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How much responsibility do we bear for our own and our ... - 12/23/2012 6:18:20 AM

kalikshama

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Inspired by this exchange:

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ORIGINAL: yourdarkdesire

I admit I cried a bucketful today. As many of you know, my little girl is a type 1 diabetic. The new Omnipod insulin pump, is a totally tubeless system. Only one problem. $6300. We just don't have that kind of money. Hubby's insurance will cover $4000. But it is still a lot of money and come tax refund time, I desperately need a safe vehicle to drive. Well, last night after my birthday dinner, while I was in the grocery store, my BIL, offered to write us a check for what the insurance doesn't cover. God does exist, and angels come in human form too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: L8bloomer

I admit it I am baffled that the mother of a child with type I diabetes would feed her Lucky Charms and chocolate milk for breakfast.

I admit it I can't help think what awful eating habits that is setting up for any child, to be provided that type of breakfast.

quote:

ORIGINAL: L8bloomer

quote:

ORIGINAL: yourdarkdesire

That sounds like ignorance speaking.

I admit it I am shaking my head because you are so wrong.

I admit it I know Lucky Charms are not part of a well balanced breakfast. It's crap food. If your child refuses to eat anything else, that is the habit you formed with her.

The link? That was to your own post.

I admit it I know that kids aren't born with a sweet tooth but it becomes something they learn to crave through the poor choices parents make for them.

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RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and ... - 12/23/2012 6:26:09 AM

kalikshama

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I would fire any medical professional who said it was fine to feed my diabetic child Lucky Charms, but then, I wouldn't have it in the house in the first place.

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RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and ... - 12/23/2012 6:51:04 AM

calamitysandra

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As with parental responsibility for most things in a childs life, the answer varies depending on a lot of factors.
Most noticeable the age of the child and its maturity.

My personal policy is to hand over responsibility more and more as my sons mature, erring on the side of allowing them to make their decisions themselves as opposed to keeping the power solely in my hands. Of course, during that process I offer guidance and make my opinion known, but I do allow them their own experiences and mistakes.
I truly believe that it would be disastrous to make all decisions, especially the important ones, for them, and when they turn 18 to just expect them to be magically able to handle their life themselves.

For example, Oldest, who has just turned 13, was the one who made the decision to have surgery to fill a bone cyst in his calcareous this upcoming January. He conferred with his surgeon, who explained all his options carefully, searched out more information alone and together with me, then he took time to ponder what he had learned and opted for the procedure.
While I, too, would have opted for the operation, I would have gone for a different version. But I do believe that it was his call to make, as it is his body and he has the maturity, and was provided the knowledge he needed to decide for himself.

Now, at what point in your childs life you should hand over which responsibilities is not something anybody else can decide. That depends solely on the kid in question and should be decided by those people who know the child best.

Part of handing over this responsibility is teaching a child to ask questions of the appropriate professionals, listen to the answers, then go ahead and search out more opinions, and get all the relevant information together.
As should be done by any adult making a medical decision for a child, or for the adult him/herself, too.

As for the Lucky Charms, well, as a everyday option surely not, be the child healthy or diabetic, but as a treat? Absolutely.

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RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and ... - 12/23/2012 7:52:22 AM

needlesandpins

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eating habits all come from the parents and what they allow. my boy and step son taught me that. my step son suddenly turned into a horror at eating.....why?.....because his lazy arse mother let him. i was too tough to allow him to carry it on at my house. you eat what you are given because i know you like it, or you don't eat. if you don't eat you go hungry, if you are hungry then eat what you are given.

his bad habbits started to rub off on my son until i kicked that to the kerb too. my step son wouldn't try new things either saying he didn't like it and it made him sick. he'd even try to make himself sick to prove the point. i would tell him 'you are being stupid and i'm not falling for it. the reason you are being stupid is because you don't know whether you like it or not. if you tried it you'd know for sure. just think that you could actually be missing out on something you actually love.' i told my son the same thing; try it and if you really don't like it then cool, but until you try it i don't believe you.' my son learnt that actually trying new foods was fun, and to make it that way we would go shopping and choose things that he had never had before. i made an example of doing the same with different fish i'd never had and so on.

one of my best friends is like my sister as i've looked after since she was 9yrs old. she was the fussiest eater i have ever met. i told her the same thing, and when she came to me once a week we would cook and try things new to her, but using things that she did like too. getting kids involved with cooking is great; get them to help choose the ingredients, prepare it with you, and cook it. that way they are more likely to want to try it.

allowing kids to dictate what they eat is foolish, and means that they lack the correct nutrients to grow correctly.

my step son, and my son now eat anything and everything. they have learnt that there is very little they don't like. my son can cook food correctly and enjoys cooking for his friends, and girlfriend.

start them as you want them to be, don't tollerate learned behaviour......and trust me, all eating behaviour is learned, even if it's just that you allow it to be that way, and get them involved.

