RE: Damn Those Overpaid, Unionized, Public School Teachers!!!

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thishereboi -> RE: Damn Those Overpaid, Unionized, Public School Teachers!!! (12/28/2012 6:44:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: graceadieu quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri spanxalot15, you are barking up the wrong tree with me. In the Toledo area, brand-spanking new teachers are paid around $30k, unless they have a Master's Degree, which gets them a bump of $5k/yr. more. $30k for 9 months isn't really all that bad, and it spares you the expense of summer child care, if you so choose. So, assuming the teacher works 60 hours a week for 40 weeks, which seems pretty much in line with what I've seen, that's.... $12.50/hour, the same as what I used to make in retail as an hourly supervisor, a job which required a high school diploma and a drug test. I suppose at least there's more room for growth? why would you assume they work 60 hours a week? In this area they work around 40 hours a week. If I did the math right that is about 18.75 an hour for a starting teacher.

Thaz -> RE: Damn Those Overpaid, Unionized, Public School Teachers!!! (12/28/2012 6:45:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: Thaz Intresting. Its a fair point that all Major parties are but coalitions under one banner. The issues start to occur when one banner or faction gets a monopoly of the vote. The US republicans are in danger of becoming unelectable as they have not moved with changing demographics. You would assume 'market forces' will mean they either will or be replaced. As happened to the Liberal party in the UK after WW II. However it can happen. Norway have had effectively single party rule for a great many years now despite being a democracy in name.... The irony is that the GOP, the party that idolises market forces, has narrowed its brand and demonized large groups of potential "consumers." Do you think effective single party rule in Norway might be abetted by the small and rather homogenious population? I cannot imagine successful single party rule in a nation of 330 million, can you? ETA the CP in China seems to be somewhat shakey. I think its fair that Norway is fairly unified chain of thought. Ie They dont mind paying high tax in order to have good schools, healthcare and social programs but in return expect those to be run well and people to work hard. Very North of Europe. Allmost full employment and great natural reserves dont hurt none either. Of course their ARE tensions and its not paradise. China. I see no sign of the party being shakey these days. oh it WAS a few years ago. But, like Norway, its deilvering the goods so far and as a result the people are willing to go along by and large. Corruption is much more of an issue than lack of freedom.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Damn Those Overpaid, Unionized, Public School Teachers!!! (12/28/2012 6:49:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver Lowering the status and remuneration of teachers is not going to improve American education which like many other western countries is going backwards for many reasons that aren't strictly educational but cultural. 1. A teacher, no matter how good, cannot do much with a child who has had its head fucked up for four years by its parents using the TV as a baby sitter. An example of shirking of parental responsibility. quote: 2. A child who can't read or count when it goes to school, will almost always be behind a child who can read when and count it starts school. Children need to be socialised into education, it can't be done on a 9-5 part time basis. An example of shirking of parental responsibility. quote: 3. Macho-culture is anti-educational. Would you expound on this one, please? I'm not sure how you link the two. quote: 4. Superficial video games are known to damage a child's ability to concentrate on activities that require a high degree of intellectual thought. I could go on. Teachers have a thankless task in an anti-intellectual culture which the west is becoming and the idea that teachers don't deserve their renumeration is an indication of that. If teaching is seen as a parasitic job that anyone could do, it is no wonder education is going backwards in the west. There are two ways of looking at this. What is the level of responsibility demanded of a teacher, and is the level of compensation commensurate with that level of responsibility. As things stand right now, I do not believe teacher pay is commensurate with the level of responsibility. To qualify that, though, I fully believe the level of responsibility is the problem, not the pay. Too much is required. Reduce that demand, and the pay becomes commensurate. [edited to fix a formatting mistake]

vincentML -> RE: Damn Those Overpaid, Unionized, Public School Teachers!!! (12/28/2012 7:49:58 AM)
quote: You can't force a school district and/or the individual teachers to compensate for the students' home environment woes. There is only one way to make sure each and every child has a stable home environment that fosters academic success, but taking kids away from their homes to a State-run home isn't an acceptable answer, especially since you'd have to mandate it. Perhaps there should be more "military" schools where the worst offenders are forced by the State to attend. Each community would have one and students would be isolated from their lacking home environments. We had in-school suspension for those whose behavior interferred with the learning of others. They were isolated to one designated classroom with study assignments for a period of time.

