicides.

quote:

ORIGINAL: adx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

http://www.vpc.org/press/1205gunsvscars.htm
Nationally, there were 31,236 firearm deaths in 2009 and 36,361 motor vehicle deaths according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s National Center for Injury Prevention and Control.

Alaska: 104 gun deaths, 84 motor vehicle deaths

Arizona: 856 gun deaths, 809 motor vehicle deaths

Colorado: 583 gun deaths, 565 motor vehicle deaths

Indiana: 735 gun deaths, 715 motor vehicle deaths

Michigan: 1,095 gun deaths, 977 motor vehicle deaths

Nevada: 406 gun deaths, 255 motor vehicle deaths

Oregon: 417 gun deaths, 394 motor vehicle deaths

Utah: 260 gun deaths, 256 motor vehicle deaths

Virginia: 836 gun deaths, 827 motor vehicle deaths

Washington: 623 gun deaths, 580 motor vehicle deaths

the problem I always have with stats that talk about gun death is that they usually include suicides and justified shootings. Its not a popular position but I feel everyone a right to end it when they want so it may seem twisted but I see the fact that they had a easy way to do it a good thing.

_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to adx)

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Post #: 44

RE: Did you know? - 12/21/2012 3:21:30 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

And absent clear evidence of intent, we have no method of determining which particular dead driver in a pile of crumpled metal was a highway suicide. Likewise for an unknown percentage of 'accidental' deaths.

Come on, forensics can establish for the most part intent being present or absent, simply because in accidents people are unaware of colliding actions or are trying to avoid them. People with intent to kill, usually don't try to hide the fact but rather want to broadcast it.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 12/21/2012 3:22:01 AM >

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Post #: 45

RE: Did you know? - 12/21/2012 9:00:51 AM

Powergamz1

Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
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I already addressed obvious suicides.

The fact remains that the actual number of suicides is higher than the published number, and the epidemic of suicides is part of the nexus leading to these episodes of mass violence.

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

And absent clear evidence of intent, we have no method of determining which particular dead driver in a pile of crumpled metal was a highway suicide. Likewise for an unknown percentage of 'accidental' deaths.

Come on, forensics can establish for the most part intent being present or absent, simply because in accidents people are unaware of colliding actions or are trying to avoid them. People with intent to kill, usually don't try to hide the fact but rather want to broadcast it.

< Message edited by Powergamz1 -- 12/21/2012 9:01:41 AM >

_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to meatcleaver)

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Post #: 46

RE: Did you know? - 12/21/2012 10:45:48 AM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel
I've read recently that in Japan it is very hard to legally get a gun. A person needs to "show a need" to have one in the house. They also must go to gun safety class and pass a test (which is held only 1X per month) and register with the police. In 2008, when the US saw more than 12,000 gun-related deaths, Japan had only 11. In '06 they had 2. And when they had 22 in '07, it became a national scandal. Of course, Japan is not violent-free. They have their weapons just like other countries with strict gun control laws. But it takes a hell of a lot more planning and desire to kill when it is up close and personal, as with a knife, than it does to fire a gun even from a few feet away.

Japan has very stringent gun control, even by non American standards.
Of course, the low murder rate there makes it an unappealing example to trot out when you're blathering about how if guns are banned, only criminals will have guns, and people will still get shot.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Did you know? - 12/21/2012 10:56:15 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

I already addressed obvious suicides.

The fact remains that the actual number of suicides is higher than the published number, and the epidemic of suicides is part of the nexus leading to these episodes of mass violence.

You make an awful ot of assumptions in that one sentence without a shred of evidence other than your own prejudies.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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Post #: 48

RE: Did you know? - 12/21/2012 2:08:01 PM

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