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Flexibility and fitness for submission - 12/25/2012 1:00:05 AM

DominusAugustus

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I've often read in shibari texts, as well as experienced some firsthand, that flexibility plays an important role in bondage, especially with more intense ties. Subs/slaves, how have you prepared for bondage and submission in general. Has greater flexibility or fitness improved your capabilities as a sub? Have you hit any roadblocks that have prevented you from completing a tie you, or your Dom, was interested in?

Dominus

Post #: 1

RE: Flexibility and fitness for submission - 12/25/2012 7:41:39 AM

DesFIP

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From: Apple County NY
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I'm 57, I've got chronic problems. There's no magic available to make me able to be tied up like a pretzel anymore.

In general, yoga and pilates are recommended for stretching and flexibility. Even with that, people still have problems that need to be worked around. ACL tears for young women athletes are extremely common so if she played softball this is something to talk about.

I'm much more concerned that you think you can learn shibari from reading and immediately translate that to tying others. Practice the ties on yourself to learn more. Take workshops. Don't go from a book or website to a human being especially with the more rigorous positions.

Oh, and being a bondage bottom doesn't mean you're also submissive.

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 12/25/2012 7:42:25 AM >

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RE: Flexibility and fitness for submission - 12/25/2012 9:01:42 AM

SylvereApLeanan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Practice the ties on yourself to learn more.

I'm not submissive, nor am I particularly flexible, but I have acted as a rope model for my husband, who is very into shibari. Flexibility isn't a prerequisite for being a rope bottom.

However, please do not take the advice quoted above. Sorry, Des, but trying ties on himself is not a good way to go. He won't be able to see what he's doing from every angle the way he needs to as he learns. Instead, invest in a dressmaker's form or a full-body mannequin like you see in clothing stores. That will let you do the ties, walk around and check the tension on the ropes, and work on your speed.

While you *can* go straight from a book to a live person, you'll be very slow the first few times you do rope work. Don't make your model sit or stand for long periods of time while you figure out what you're doing. Once you're faster, I suggest having someone act as a living model who can tell you whether you're cutting off circulation, if there's someplace the rope is rubbing too much, and generally act as a sounding board so you know if any adjustments need to be made.

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RE: Flexibility and fitness for submission - 12/25/2012 10:38:14 AM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DominusAugustus
Subs/slaves, how have you prepared for bondage

We don't do enough bondage to require preparation.

and submission in general. We don't equate submission with bottoming.
Has greater flexibility or fitness improved your capabilities as a sub? No

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RE: Flexibility and fitness for submission - 12/25/2012 10:38:26 AM

alildifferent

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I've been working on my fitness and flexibility a lot. But it's more because I'm transexual than any need to appease a dom. I like long lean muscle rather than bulk which requires working with high reps, slowly, with low weight. As hormones have gotten rid of a lot of male muscle I've missed having strength on things like taking out the trash or helping a friend move. That's why I work out. As for stretching. It lengthens muscles and makes them appear to be leaner. Also, it's fun to be able to do something like the splits at 41. But they are right caution is needed not to over do it.

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RE: Flexibility and fitness for submission - 12/25/2012 10:51:13 AM

NuevaVida

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We don't do a whole lot of bondage here. Flexibility isn't an issue. He puts me in the position he wants me.

That said, I do work out. But I'm 47, and my knees hurt, which limits me, and I have arthritis in my foot, and ankle problems from a fall down the stairs a few years ago. My muscles are limber enough to enable me into the positions he wants, and that works for us.

He's pretty easy going, though, so if I'm unable to remain in a certain position, he moves me.

As for how to prepare for submission, I'm just myself.

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RE: Flexibility and fitness for submission - 12/25/2012 12:26:51 PM

DominusAugustus

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Joined: 12/24/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
I'm much more concerned that you think you can learn shibari from reading and immediately translate that to tying others. Practice the ties on yourself to learn more. Take workshops. Don't go from a book or website to a human being especially with the more rigorous positions.

Oh, and being a bondage bottom doesn't mean you're also submissive.

You misunderstand, I've tied several individuals since I got interested in Shibari. I'm not completely new to this, I just realize that I have a ways to go before being any kind of expert and so I ask questions. While yes, certain complex ties might be slower and not appropriate depending on the flow of a session, casual practice time with a sub is a great way to learn new ties, at least for me. Most of the photos on my profile are from this kind of practice.

Also, I phrased my post as I did since this is the subs/slaves forum. I do not mean to imply that all bottoms are subs.

Dominus

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 7

RE: Flexibility and fitness for submission - 12/25/2012 1:41:58 PM

FelineFae

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i'm expected to comply to a certain command word by instantly and gracefully dropping to my knees with forehead to the ground hands together and palm-side down to ground before me... you know the basic face-down, a**-up position. This command can and has been given at a moment's notice, in some interesting situations, like the front-seat of the car. i think Chaos rather enjoys making it more difficult for me to comply, the sadist!