vincentML -> RE: Damn Those Overpaid, Unionized, Public School Teachers!!! (12/28/2012 7:57:32 AM)
quote: I have an awful lot of appreciation for the service teachers are supposed to provide. And, if we'd actually allow them to concentrate on provision of that service, I wholeheartedly believe that we would see improvements in the system, the education of the children, and our global ranking (which I think isn't as important as many seem to). And, I do think that the teaching profession does offer gain in areas that can't be financially compensated (how many teachers do not enjoy simply teaching?). Talk to a teacher about what they love about teaching and they'll tell you about the look on a child's face as a lesson sinks in and the child finally "gets it." They'll talk about touching a child's life, making some small gesture towards a student that turns a kid's life around. That shit happens, and it's all due to those who choose to teach (remember, none of them didn't get forced into a classroom, nor did they go in no knowing it wasn't going to be easy, nor did they go in without knowing the ballpark pay scale). Thank you, DS. Your comments are much appreciated by this retired high school teacher.

vincentML -> RE: Damn Those Overpaid, Unionized, Public School Teachers!!! (12/28/2012 8:07:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: graceadieu quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri spanxalot15, you are barking up the wrong tree with me. In the Toledo area, brand-spanking new teachers are paid around $30k, unless they have a Master's Degree, which gets them a bump of $5k/yr. more. $30k for 9 months isn't really all that bad, and it spares you the expense of summer child care, if you so choose. So, assuming the teacher works 60 hours a week for 40 weeks, which seems pretty much in line with what I've seen, that's.... $12.50/hour, the same as what I used to make in retail as an hourly supervisor, a job which required a high school diploma and a drug test. I suppose at least there's more room for growth? why would you assume they work 60 hours a week? In this area they work around 40 hours a week. If I did the math right that is about 18.75 an hour for a starting teacher. I wonder if you also calculate the number of hours a unionized football player works during his four months of earning $3 million. Or is he being paid for the skills he brings to his employment? Teachers employ personal skills and art to achieve their tasks of nurturing and encouraging the growth of young people. And, in part we are performers on stage each and everyday. Surely worthy of more than an hourly wage on an assembly line in a factory repeating the same standardized task day in and day out. ETA: Let me emphasize, teaching is a Performing Art. It is Showtime seven or eight hours everyday, five days a week. Nevermind the take home work. It is insulting to measure the teachers' art by an hourly wage.

meatcleaver -> RE: Damn Those Overpaid, Unionized, Public School Teachers!!! (12/28/2012 8:15:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri There are two ways of looking at this. What is the level of responsibility demanded of a teacher, and is the level of compensation commensurate with that level of responsibility. As things stand right now, I do not believe teacher pay is commensurate with the level of responsibility. To qualify that, though, I fully believe the level of responsibility is the problem, not the pay. Too much is required. Reduce that demand, and the pay becomes commensurate. [edited to fix a formatting mistake] The fact you can ask for examples shows you are not informed about the educational standards of western chidren when they enter schools. Most children haven't begun to learn to read before they go to school, that is a fact. Macho culture has been identified as anti-learning, particularly amongst black boys and poorer white boys. The teacher should be employed to teach, not to be a surrogate parent. Once the teacher has to socialise children, which is an impossible task, time is being taken away from actually teaching the children. As for the level of pay being commensuratw with responsibility, we have seen a trend in the west where teachers no longer have professional respect and teaching has become a tick box exercise, causing many teachers to simply walk away and get a job elsewhere that has less responsibility and a higher remuneration. I have to admit, I left teaching mainly because the job had been turned into a production line job by politicians and when the renumeration and responsibility was taken into consideration, the choice to walk away was easy. I do occasionally teach in tertiary education just for the money but I would never ever consider teaching children again, it's a mugs game.

