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BDSM cult - 12/24/2012 10:30:33 AM   
spiritsub7


Posts: 5
Joined: 12/23/2012
Status: offline 		So I was just curious at what point does a Dom become sort of a cult-leader?
Where is the line drawn?
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RE: BDSM cult - 12/24/2012 10:34:42 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: spiritsub7
So I was just curious at what point does a Dom become sort of a cult-leader? Where is the line drawn?

*blinks* Huh?

OK, for starters the word "cult" is meaningless. But I assume what you mean by this is some sort of Jim Jones sort of thing. For me I became a "cult-leader" at the time of Carol's internal enslavement. I didn't find any "line" that I wanted to draw.


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RE: BDSM cult - 12/24/2012 10:46:39 AM   
spiritsub7


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Joined: 12/23/2012
Status: offline 		Ok. I guess I was wondering more about the abuse that takes place in D/s relationships...and not the fun kind

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RE: BDSM cult - 12/24/2012 10:51:42 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		I've been in this stuff for over 3 decades and never been involved in "Abuse".

Spanking, flogging, caning, bondage and all sorts of things like that but no abuse.

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RE: BDSM cult - 12/24/2012 11:14:04 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: spiritsub7

Ok. I guess I was wondering more about the abuse that takes place in D/s relationships...and not the fun kind

It becomes a cult as soon as more than one sub is being abused.
Anything consensual isn't a cult.

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RE: BDSM cult - 12/24/2012 11:18:56 AM   
SylvereApLeanan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: spiritsub7

Ok. I guess I was wondering more about the abuse that takes place in D/s relationships...and not the fun kind


This depends on where you draw the line. My line is not your line and vice versa. What looks like abuse to you could be a typical Tuesday night at my house. As long as everyone is getting his/her/xir physical and emotional needs met, it's probably all good.

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RE: BDSM cult - 12/24/2012 11:19:07 AM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		My first question back to you is: are you able to identify abuse within the context of a vanilla relationship?

Next question for you: why do you think it might be difficult for you personally to differentiate between a consentual BDSM relationship and a relationship that crosses over the line to being abusive?

Since you seem to find the boundaries between the 2 confusing (you aren't the only one), perhaps some information from a link might be helpful?


http://www.kinkabuse.com/

"About

Abuse can be defined as any relationship where one person attempts to control another through fear, subjugation, and humiliation, and/or verbal and/or physical assaults. Abuse transcends background, education, gender, sexual orientation, sexual preferences, polyamorous, and monogamous relationships. Simply put abuse can be found everywhere. There are no indications or studies that demonstrate that there is a higher incident of abusive relationships within the BDSM community in comparison to vanilla relationships. In fact, there is a growing trend where mental health practitioners look to the BDSM community as an example of how to communicate effectively.
Many aspects of BDSM could be mistaken for abuse. What we as BDSM practitioners find erotic, to the vanilla world may give the appearance of abuse. The purpose of this website is to expound upon and enlighten those who do not understand the differences between abuse and a healthy BDSM relationship. This website will seek to answer the following questions:
• So what makes up a healthy BDSM relationship?
• How is BDSM NOT abuse?
• What are the warning signs of abuse?
• What resources are available if you are being abused?
• What to do if you are raped?
• How do you negotiate to keep yourself safe?
• How do you engage in humiliation play and avoid emotional abuse?
• How do you recognize a cult?
In addition there are personal stories and articles that help expand upon relationships within the BDSM lifestyle. It is the author’s intent that this information be used to the benefit of the BDSM community and to help empower the individual who engages in BDSM play. ... ."

Note: I am including this particular link because among other things, it does address the topic of BDSM cults.
No offense to anyone is intended and my views are not necessarily in agreement.
This is just the information the OP requested.

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RE: BDSM cult - 12/24/2012 11:22:16 AM   
JeffBC


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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: spiritsub7
Ok. I guess I was wondering more about the abuse that takes place in D/s relationships...and not the fun kind

Like Hill I got nothing for you here since I've never seen any "abuse". I've seen crappy relationships where people treated each other poorly but nothing I'd call "abuse".

What abuse is it that you think takes place in D/s relationships? Is it somehow different than the abuse that takes place in vanilla relationships? Do you think it's more common?


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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RE: BDSM cult - 12/24/2012 11:41:19 AM   
stellauk


Posts: 1360
Status: offline 		Sorry for some reason I read 'cunt-leader'..

I think I need glasses.

< Message edited by stellauk -- 12/24/2012 11:44:04 AM >

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RE: BDSM cult - 12/24/2012 12:01:46 PM   
spiritsub7


Posts: 5
Joined: 12/23/2012
Status: offline 		I guess someone who plays "mind fuck" games with you a lot and very manipulative would be someone I consider being abusive. Someone who won't hear anything I have to say either...calls me names...won't let me have a say in anything..

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RE: BDSM cult - 12/24/2012 12:02:07 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		OK, I took a look at that site... particularly it's business about "cults". My own impression is that a person would get quite a bit better relationship advice from Cosmopolitan magazine -- or a children's coloring book. The source links basically assert that all world religions are cults and, in fact, pretty much any grouping of humans might be considered one... complete with lots of Singer-esque hand-waving and exclamation marks about mind control. Her whole article would've been a ton better if it had started like this:

Vanilla: "BDSM? Isn't that some sort of cult?"
Me: "Cult is an interesting word that really has no meaning in a concrete way. So what do you mean when you say 'cult'? Rather than an undefined label, can you tell me what specific aspects might bother you?"

And for the record, the site also claims that "BDSM is about sex" and outs the writer as a blatant and public liar and hypocrite who lacks both strength and integrity. But hey... that seems like a fine place to go for serious advice.