Even when i've been too ill to keep to a full yoga program, i still stretch. i have some medical conditions that have complicated other physical hobbies i once enjoyed regularly, but the ability to stretch every part of my body and remain limber is still there for me. i don't really consider a good body stretch to be exercising, maybe that's an inner-cat thing. All i know is that it feels good. If the cold is making you sore or you're stiff from chores or homework, you stretch the part that hurts as much as you can, and it feels better.

One little genetic goody i did receive was the gift of double-jointed hips. Chaos still enjoys a Houdini game where he'll fold me into as little a container as possible. Of course, being double-jointed is a little misunderstood. One doesn't really have a doubled joint, instead, a greater ability to become flexible in that region of the body. This has to be developed through practice.

Maybe you could spend some time with your rope partner and do some guided meditation combined with some yoga positions ? Going into a trance can help to hold a certain position.

e2a
~fr~

< Message edited by FelineFae -- 12/25/2012 1:52:55 PM >

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RE: Flexibility and fitness for submission - 12/25/2012 2:14:42 PM

FelineFae

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quote:

Has greater flexibility or fitness improved your capabilities as a sub?

Yes.

quote:

Have you hit any roadblocks that have prevented you from completing a tie you, or your Dom, was interested in?

No.

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RE: Flexibility and fitness for submission - 12/25/2012 10:26:14 PM

AllisonWilder

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FelineFae

i'm expected to comply to a certain command word by instantly and gracefully dropping to my knees with forehead to the ground hands together and palm-side down to ground before me... you know the basic face-down, a**-up position. This command can and has been given at a moment's notice, in some interesting situations, like the front-seat of the car. i think Chaos rather enjoys making it more difficult for me to comply, the sadist!

Reading this made me feel old. My first thought was "I hope it was parked because she should really be wearing her seat belt in a moving car."

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Post #: 10

RE: Flexibility and fitness for submission - 12/25/2012 10:36:02 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DominusAugustus

I've often read in shibari texts, as well as experienced some firsthand, that flexibility plays an important role in bondage, especially with more intense ties. Subs/slaves, how have you prepared for bondage and submission in general. Has greater flexibility or fitness improved your capabilities as a sub? Have you hit any roadblocks that have prevented you from completing a tie you, or your Dom, was interested in?

Dominus

My submission? I'm just myself. that's the only preparation I need seeing as I'm a submissive personality.

As for bondage, yup, flexibility and fitness are extremely important if you're doing more complicated or long term bondage. How have I prepared? I try to stay healthy. That means keeping my lifestyle healthy...diet, exercise, attitude, spirituality, etc....I'm not young anymore. When I was young I didn't need anything at all. I was very flexible and healthy but I'm 40 now and that does not just happen now. The body changes as you get older. I'm nowhere near as flexible as I used to be but I try to stay as healthy as I can so I can at least still do things without killing my body.

The roadblocks are that I'm older. I'm not 20 anymore. Menopause has prevented me from being tied for longer or tighter anymore because otherwise heat flashes will cause me to pass out and my limbs to go numb. But that's life. He can't do the things he used to do when we were kids either. It's normal.

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RE: Flexibility and fitness for submission - 12/25/2012 11:14:53 PM

theRose4U

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Joined: 8/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AllisonWilder

quote:

ORIGINAL: FelineFae

i'm expected to comply to a certain command word by instantly and gracefully dropping to my knees with forehead to the ground hands together and palm-side down to ground before me... you know the basic face-down, a**-up position. This command can and has been given at a moment's notice, in some interesting situations, like the front-seat of the car. i think Chaos rather enjoys making it more difficult for me to comply, the sadist!

Reading this made me feel old. My first thought was "I hope it was parked because she should really be wearing her seat belt in a moving car."

I was picturing knees on the seat, head on the floor...gee I hope he doesn't throw on the breaks, that could cause a back strain

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Post #: 12

RE: Flexibility and fitness for submission - 12/25/2012 11:22:54 PM

FelineFae

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quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U

quote:

ORIGINAL: AllisonWilder

quote:

ORIGINAL: FelineFae

i'm expected to comply to a certain command word by instantly and gracefully dropping to my knees with forehead to the ground hands together and palm-side down to ground before me... you know the basic face-down, a**-up position. This command can and has been given at a moment's notice, in some interesting situations, like the front-seat of the car. i think Chaos rather enjoys making it more difficult for me to comply, the sadist!

Reading this made me feel old. My first thought was "I hope it was parked because she should really be wearing her seat belt in a moving car."