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RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and ... - 12/23/2012 8:10:11 AM

lizi

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Eating and children is a really tough battle. Children have so little power, they will almost always make a stand over the food that they eat and it has the potential to be a constant area for strife. My parenting style is one of picking my battles with my children; what they ate was one that I consistently chose to enforce because although it's one of the hardest battles, I thought it was one of the most worthy. It's not like you have to have screaming battles at every turn; with children, many times success comes when you learn to work with them by giving them some autonomy within a limited scope.

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RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and ... - 12/23/2012 8:12:04 AM

LaTigresse

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My mother, for all of her faults and crazy, did a bang up job of teaching me good, healthy, eating habits. Something that has strongly influenced how I live my life and how I raised my kids. I taught my kids the same. There was simply no shit food in the house for them to 'choose'. No soda, no chips, no shit sugar cereals, no processed crap at all. Having that stuff in the house, for kids, is immoral to me. Sick and wrong.

Yet, for whatever reason, neither of them seems to have continued what they were taught. My daughter is obese and both of my children have worse teeth than I do, due to soda.....and indifferent dental hygiene. It's not the way they were raised, what they were taught. They've made their choices. I did what I could based upon my personal values, they made their own choices.

If one of my adult children developed a health issue, due to their own poor choices, I would not feel obligated to 'save them' from themselves. They've made their choices, they suffer the consequences.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 12/23/2012 8:13:54 AM >

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RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and ... - 12/23/2012 8:22:27 AM

calamitysandra

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I agree, it is important to teach healthy eating habits.

Our approach calls mostly for setting a good example, as well as discussing nutrition with the boys.

Basically, everything has to be tried. Be it new or things that have previously been put into the yuck category, as it has been shown that it may take more than one exposure to learn to like something new.

If, after tasting, something is really to vile to eat, the person in question has the option to make him/herself a sandwich with something healthy.
I prefer this approach to only serving things everybody likes, or at least can tolerate, as in a household with 5 persons with individual tastes that would limit our meal repertoire seriously, and even exclude some peoples favourites.
I do not think that letting them go hungry because they do not like something even after trying would benefit us. I am not going to make food or meals into a battleground.

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RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and ... - 12/23/2012 8:26:40 AM

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Do I think it's good to feed a kid junk food, diabetic or not? No.

Do I think the lady in question is a bad mom? No.

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RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and ... - 12/23/2012 8:28:06 AM

lizi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

<snip>
one of my best friends is like my sister as i've looked after since she was 9yrs old. she was the fussiest eater i have ever met. i told her the same thing, and when she came to me once a week we would cook and try things new to her, but using things that she did like too. getting kids involved with cooking is great; get them to help choose the ingredients, prepare it with you, and cook it. that way they are more likely to want to try it.

<snip>
needles

This is a great technique for this particular issue of kids and healthy eating. Letting kids in on the process of cooking gives you the chance to educate them on healthy food and preparation, and then as mentioned, since they've had an investment in choosing the dish, they'll be more apt to eat it. The education sticks with them for the future.

I worked with a lot of children in my last physical therapy internship in November, one 8 year old was difficult to motivate, and he certainly did not want to be there receiving therapy...not that I blamed him. After he'd been coming for a couple of weeks and knew the basics of what we did, I turned to him one session and asked him what he would like to do next, he could pick. It had to be something therapeutic, and he could actually make up a new exercise if he didn't want to use the ones we'd been doing up to that point. He was dumbfounded, and then quickly put something together and we did it. It was a good exercise, he put together components of what we'd done before so it was something that was indeed beneficial to his condition. As we did his activity, I pointed out what the various actions were doing for him in the areas where he needed it.

I asked him to name it and said i'd put it in his chart along with a description so that anytime he came in after that, the person he was with would be sure to include that in his therapy. He worked harder after that, and I noticed that he was more receptive to doing the things he previously hated - he was now more open to hearing from me how they would help him, and he did them consequently with less complaints.