For my money, if I wanted to know about domestic abuse I think I'd go to some credible source. Ideally I'd read some actually peer reviewed papers but if I can't muster that much energy to save myself I'd go see what some local women's shelters had for handouts. The kinkabuse site looks like total codswallop to me (thanks Stella *laughs*)

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to angelikaJ)
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RE: BDSM cult - 12/24/2012 12:04:54 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spiritsub7

I guess someone who plays "mind fuck" games with you a lot and very manipulative would be someone I consider being abusive. Someone who won't hear anything I have to say either...calls me names...won't let me have a say in anything..


But, I adore mind fucks.

I adore a man who can get so far into my head that he can have me spinning for days.

I am a slave, so, while I may voice my opinion, I dont expect to be "heard".. its great when he does.

Its all about the individual.

What you may term abuse, someone else may see as heaven.



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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: BDSM cult - 12/24/2012 12:07:00 PM   
FelineFae


Posts: 7756
Joined: 1/23/2009
From: i do wander everywhere...
Status: offline 		A cult leader will generally follow this MO;

* Present themselves as a "savior" to someone in distress.
Since the potential cult-member is in distress, their ability to perceive danger can be impaired. This state of distress might be extended by modifications to the potential cult member's diet, such as an omission of protein.

* The cult-leader will assure the potential cult-member that their former life was inferior ( for whatever reasons ) and will then convince the potential member that they can live a better life within the cult.

* The new cult member will be isolated from those of their "past life" and then "reborn" into the cult-life. Often there are rituals and the cult-member is renamed. A cult member may have to perform other feats to prove their worthiness to the cult and cult-leader.

* A cult-leader may have a cult-member do something that risk their life in the name of the cult's cause.

This is the difference. In a healthy D/s relationship, the Dom/me will not do something that will permanently harm the s-type. The Dom/me will not do or allow something to happen that will end in the death of the s-type. That is why there is trust between the Dom/me and the s-type. A cult leader creates followers to be devout and potentially forfeit their lives to his or her's cause.

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RE: BDSM cult - 12/24/2012 12:25:27 PM   
FelineFae


Posts: 7756
Joined: 1/23/2009
From: i do wander everywhere...
Status: offline 		A cult-leader will employ psychological abuse, but not all psychological abusers are cult-leaders.
The post i made above was off the top of my head, and i'm still not totally awake.
However, there are many online sources with information on psychological abuse and the pathology of cult-leaders. It's a popular subdivision of criminal psychology.
You may also want to research the subject of " toxic relationships ".

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All right reserved by Chaos
: Disclaimer :
Do not expose FelineFae to direct sunlight.
FelineFae cannot spell in any language.
Granting of Fae-Wishes VOID where prohibitededed.
Individual results may vary.


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RE: BDSM cult - 12/24/2012 2:51:52 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		spent five years with a dominant man ..... and at no time was there any abuse. I think calling bdsm relationships akin to cults is a bit of a stretch.

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RE: BDSM cult - 12/24/2012 4:30:22 PM   
poise


Posts: 9509
Joined: 7/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL:spiritsub7So I was just curious at what point does a Dom become sort
of a cult-leader?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ok. I guess I was wondering more about the abuse that takes place in D/s relationships...and not the fun kind

quote:

ORIGINAL: spiritsub7
I guess someone who plays "mind fuck" games with you a lot and very manipulative would be
someone I consider being abusive. Someone who won't hear anything I have to say either...
calls me names...won't let me have a say in anything..


It's kind of confusing that you went from "Doms are cult-leaders" to "abuse in D/s relationships"
and then finally to the heart of the matter, which is a relationship that you don't seem too happy in.

The answer will be the same for all three questions really.
"Your" dom can only be a leader if you and others continue to follow him.
"Your" dom is only as abusive as you allow him to be, and you are allowing him to be for as
long as you remain in the relationship with him.
"Your dom can only continue to stifle your voice for as long you continue to remain silent.

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RE: BDSM cult - 12/24/2012 4:52:04 PM   
SomethingCatchy


Posts: 796
Joined: 7/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spiritsub7

I guess someone who plays "mind fuck" games with you a lot and very manipulative would be someone I consider being abusive. Someone who won't hear anything I have to say either...calls me names...won't let me have a say in anything..



Well fuck... I guess I need to turn myself in to the cops because at any given time I do all of the above!

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RE: BDSM cult - 12/24/2012 4:54:19 PM   
MalcolmNathaniel


Posts: 1394
Joined: 9/20/2010
Status: offline 		First off: DON'T FEED THE TROLL.

Secondly: See my first point.

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RE: BDSM cult - 12/24/2012 4:59:08 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spiritsub7

I guess someone who plays "mind fuck" games with you a lot and very manipulative would be someone I consider being abusive. Someone who won't hear anything I have to say either...calls me names...won't let me have a say in anything..


This is why I asked you if you could recognise abuse in a non-BDSM relationship.

Not everyone involved in BDSM engages in name calling or have anything to do with humiliation.
Not all leaders refuse to let their submissive partners have a voice.


Perhaps before you begin to get involved you should define what is and is not okay for you personally and then stick within those boundaries.

Focus on the boundaries then and feeling respected within those parameters and don't fall for the "I know you better than you know yourself" 'mystical type of dominant.

It really is better to be happy and alone than to be miserable and with someone.


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http://www.collarchat.com/m_3234821/tm.htm

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjuCQd01sg

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RE: BDSM cult - 12/24/2012 7:14:23 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spiritsub7

So I was just curious at what point does a Dom become sort of a cult-leader?
Where is the line drawn?


At about ten subs.

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