FatDomDaddy -> RE: Damn Those Overpaid, Unionized, Public School Teachers!!! (12/28/2012 11:49:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy FR Ya know.... The line of people who would take a job for $50k at 9 months with benefits and job security would circle the equator... Really? Why do most school districts struggle to find qualified teahcers then? No... not most... just the ones with high crime

cordeliasub -> RE: Damn Those Overpaid, Unionized, Public School Teachers!!! (12/28/2012 11:51:07 AM)
As a teacher, these are my thoughts about teachers: I believe teachers should be both peer and administration evaluated each year using a valid and standardized type instrument that includes both announced and unannounced observations, frequent walk-throughs, and a required portfolio of plans, assessments, and teaching activities. I believe that if tenure does exist, it should be contingent on a required set of "scores" using these instruments. I believe that test scores of a teacher over a three to five year period can be an accurate and effective measure. Any teacher can have a challenging group one year....but if her math scores are low five years running - she needs some help teaching math more effectively. I do think that consideration should be given to teachers who are willing to mainstream a significant number of special needs children in their class, as that WILL affect their mean/median class scores. I believe teachers should participate in a prescribed number of professional development hours each year. I believe that teaching certificates should have to be renewed every five years, and that evaluations should be used as part of the renewal process. Yes, I am an artsy person, but I am NOT touchy feely about teachers giving students their very best. I believe that parents should also have a part in the evaluation process. yes, there may be some parent who is just.....perpetually unhappy at times, but in the bigger picture, trends of parent satisfaction DO tell us something about a teacher. I do not think we give new teachers the tools they need in teacher training. I think they need more time in the classroom and less time learning about dead educational philosophers. I think they need to be taught current best practices, and I think education professors should be required to take sabbatical every five years and spend a year teaching so that they remain relevant. We make it to easy to become a teacher sometimes, I think. It should be tough to become a teacher, and those going through the program should have to be committed to kids and to learning. Now....all that being said, I think it is time for people who do not understand how a classroom works to stop making all teachers the general and easy scapegoats. And as teachers, I think complaining about it only increases their ire...because they are convinced there is no way they are wrong about it. Sometimes illumination works best. When a parent complained about how long it seemed to take the after school choir to file out to the front of the school for pickup, I told her I agreed and asked if she had any suggestions. When she did, I thanked her and asked if she could help me for a couple of weeks to incorporate them. Not only did I learn a couple of things, she had an eye opening experience when it came time or herd 85+ 8-10 years olds in a safe and organized manner from the downstairs back of the school to the upstairs front of the school. After those two weeks of helping, she never complained again about waiting and told another parent she was amazed I got them out there as well as I did ;)

Aylee -> RE: Damn Those Overpaid, Unionized, Public School Teachers!!! (12/28/2012 2:33:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML ETA: Let me emphasize, teaching is a Performing Art. It is Showtime seven or eight hours everyday, five days a week. Nevermind the take home work. It is insulting to measure the teachers' art by an hourly wage. And I damn Seasame Street for this.

DomKen -> RE: Damn Those Overpaid, Unionized, Public School Teachers!!! (12/28/2012 3:41:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy FR Ya know.... The line of people who would take a job for $50k at 9 months with benefits and job security would circle the equator... Really? Why do most school districts struggle to find qualified teahcers then? No... not most... just the ones with high crime Best do some reality checking instead of watching FNC. It is a rare district that does not have serious problems hiring enough teachers. Most states have a variety of programs to attempt to entice qualified people into teaching. While I was healthy I could have taken a drastic pay cut (over 50%) and gone to work teaching high school math at any school district in suburabn chicago (I got on a list of potential teachers somehow and they all sent me recruitment packets every year).