Our children's health is in the hands of the adults in their world. We are the ones with the knowledge. It's our job to educate them, and to watch out for them, until that time that they can choose for themselves. I think of myself as a helicopter, I watch, then step in if needed.

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RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and ... - 12/23/2012 8:47:10 AM

lmpishlilhellcat

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I don't have kids, so I really can't be considered an expert. Maybe I'm just talking out of my ass, but here goes. I think that something of this nature can be used to teach the child how to indulge in moderation (it doesn't have to be lucky charms it can be anything). Do I think Lucky charms is a good choice of breakfast, no I don't. Would I feed it to my child no. But with that being said, we certainly don't know the circumstances of why that choice was made. Children can be picky eaters. You can set up rules and boundaries for that child, but if they are stubborn or just plain refuse to eat, at what point do you hope to get something into their system versus nothing at all?

I do think that something like Lucky charms can be used as a "special treat" We don't eat this all the time, but today we are getting a special treat. I personally think it is okay to indulge every once in awhile. That's just my personal opinion. I happen to love food. I do however, try to balance any indulgence by a well balanced diet. I try to make sure that I have nicely balanced meals. I fear for when we have a child because my husband absolutely hates vegetables. I try to incorporate them into every single meal. Sometimes I have to serve them with cheese or incorporate other little tricks I've learned along the way. Do I think that this behavior might influence our child? Yes, I do!

On the flip side of the coin, I've had friends grow up vegan and eat like complete crap as adults. I've also had friends that ate a lot of "frozen" or fast food meals and now cook with organic ingredients and eat very clean and healthy. My mom didn't cook or eat very healthy when I was younger. She still doesn't. I cook (very well) and I eat extremely healthy and clean (especially now that I am in a financial position where I can) Yes, we do influence our children to some extent, but at some point they are going to grow up be adults and make their own decisions. I feel that this falls into the same category as trying to instill good values and morals into your child. Do they follow them as an adult? Maybe they do, but maybe they don't.

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RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and ... - 12/23/2012 8:49:50 AM

needlesandpins

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quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

I agree, it is important to teach healthy eating habits.

Our approach calls mostly for setting a good example, as well as discussing nutrition with the boys.

Basically, everything has to be tried. Be it new or things that have previously been put into the yuck category, as it has been shown that it may take more than one exposure to learn to like something new.

If, after tasting, something is really to vile to eat, the person in question has the option to make him/herself a sandwich with something healthy.
I prefer this approach to only serving things everybody likes, or at least can tolerate, as in a household with 5 persons with individual tastes that would limit our meal repertoire seriously, and even exclude some peoples favourites.
I do not think that letting them go hungry because they do not like something even after trying would benefit us. I am not going to make food or meals into a battleground.

i think you have misunderstood me a little there. this wasn't about forcing them to eat what they hated just because the rest of wanted it. it was about not letting them say they weren't eating it because they didn't like it when i knew full well they did because they had eaten it before, and enjoyed it. it was a case of 'i don't like it, it's making me feel sick, i want so-and-so instead.' nope, you eat what you are given because i know you like it, i'm not falling for that crap.

another thing i did for a couple of reasons was turn saturdays in to 'my choice' night. there were 4 of us, and quite frankly after years of having to choose the menu, cook it, and still want to eat it afterwards i got fed up. so in order to give the boys some food option power, and to force my ex to make just one fricking choice every now and then i came up with the above. each saturday one of us would choose our meal. we would shop for it, and i would cook it for everyone. it worked very well in getting the boys to come up with menus. the rule being that you couldn't choose the same thing everytime, or what the others had chosen before you. it worked for years.

needles

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RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and ... - 12/23/2012 9:24:14 AM

tazzygirl

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~FR

I will just point out that having a diabetic child comes with its own set of problems. This isnt a child who can just skip a meal. Get a picky enough eater and a parent can panic trying to get enough into their system that their sugar levels dont crash.

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RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and ... - 12/23/2012 9:31:00 AM

kalikshama

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My mother used to buy 25# bags of wheat berries and grind her own flour to make bread. I got WAY away from this as an adult, until I developed a chronic illness, ran back to many of the food values with which I grew up, and observed my health improve. I don't grind flour, but I am very aware of how my lifestyle* affects my health. The last two years, the only time I've gotten sick was post-holiday sugar binge. Last night I was at a party and told myself ahead of time I was limiting my dessert intake.