I was picturing knees on the seat, head on the floor...gee I hope he doesn't throw on the breaks, that could cause a back strain

The car was parked, and theRose4U nailed it.

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RE: Flexibility and fitness for submission - 12/26/2012 12:07:15 AM

MarineKitten

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Joined: 12/21/2012
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Surprisingly I have always been naturally flexible. Even at 230 lbs. I am capable of bending and twisting in ways that make a lot of people do double takes. However my flexibility also causes a lot of problems. I have very little muscle strength. Also due to a back injury I cannot be suspended. While being flexible helps in some aspects of bondage it's not a requirement, nor should it be. Personally I'd like someone who is willing and educated enough to work with and around my limits rather then throwing up their hands and saying "you can't be tied."

(in reply to FelineFae)

Post #: 14

RE: Flexibility and fitness for submission - 12/26/2012 7:52:48 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Practice the ties on yourself to learn more.

I'm not submissive, nor am I particularly flexible, but I have acted as a rope model for my husband, who is very into shibari. Flexibility isn't a prerequisite for being a rope bottom.

However, please do not take the advice quoted above. Sorry, Des, but trying ties on himself is not a good way to go. He won't be able to see what he's doing from every angle the way he needs to as he learns. Instead, invest in a dressmaker's form or a full-body mannequin like you see in clothing stores. That will let you do the ties, walk around and check the tension on the ropes, and work on your speed.

That's an excellent idea also. But if he ties his feet together so the ankle bones grind, he's going to get immediate feedback as to why he should avoid that in the future. Something a pillow or dressmaker's form can't give.

Between the time it takes to do ties, which can easily be longer than the person can abide, and all the mistakes, I don't recommend beginner learning on another human being. If he ties her hands above her head, he won't be even halfway done with another tie before her arms are screaming in pain and she won't be in the mood to let him do anything else.

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Post #: 15

RE: Flexibility and fitness for submission - 12/26/2012 3:59:25 PM

littlewonder

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Master still ties me in whatever way he wants. I just give him feedback and let him decide on what to do from there. Sometimes he doesn't think it's a big deal and leaves it the way it is. Sometimes he'll fix the tie to something else or he unties me completely. It just depends on the situation.

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RE: Flexibility and fitness for submission - 12/26/2012 6:40:39 PM

DominusAugustus

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Joined: 12/24/2012
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quote:

That's an excellent idea also. But if he ties his feet together so the ankle bones grind, he's going to get immediate feedback as to why he should avoid that in the future. Something a pillow or dressmaker's form can't give.

Between the time it takes to do ties, which can easily be longer than the person can abide, and all the mistakes, I don't recommend beginner learning on another human being. If he ties her hands above her head, he won't be even halfway done with another tie before her arms are screaming in pain and she won't be in the mood to let him do anything else.

I do generally practice new ties (if possible) on myself. I have a few of those pictures somewhere, I just chose not to showcase them on my profile. I've also practiced on various inanimate objects that resemble human limbs/torsos where possible. As I mentioned before I also practice casually with kinky friends so we can mess up and try again without feeling sheepish. If I had space for some kind of mannequin that might be a good alternative for solo practice. I'd rather just make more kinky friends to practice with though :>

Rather than keep talking about the appropriate way to practice Shibari though, I'd like to keep the focus of this thread to learning about how different subs and slaves (or bottom if you prefer) handle the physical requirements of their submission.

Dominus

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 17

RE: Flexibility and fitness for submission - 12/26/2012 10:28:22 PM

NuevaVida

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Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DominusAugustus
I'd like to keep the focus of this thread to learning about how different subs and slaves (or bottom if you prefer) handle the physical requirements of their submission.

I eat well and work out. But that has more to do with my own requirements of myself (which began before I met the Mister) than my submission. The requirements of my submission have more to do with where my head and heart are, than where my body is.

I have noticed, however, certain physical positions with him are easier/more enjoyable since I've gotten into shape. But that wasn't a requirement.

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RE: Flexibility and fitness for submission - 12/27/2012 5:09:45 PM

FelineFae

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Regarding rope bondage, i've never faced any issues on my end. Well, nothing beyond that damned nose itch after my hands are out of use to me.

What exactly are the problems you've encountered with s-types and bottoms with rope work ?

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Individual results may vary.

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Post #: 19

RE: Flexibility and fitness for submission - 12/27/2012 5:15:27 PM

TheLilSquaw

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I have had heavy long term bondage before and I wasn't in the greatest physical shape, in fact I'm in better shape now. I've lost over 100lbs since May.

I've never really done yogo or palates, for ME it's a mental thing and that is what allows me to handle it.

< Message edited by TheLilSquaw -- 12/27/2012 5:26:52 PM >

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