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Zonie63 -> RE: US supporting freedom and democracy? US against terrorism? (12/28/2012 7:13:35 PM)
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ORIGINAL: ermood
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What goals? To spread democracy? To make more money for American corporations? Or is it just for the glory of victory?
Creating some form of puppet states, and restoring peace are their biggest failures of the wars.
If those were the goals of the U.S. government in our recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, then I would agree that they have failed in achieving those goals. As far as restoring peace to that region, other nations have tried and failed as well. It's a volatile region, seemingly in a state of perpetual war and struggle.
You win some, you lose some.
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Okay, I see what you mean now. The U.S. might be facing bankruptcy soon, although I think that we can still recover.
The US could certanly recover but not in the way how it goes now... the only thing that is happening is that they put the debtroof higher and higher, in the end the rest of the world will stop that.
If the US would retreat all of its troops in forgein countries it would save tons of money already, Also when they would stop some of these useless boycots of them.
Well, I agree completely, although I'm somewhat of an isolationist, so I think that America should refrain from any foreign entanglements or permanent alliances. That view hasn't been very well-received in the United States during my lifetime, although it was the cornerstone of U.S. foreign policy up until World War II. After that, everything changed.
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I suppose it would depend on what you mean by "listen to the U.S."
It's quite clear that many around the world are taking great efforts just to get the attention of the U.S., whether it involves demonstrations at U.S. embassies around the world or more aggressive violent actions directed against American citizens, American property, or American military facilities. Their biggest complaint seems to be that Americans aren't listening to them, not the other way around. Americans are often chastised for not knowing enough about geography or much else about the outside world, while more non-Americans seem to know an awful lot about America (or claim to). Not to mention how much they eat up American music, movies, TV shows, McDonalds, Disneyland, Las Vegas, Hollywood.
I won't deny that America is falling, although I wouldn't say "rapidly." It only seems that way because we've been falling for decades and it's only now that more people are starting to take notice.
True, the US is falling since the cold war, and yes its now that people and countries stand up against the US policy's.
We (from outside the US) know that lots of US people are kind of blind when it comes to other countries then the US, but the major problem is that they stay blind even when the outside world sends a message... they oftenly don't watch the problem from the other side than that one from the US.
I don't know where the problem is in the matter of knowing/intrests in other countries, but its something the US should care about, especially since the US became the major power on earth.
I see what you're saying, although I would take exception with painting the outside world with a single brush regarding their attitudes towards America. While every country might have a certain relationship with America and an opinion about such, it seems to be rather different depending on which country or region we're talking about. So, the message the "outside world" might be sending us may be quite different, depending on whether it's coming from the Netherlands, the UK, Russia, China, Vietnam, Iran, Mexico - or anywhere else in the world.
I would also suggest that the U.S. has been falling since before the end of the Cold War. The reasons for this are rather deep and complex, but suffice it to say, as we became more and more heavily involved in the outside world, we began to look at ourselves quite differently.
I don't think America's fall will necessarily be permanent, though. Perhaps in 50-100 years, we may be back and stronger than ever, probably a country run by AI (with Majel Barrett as the computer voice of America, of course). [;)]
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Well, of course, our fear of Russia and Communism has driven U.S. policy since 1917, decades before they had any nukes. This fear pushed us into many directions, some of which has to do with the list you posted in your OP. U.S. apologists might argue that the reason for all those coups and incursions around the world was so that we could avoid a direct confrontation with the Soviets which might have led to a worldwide nuclear war.
And yes, there was good reason for the U.S. to fear Russia. Did the Russians fear the U.S.?
That is what geopolitical warfare is all about, gaining allies, creating coups and uprisings in your enemy's allies... and yes Russia did that to.
Mostly the US feared Communism, not Russia to be exact. I really don't know why actually... communism isn't a bad ideology at all, but it has to be set with a real communist leader (not one like stalin).
I think that the U.S. feared communism, yes. But there was also some fear of Russia itself, the largest country on Earth, with a large population and resource base.
As to why the U.S. feared communism, clearly U.S. capitalists would have cause to fear and oppose communism. The working classes probably feared communism more out of religious sentiment, especially in earlier eras of U.S. history. Working people might have gone along with the economic ideals of communism, but not the social, cultural, and religious positions held by communists. That's where they faced some strong resistance. It just didn't play well in Peoria, as the saying goes.
As far as ideologies go, I suppose one can argue the positives and negatives of communism, keeping in mind that communism can come in many different brands. In its purest form, perhaps on a purely abstract theoretical plane, it seems okay, but then, so would many other ideologies, including capitalism.
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And yes i do believe the Russians feared the US, they where both the major powers in the world, if hell would brake loose it would be devastating, but to look at each of them differently i do think that the US had more to fear than Russia had.
I think that even before the Communist Revolution in 1917, the relationship between Russia and the U.S. was starting to deteriorate. Neither country had much cause to fear each other, though. We knew that Russia was tied up with other things along their own borders and their own area of the world, while Russia knew that, given the world situation at the time, the U.S. was really the least of their worries.
I remember the big fear during the Cold War was that the Russians vastly outnumbered us in Europe and could have easily poured over the border and taken over Western Europe rather quickly. It was believed that the only way to prevent that would be a nuclear deterrent. But would the Russians have done that? If the U.S. had not kept troops and nukes in Europe, would the Russians have seen that as an opportunity to invade all of Europe? U.S. policymakers were convinced that that's what the Russians would do if we let our guard down, and that's what compelled our government to do many of the things it did.
Maybe both sides were a bit overly cautious and rather paranoid about each other, each thinking that the other was going to attack at a moment's notice.
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