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Liberal Gun Advocates - 12/20/2012 6:54:47 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		One of the self-care pillars of my online life is not discussing guns, and this thread will probably give a renewed sense of the wisdom of that policy. But I can't resist raising a question that's simmered on my back burner for years and is bubbling a bit louder due to recent events and threads.

Every so often, I've noticed, posters who generally skew left take up for guns and seemingly unlimited ownership of them with a striking degree of gusto. They seem particularly eager to (I can't resist) outgun the NRA itself in pouring ridicule on the very mention of gun control.

Now I'm not disputing anyone's First Amendment rights (nor Second, I'd better add hastily), but the psychology of the situation intrigues me. Might it, I wonder, be a reaction to conservatives' skill over the past few decades at painting liberals as softer, gentler, more prone to salmon than red meat? Remember Spiro Agnew's "effete, East Coast, pseudo-intellectual snobs"? (The phrasing was actually Willaim Safire's, I think, but I digress effetely.)

Underlying all that, of course, is the notion that liberals are, well, unmanly--just plain sissies even.

Against that backdrop, is clamoring like an Idaho hunter for the right to own and use something that's long, hard, round, and shoots a way of saying, "Bring on the beer and the beef! I'm just as much a man as you are!"?

Anyone else ever wonder about this?





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RE: Liberal Gun Advocates - 12/20/2012 7:16:25 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		I've noticed it too, DC, but my take is that guns and gun rights simply don't divide into the neat little left vs. right boxes required by the Alinksy template (all the angels on one side, all the devils on the other).

On one these gun threads (God knows I don't bother keeping track of them) I suggested that gun owning democrats operate based on a similar rationalization about Democrats and gun control, to the one I have operated under regarding Republicans and abortion. It ain't gonna happen, so just ignore the bullshit.

The administration's eagerness to not let a tragedy go to waste in pushing the second term agenda they could never publicly acknowledge, seems to have a few of them regretting that they swilled the kool-aid.

If the administration pushes too far, those people will turn, and the '14 midterm will make '10 look like a mild scolding.



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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Liberal Gun Advocates - 12/20/2012 7:32:23 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		My father was a Democrat... so were my grandfathers.... and all owned guns. I find it humorous that so many believe its a leftist position to ban all guns.



As evidenced, its not just Democrats who favor such a position, and no party carries a majority in favor of banning things like handguns.

Srtawman argument at best

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 12/20/2012 7:33:53 PM >

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RE: Liberal Gun Advocates - 12/20/2012 7:45:20 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

I've noticed it too, DC, but my take is that guns and gun rights simply don't divide into the neat little left vs. right boxes required by the Alinksy template (all the angels on one side, all the devils on the other).

I think you're right about guns not being a tidy left/right issue.

I do believe this is the first time Alinsky's made an appearance in onj of my threads. I've finally made the P&R big leagues!

Not long ago, a key tenet of U.S. foreign policy seemed to be "You're either with us, or you're against us." I'm pretty sure that was not a Democratic administration.


_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Liberal Gun Advocates - 12/20/2012 7:51:32 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

My father was a Democrat... so were my grandfathers.... and all owned guns. I find it humorous that so many believe its a leftist position to ban all guns.

I don't actually believe that. I was just exploring what struck me as an interesting dynamic here in our little corner of cyberspace.


quote:

Srtawman argument at best

This may also be my first time getting the S-word, but I'm less sure about that. Just in case, though: Woohoo! Definitely in the majors now.


* * *


Previewing the thread, I came across my best Freudian slip in ages: a reference to "our litter corner of cyberspace." Took all my editorial discipline to fix that one!


_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Liberal Gun Advocates - 12/20/2012 7:59:28 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		lol... I didnt mean you... I meant the argument that all those who want guns banned are leftists.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Liberal Gun Advocates - 12/20/2012 8:00:06 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		Reagan was a big supporter of the 1994 assault weapons ban. He even co-wrote a NYT op-ed with Carter and Ford in favor of it. He also wrote republicans members of Congress to urge them to vote it. Gingrich, who claims to be a Reagan-ite, voted against the ban.

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RE: Liberal Gun Advocates - 12/20/2012 8:05:34 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

lol... I didnt mean you... I meant the argument that all those who want guns banned are leftists.

LOL! Oh, okay.

I'm a little loopy after a medical double-header: MRI in the morning + epidural in the afternoon = goofy threads in the evening. Neither actually hurt, but the combo was oddly draining.



_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Liberal Gun Advocates - 12/20/2012 8:14:43 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
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Status: offline 		I have met Mikhail Kalishnikov (designer of the AK), i worked for the largest legal private machinegun dealer in the US, have access to all sorts of exotic weaponry, hell, i have the abikity to build.legal AKs and other stuff.