DesideriScuri -> RE: Damn Those Overpaid, Unionized, Public School Teachers!!! (12/28/2012 4:41:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: I have an awful lot of appreciation for the service teachers are supposed to provide. And, if we'd actually allow them to concentrate on provision of that service, I wholeheartedly believe that we would see improvements in the system, the education of the children, and our global ranking (which I think isn't as important as many seem to). And, I do think that the teaching profession does offer gain in areas that can't be financially compensated (how many teachers do not enjoy simply teaching?). Talk to a teacher about what they love about teaching and they'll tell you about the look on a child's face as a lesson sinks in and the child finally "gets it." They'll talk about touching a child's life, making some small gesture towards a student that turns a kid's life around. That shit happens, and it's all due to those who choose to teach (remember, none of them didn't get forced into a classroom, nor did they go in no knowing it wasn't going to be easy, nor did they go in without knowing the ballpark pay scale). Thank you, DS. Your comments are much appreciated by this retired high school teacher. You are very welcome.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Damn Those Overpaid, Unionized, Public School Teachers!!! (12/28/2012 4:47:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri There are two ways of looking at this. What is the level of responsibility demanded of a teacher, and is the level of compensation commensurate with that level of responsibility. As things stand right now, I do not believe teacher pay is commensurate with the level of responsibility. To qualify that, though, I fully believe the level of responsibility is the problem, not the pay. Too much is required. Reduce that demand, and the pay becomes commensurate. [edited to fix a formatting mistake] The fact you can ask for examples shows you are not informed about the educational standards of western chidren when they enter schools. Most children haven't begun to learn to read before they go to school, that is a fact. Macho culture has been identified as anti-learning, particularly amongst black boys and poorer white boys. The teacher should be employed to teach, not to be a surrogate parent. Once the teacher has to socialise children, which is an impossible task, time is being taken away from actually teaching the children. As for the level of pay being commensuratw with responsibility, we have seen a trend in the west where teachers no longer have professional respect and teaching has become a tick box exercise, causing many teachers to simply walk away and get a job elsewhere that has less responsibility and a higher remuneration. I have to admit, I left teaching mainly because the job had been turned into a production line job by politicians and when the renumeration and responsibility was taken into consideration, the choice to walk away was easy. I do occasionally teach in tertiary education just for the money but I would never ever consider teaching children again, it's a mugs game. My oldest boy went through kindergarten with a certain kid, and my twin boys went through with this certain kid's sister. Our kids went through their DayCare's kindergarten program. The only reason I mention this stuff is because these two kids my boys went through with were children of a teacher Mom and an administrator Dad in the school district we all lived in. Would have been less expensive for them to have gone through the district's kindergarten program, including before/after care, but the 1st grade teachers all told them (and us), that within 2 weeks, they could easily tell the daycare kid's from the kids that went through the district's program. No, I don't know about the education standards for new students. But, with my youngest kids in 3rd grade, I'm beyond that, and we sent our boys through a more aggressive program anyway.

TheLilSquaw -> RE: Damn Those Overpaid, Unionized, Public School Teachers!!! (12/28/2012 5:19:55 PM)
I worked in both private and public school settings for years, primarily with special needs children. I myself have a special needs child who is no longer in public school. He is autistic and on the extreme end of the spectrum. No, he didn't graduate. I choose to pull him out and home school him. He was not being educated in public school and was starting to act out. I'm an active parent, always have been and always will be when it comes to his education. Every teacher, he ever had was used to seeing my face, working with him at home, and volunteering in his classroom. For me, I had to pull him out because I saw that the school he was at, was failing him. Notice, I said the school. Not the teachers. After I pulled him out of the high school, I discovered that the last 2 years they had failed to past standardized testing requirements and were "revamping" their system. My thoughts as a parent, as a teacher of special needs students was .."Well damn! If you can't educated kids in the main stream population you sure aren't going to educate a child with special needs." He just had his 1st semester review. He is for the 1st time in 2 yrs of high school meeting his IEP goals, their words NOT mine. However, the sad reality is in a public school high school he was lost in the mix and often feel through the cracks. His special needs class had 20 students in it with 1 teacher and 2 aids. The students had various special needs ranging from extreme learning disabilities, autism, and CP. So EVERY child in that class was on a different learning level. Yet that single teacher was expected to not only educate them but follow IEPs. THAT isn't a negative reflection on the teachers but on the administration on federal guidelines. Far to many parents, for various reasons don't take an active role in their children's education. I know growing up, mine never did. A teacher isn't in this alone. Parents have a role, a responsibility as well. How can you blame teachers or a school for your child's education if you never sit down with them and do home work, if you never check to make sure it's done, if you don't make sure they get enough sleep at night and a rested for the next day, if you don't make them read on a regular basis. These are all things far to many parents do not do but when their children fail they are the 1st to blame teachers. The reality is a teacher doesn't start their school day at the 1st bell and they don't end it at the last bell. They prepare curriculum, grade work, prepare their classrooms, ect. Teaching is NOT an easy job, its can be rewarding but it also can be heart renching and thankless. I will say I am not a fan of "tenor" I have seen far to many BAD teachers hide behind it. I believe that schools and teachers should be reviewed by admins and peers on a regular basis. I believe that they should be required to continue their education especially in certain areas. I believe that parents should have to take an active role in their children's education. Even if that means simply signing their home work that you saw it.