My sister rejected my mother's food values for a much longer time but in the 10 years since she became a mother, I've noticed more and more organic food proliferating in her refrigerator. Her kids are fussy eaters but the options they have available in the house are healthy.

*I say lifestyle and not diet because exercise is very important too. If left up to me as a child, I would have kept my nose in a book, but my mother was constantly shooing me outside to play or help with with the garden, etc.

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RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and ... - 12/23/2012 9:43:26 AM

kalikshama

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I've become friends with my landlord, who lives downstairs and has daughters ranging from 6 - 20. He has custody of the three youngest on Wednesdays and every other weekend. I adore the 6 year old and after observing how she crashes a few hours after eating donuts took over cooking when they are here. I suggested to him that if they are out for a long time to carry nuts for her so if she is hungry he has an alternative other than donuts.

I sat her down and insisted she try three varieties of nuts plus sunflower seeds. She told me she didn't like X, but I coaxed her into trying "just one" and she ended up sampling all four. We discovered she liked the sunflower seeds best. The only problem with keeping these on hand for snacks is that her sister loves them and keeping them in stock could prove challenging :)

With all the gazillion food options available, I just don't buy the "Lucky Charms is the only thing my child will eat" argument. (This was not an argument made in the OP, but is something I often see in conversations like this.)

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RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and ... - 12/23/2012 9:50:15 AM

kalikshama

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lizi

Eating and children is a really tough battle. Children have so little power, they will almost always make a stand over the food that they eat and it has the potential to be a constant area for strife. My parenting style is one of picking my battles with my children; what they ate was one that I consistently chose to enforce because although it's one of the hardest battles, I thought it was one of the most worthy. It's not like you have to have screaming battles at every turn; with children, many times success comes when you learn to work with them by giving them some autonomy within a limited scope.

I often wonder if my landlord's 12 year old became a vegetarian as a means to take back control after her parents separated. I am sad that no one taught her about complete proteins and the steps a vegetarian needs to take to ensure intaking missing nutrients. I make sure that there's a healthy vegetarian option at each meal. I suspect she used to get sugary cereals a lot.

I'm hoping in the spring to get them involved in the garden and then cooking.

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RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and ... - 12/23/2012 10:16:57 AM

AthenaSurrenders

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

With all the gazillion food options available, I just don't buy the "Lucky Charms is the only thing my child will eat" argument. (This was not an argument made in the OP, but is something I often see in conversations like this.)

Perhaps not lucky charms, but I was that child. I was one of those horribly picky eaters - I say 'was', I am much better as an adult but it is still a challenge and has taken a lot of work to get where I am. For a long time all I would eat was chicken, potatoes (prepared in certain ways), pasta, rice, dairy products, bread and tuna. Tomato sauces, as long as they were totally smooth, were acceptable. For me it was a texture thing. Certain textures in my mouth gave me this overwhelming feeling of panic. I would gag. I would tense up and start feeling like my throat was closing up. All in my head of course, I didn't have allergies. But what I felt was genuine distress, not just a sulky case of 'I want ice cream instead'. I used to be scared of being invited to someone's house for dinner, because I was terrified they would serve something I couldn't eat. I hated to draw attention to myself and when it happened I felt so embarrassed and guilty I just wanted to die. I got really good at cutting up food and moving it round my plate, getting into over-animated conversations, and other tricks to hide that I couldn't eat it. Interestingly I was quite adventurous when it came to flavours, I loved spicy things and ethnic foods - as long as there were no scary textures hiding in there.

My mother says that her only regret from my childhood is not trying harder to get me to eat fruit and veg. They tried to some extent but never wanted to force me to do something so obviously upsetting. I do not blame them one bit. Healthy food was available. They taught me how to cook (even the things I wouldn't touch). And overall I think they did a pretty awesome job of giving me a stable, secure and happy childhood. Now that I'm a parent, I'm worried my kids will be the same way and I don't know how I will handle it.

Now I can eat about 15-20 different types of vegetables so they show up in everything. I'd still order old reliable dishes in restaurants, in case they cook the veg 'wrong' and the texture bothers me. I have had to work and work on eating the stuff that I have now. I can't eat salad. I still can't stand a single type of fresh fruit, so I make smoothies. Believe me, it is not an excuse to eat junk food. My husband is also a picky eater - in his case he is very fussy about flavours and seasonings, and he has made much less progress than me. He is hard to feed. But like me, he hates it, he struggled with it. He certainly wasn't pandered to as a child, they were poor and he got what he got, but it didn't 'fix' him.