My two most treasured guns, ones i almost always take with me when i shoot are two little .22 "boys" rifles. One is a 1920's single shot miniature version of a British WWI army rifle made by BSA, same one that made the motorcyles. The other is a single shot Stevens that my father gave when i was a kid. It looks kinda like a cowboy rifle that kids used to put food on the table during the depression.


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RE: Liberal Gun Advocates - 12/20/2012 8:20:14 PM   
cloudboy


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quote:

I've noticed it too, DC, but my take is that guns and gun rights simply don't divide into the neat little left vs. right boxes required by the Alinksy template (all the angels on one side, all the devils on the other).


But the odds vary significantly based on the political identity of the child�s parents. If they identify as Democratic voters, the chances are only about one in four, or 25 percent, that they have a gun in their home. But the chances are more than twice that, almost 60 percent, if they are Republicans.Whether someone owns a gun is a more powerful predictor of a person�s political party than her gender, whether she identifies as gay or lesbian, whether she is Hispanic, whether she lives in the South or a number of other demographic characteristics.It will come as no surprise to those with a passing interest in American politics that Republicans are more likely to own guns than Democrats. But the differences have become much more stark in recent years, with gun ownership having become one of the clearest examples of the partisan polarization in the country over the last two decades.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: Liberal Gun Advocates - 12/20/2012 8:22:07 PM   
cloudboy


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Still waiting for you to pony up a solution, if any, to gun violence.

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RE: Liberal Gun Advocates - 12/20/2012 8:29:32 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Every so often, I've noticed, posters who generally skew left take up for guns and seemingly unlimited ownership of them with a striking degree of gusto. They seem particularly eager to (I can't resist) outgun the NRA itself in pouring ridicule on the very mention of gun control.




No, I just put it down to their being*American* posters, DC.

American political culture is like no other in the English-speaking world and this is never so evident as when the matters of a) religion or b) guns comes into the foreground. The most right wing of us non-Americans suddenly feel like lefties when Americans kick off on either of these subjects. Seriously.

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RE: Liberal Gun Advocates - 12/20/2012 8:29:45 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
Anyone else ever wonder about this?

I take my positions according to a set of measures which are good enough for me. They just don't happen to line up very well with the measures we are told to use by the powers that be. So yes, sometimes my positions look "left" and other times "right". In real life, both of those distinctions are pointless to me since I don't care about that particular divide. I never bought one of the red or blue jersey's.

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RE: Liberal Gun Advocates - 12/20/2012 8:29:49 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		My parents supplied guns to the black panthers, long.line of liberals here.

< Message edited by SimplyMichael -- 12/20/2012 8:39:44 PM >

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: Liberal Gun Advocates - 12/20/2012 8:36:34 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

My two most treasured guns, ones i almost always take with me when i shoot are two little .22 "boys" rifles. One is a 1920's single shot miniature version of a British WWI army rifle made by BSA, same one that made the motorcyles. The other is a single shot Stevens that my father gave when i was a kid. It looks kinda like a cowboy rifle that kids used to put food on the table during the depression.




Jesus Christ.

I wonder, is it possible that CollarMe could set up a forum for gun-fans? I've stopped even reading the posts of certain contributors because they drone on so much about the guns that they own.

Honestly, Michael - it's not just you. The gun-fans here just bore the testicles off me. It's like those people who grind on about the car or motorbike that they own, to me. No offence.


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RE: Liberal Gun Advocates - 12/20/2012 8:57:35 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Still waiting for you to pony up a solution, if any, to gun violence.


I have actually said, in detail, what is needed to be done to end gun violence, everyone gives me shit about it.

We dont need to ban or eliminate guns, we need to ban or eliminate people, cause if they dont use a gun, they will use something to kill each other. If you want someone to blame, blame Cain.

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RE: Liberal Gun Advocates - 12/20/2012 8:58:15 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice


I do believe this is the first time Alinsky's made an appearance in onj of my threads. I've finally made the P&R big leagues!




DC, you've been in a league of your own for quite some time (and that is meant in the nicest way )



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to dcnovice)
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RE: Liberal Gun Advocates - 12/20/2012 9:13:45 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
The gun-fans here just bore the testicles off me. It's like those people who grind on about the car or motorbike that they own, to me. No offence.




Holy crap, Peon! We agree on something!

Of course, I do own guns, and I do own them because they are good tools for killing, when a need to kill comes up, so I suspect it won't happen again anytime soon.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Liberal Gun Advocates - 12/20/2012 9:16:01 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		I own guns cause I think Heretic might try to attack my home to still my recipe for bar-be-que sauce.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Liberal Gun Advocates - 12/20/2012 9:19:09 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Mommie was a commie, and there is a six-shooter 4 feet from where I'm sitting, Cloudboy.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 20
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