erieangel -> RE: Damn Those Overpaid, Unionized, Public School Teachers!!! (12/28/2012 8:02:50 PM)
quote: why would you assume they work 60 hours a week? In this area they work around 40 hours a week. If I did the math right that is about 18.75 an hour for a starting teacher. Did you take into account the amount of time those teachers spend at home grading papers, preparing lesson plans and the like? In my area, first year teachers are making something around $20,000. When I was in college (18 years ago) starting salary was only $17,000. I majored in English Literature with a concentration in secondary education. I got sick before earning my degree and don't plan to get it because what else can be done with a degree in English Lit. other than teacher? Yeah, I know, there are opportunities out there for such a degree but not in my area and I'm too old, too set in my ways to relocate. I've come to the conclusion that I probably wouldn't have liked teaching. Oddly, my supervisor has thought the same. He has a BA in theology and got his teaching credentials. Upon graduating from college, he got on the sub list of several area school districts and promptly got a job at a local juvenile detention center. He has since moved into mental health and specializes in the transition age group--that group that is often falling through the cracks when they age out of the kids' system and moving into the adult system.

vincentML -> RE: Damn Those Overpaid, Unionized, Public School Teachers!!! (12/29/2012 5:42:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML ETA: Let me emphasize, teaching is a Performing Art. It is Showtime seven or eight hours everyday, five days a week. Nevermind the take home work. It is insulting to measure the teachers' art by an hourly wage. And I damn Seasame Street for this. Perhaps you are right. Perhaps we are competing with television, movies, video games, and online communities. But, I don't mean we are there to entertain. Even without the competition, the successful teacher learns to use drama, narrative, humor, and visual effects to keep the attention of hormonally raging teens and lead them to thinking, understanding, and knowledge. Otherwise, the teacher is no teacher, but a witless, boring, authoritarian lecturerer who is unable to explain the restless rebellion of her charges. The successful teacher is the one who breaks down the fourth wall and touches each student personally and supports their dignity. It has nothing to do with Sesame Street but everything to do with the nature of teenagers who are mandated to attend a classroom. Attention Deficit Disorder may really be attention teacher disorder in some cases. It is the nature of any human audience, in fact. Think of any successful presenter whether in university, the church, or the world of business. Then think of the dull professors who drove you mad with their grey presentations. My point is that what we do is not measured by the hour. There is greater value and sometimes an immeasurable, noncompensatory talent in a good teacher. All this talk of teacher overpay is moot anyway. The compensation is based upon a tax base which has shrunk for obvious reasons since 2008. Unemployment is up and working class wages are stagnant. The citizenry is nervous and insecure. It is so easy to demagogue against public employees. That's just the way it is for now.

thishereboi -> RE: Damn Those Overpaid, Unionized, Public School Teachers!!! (12/29/2012 6:09:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: graceadieu quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri spanxalot15, you are barking up the wrong tree with me. In the Toledo area, brand-spanking new teachers are paid around $30k, unless they have a Master's Degree, which gets them a bump of $5k/yr. more. $30k for 9 months isn't really all that bad, and it spares you the expense of summer child care, if you so choose. So, assuming the teacher works 60 hours a week for 40 weeks, which seems pretty much in line with what I've seen, that's.... $12.50/hour, the same as what I used to make in retail as an hourly supervisor, a job which required a high school diploma and a drug test. I suppose at least there's more room for growth? why would you assume they work 60 hours a week? In this area they work around 40 hours a week. If I did the math right that is about 18.75 an hour for a starting teacher. I wonder if you also calculate the number of hours a unionized football player works during his four months of earning $3 million. Or is he being paid for the skills he brings to his employment? Teachers employ personal skills and art to achieve their tasks of nurturing and encouraging the growth of young people. And, in part we are performers on stage each and everyday. Surely worthy of more than an hourly wage on an assembly line in a factory repeating the same standardized task day in and day out. ETA: Let me emphasize, teaching is a Performing Art. It is Showtime seven or eight hours everyday, five days a week. Nevermind the take home work. It is insulting to measure the teachers' art by an hourly wage. Well wonder no more...no I won't. If you want to know how a football player is paid, you are going to have to do the work yourself because to be honest, I really don't care. Maybe if you are that interested you could start a thread on the subject. As to your assembly line comparison, most of the crap assembly jobs start between 8 and 10 an hour in this area so you don't have worry about them making as much.