So yeah, sorry that was long, and not answering your initial question. But I am reluctant to judge people I don't know when they say their kids won't eat anything else, because I know what it's like to be that kid.

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RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and ... - 12/23/2012 10:21:42 AM

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When I was a little kid my aunt tried to make me eat my oatmeal.. i refused cuz she poured milk over it and i had a bad experience with milk that went sour.. so no way was i gonna touch milk again.. had she not poured the milk on it, i would have eaten it as i would today, with just a very little brown sugar and fruit..

When i was a teenager, growing up on the farm, having my "pets" served to me for dinner was very objectionable to me.. I became a vegitarian, end of story.. of course my family thought i was nuts but whatever..

I also wouldnt eat my sandwich at lunch at school if it got smushed or mushy.. eck..

I have always been a picky eater but we didnt have a lot of money so didnt get much junk food.. Christmas time we would splurge and get a box of mandarins.. i couldnt get enough of them.. now i cant find real mandarins in the store anymore, or not very often,.. they have cuties which i dont like and wont buy..

mmmmm thinking about fresh peas! as a kid i would spend hours in the garden eating those.. I need a garden!..

If i had kids i would be very careful of what i allowed them to eat.. it starts with not feeding them some sweet fruit drink when they are little babies.. of course, that is easy for me to say since i dont have kids...

eta- if parents have a yard and garden, then giving their kids a little patch to grow their own veggies is (imo) a good idea, I had my own garden when I was a kid..

< Message edited by tj444 -- 12/23/2012 10:39:39 AM >

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RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and ... - 12/23/2012 10:27:31 AM

kalikshama

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quote:

I still can't stand a single type of fresh fruit, so I make smoothies.

Another great example of a healthy option. It's too bad pediatricians aren't trained to make these sorts of suggestions to parents of picky eaters.

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RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and ... - 12/23/2012 10:33:42 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
I often wonder if my landlord's 12 year old became a vegetarian as a means to take back control after her parents separated. I am sad that no one taught her about complete proteins and the steps a vegetarian needs to take to ensure intaking missing nutrients.

Parents cant teach their kids things they themselves dont know or aren't even aware of.. I would expect they would try teaching that if they did.. do they even teach anything like that in school?

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RE: How much responsibility do we bear for our own and ... - 12/23/2012 11:19:18 AM

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I'm the youngest of 5 kids in our family. My mom simply didn't have the budget or energy to cater to each of our preferences with food. Dinner was what she cooked for us (and she was a great cook so no complaints there) and if we didn't eat it, we missed dinner that night. Same with breakfast, etc. We had very little "junk food" in the house - it was too expensive, and she made it a point to serve us healthy food, for the most part.

Somehow, most of us grew up with eating disorders. Can't really explain that one - we KNOW what is healthy, but we emotionally stuff, with food, and we all seem to have sugar addictions. I suppose it's good she fee us the healthy stuff while growing up because none of us had obesity or food related health issues until we were adults. But I can't say our healthy eating as kids carried out into our adult lives.

My sister has a boy with aspergers syndrome and who is on a gluten free diet. He is extremely picky about what he eats, and unfortunately there are many foods he can't eat. I always feel bad for him when the family had pizza for dinner and he had to have something else, but he kind of just shrugs it off. He knows what happens to him when he eats the wrong foods, so he'd prefer to go without. But because he is so picky about textures and flavors and colors, my sister has just allowed him to eat whatever it is he'll eat. Dealing with a husband with terminal cancer, dealing with her own food issues, and dealing with her son's behavioral issues has brought her to a place where she picks her battles, because she can't be on top of everything.

Yes, we can all do armchair quarterback parenting. Maybe we're right in some cases, maybe we're not. I learned a long time ago, while we can look on from the outside and state opinions about a situation, until we are under someone's roof, living their lives, we really don't know what goes on. I know I can unequivocally say if I had a diabetic kid, I wouldn't feed him/her Lucky Charms, but then again, I don't have one, and I don't live in that household, and maybe people are just doing the best they can and I should mind my own business. OR....maybe, if I think someone is misinformed about something, I could help educate them without being an ass about it. I had a friend who used to do the McDonald's drive-through every morning with her kids, and give them pancakes on their way to school. And both kids had ADHD. Rather than berate her for pumping them with sugar before school, we had positive conversations about various options. I think chiding someone for living differently than we would only serves to make the chider feel good. But that's just me and my own opinion, after all...

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Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to kalikshama)

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