Aylee -> RE: Damn Those Overpaid, Unionized, Public School Teachers!!! (12/29/2012 2:56:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML ETA: Let me emphasize, teaching is a Performing Art. It is Showtime seven or eight hours everyday, five days a week. Nevermind the take home work. It is insulting to measure the teachers' art by an hourly wage. And I damn Seasame Street for this. Perhaps you are right. Perhaps we are competing with television, movies, video games, and online communities. But, I don't mean we are there to entertain. Even without the competition, the successful teacher learns to use drama, narrative, humor, and visual effects to keep the attention of hormonally raging teens and lead them to thinking, understanding, and knowledge. Otherwise, the teacher is no teacher, but a witless, boring, authoritarian lecturerer who is unable to explain the restless rebellion of her charges. The successful teacher is the one who breaks down the fourth wall and touches each student personally and supports their dignity. It has nothing to do with Sesame Street but everything to do with the nature of teenagers who are mandated to attend a classroom. Attention Deficit Disorder may really be attention teacher disorder in some cases. It is the nature of any human audience, in fact. Think of any successful presenter whether in university, the church, or the world of business. Then think of the dull professors who drove you mad with their grey presentations. Well, that is part of it. Also the idea that learning must always be fun and never hard work.

vincentML -> RE: Damn Those Overpaid, Unionized, Public School Teachers!!! (12/29/2012 5:02:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML ETA: Let me emphasize, teaching is a Performing Art. It is Showtime seven or eight hours everyday, five days a week. Nevermind the take home work. It is insulting to measure the teachers' art by an hourly wage. And I damn Seasame Street for this. Perhaps you are right. Perhaps we are competing with television, movies, video games, and online communities. But, I don't mean we are there to entertain. Even without the competition, the successful teacher learns to use drama, narrative, humor, and visual effects to keep the attention of hormonally raging teens and lead them to thinking, understanding, and knowledge. Otherwise, the teacher is no teacher, but a witless, boring, authoritarian lecturerer who is unable to explain the restless rebellion of her charges. The successful teacher is the one who breaks down the fourth wall and touches each student personally and supports their dignity. It has nothing to do with Sesame Street but everything to do with the nature of teenagers who are mandated to attend a classroom. Attention Deficit Disorder may really be attention teacher disorder in some cases. It is the nature of any human audience, in fact. Think of any successful presenter whether in university, the church, or the world of business. Then think of the dull professors who drove you mad with their grey presentations. Well, that is part of it. Also the idea that learning must always be fun and never hard work. Okay. You make a good point. But, it is amazing how industrious children and adults can become at learning when they are reward oriented, when they have identified a goal they wish to achieve. Isn't it the task of the public schools to present a menu of opportunities? So, we assign a kid to study algebra and he will say "wtf?" I disliked chemistry class in high school . . and lo, I came to love it and teach it as an adult. Ya just never know what magic will come about.

graceadieu -> RE: Damn Those Overpaid, Unionized, Public School Teachers!!! (12/29/2012 11:59:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: graceadieu quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri spanxalot15, you are barking up the wrong tree with me. In the Toledo area, brand-spanking new teachers are paid around $30k, unless they have a Master's Degree, which gets them a bump of $5k/yr. more. $30k for 9 months isn't really all that bad, and it spares you the expense of summer child care, if you so choose. So, assuming the teacher works 60 hours a week for 40 weeks, which seems pretty much in line with what I've seen, that's.... $12.50/hour, the same as what I used to make in retail as an hourly supervisor, a job which required a high school diploma and a drug test. I suppose at least there's more room for growth? why would you assume they work 60 hours a week? In this area they work around 40 hours a week. If I did the math right that is about 18.75 an hour for a starting teacher. They spend 40 hours at the school - and then go home and grade their students' assignments and develop new lesson plans and assignments. And where I went to high school they were also required to coach a sport, sponsor a club, or chaperone events after school as part of their job. I was on the stage crew, and when we were working on a show (probably half the year), the theater teacher would be there every afternoon for 2 or 3 hours after school let out. A lot of teachers also tutored students that needed more help before or after school. So 60 hours a week is a guesstimate, but I don't think it's an unreasonable one.

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