RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys won't bother you

RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys won't bother you (Full Version)

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kdsub -> RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys won't bother you (12/26/2012 10:00:26 AM)
[:D] I like that one my friend

Okeanos -> RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys won't bother you (12/26/2012 10:30:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subspaceseven quote: (*1) funny, how the USA has never been attacked on its own land, so these creatively named "Defense" forces have never been actually used for defense, only for assaulting other nations. Not true, we had 5 mainland attacks during WW 2, now perhaps not very effective, but attacks none the less... here is a list and details of all 5 http://www.history.com/news/history-lists/5-attacks-on-u-s-soil-during-world-war-ii Yup, subspaceseven, I stand corrected! Everyone please go over and read all about every single one of those... 5 (yes 5) mainland attacks! The "largest invasion of American soil during World War II" involved 8 (I repeat: eight) spies and it died before managing to blow up even a fire hydrant. I suppose you are joking, aren't you?

Okeanos -> RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys won't bother you (12/26/2012 10:33:15 AM)
quote: A day later, reports of enemy aircraft led to the so-called “Battle of Los Angeles,” in which American artillery was discharged over Los Angeles for several hours due to the mistaken belief that the Japanese were invading. How absolutely typical!

Yachtie -> RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys won't bother you (12/26/2012 11:00:52 AM)
fr I'm my own first responder, if you get my drift.[:D]

Okeanos -> RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys won't bother you (12/26/2012 11:02:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stef Ignoring the rest of the stupidity here, if a country declares war against you, you really can't call striking back a "surprise attack". Pearl Harbor was a surprise attack. Pearl Harbor was an attack on a military base. 2,386 Americans died, of which about 50 were civilians, most killed by unexploded USAian anti-aircraft shells landing in civilian areas. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed when the outcome of the war had already been determined, under the laughable pretense that the invasion of Japan would cost many USAian lives. (As if someone was twisting USA's arm to invade.) The death toll of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was 150,000 to 250,000 people, of which the vast majority were civilians, and that's the conservative estimates. You really should get a clue about the meaning of the term "PROPORTION". Furthermore, Pearl Harbor was an attack that was absolutely known to be within the capabilities of the Japanese war machine, the USA even suspected it was coming, and it was an inevitable means to start a war which, at that point in time, the governments of both countries could not wait to get into. In other words, it was fair game. (As much as I'd hate to call an act of war a fair game.) The complete wipe-out of entire cities from the map was not known to be within the capabilities of anyone's war machine, and it served no purpose, since the japanese would have surrendered upon learning that the USA had this capability, without requiring a demonstration. Therefore, it was not fair game. So, I suppose you are one of those USAians who, even today, feel no shame for what happened to Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I don't need to bestow any insults upon you about that, you are taking care of it on your own.

stef -> RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys won't bother you (12/26/2012 12:11:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Okeanos The complete wipe-out of entire cities from the map was not known to be within the capabilities of anyone's war machine, and it served no purpose, since the japanese would have surrendered upon learning that the USA had this capability, without requiring a demonstration. How could you possibly know what Japan would have done? I doubt you have any special insight into the emperor's thoughts during that time. At any rate, if they would have surrendered after knowing such a device existed, why didn't they surrender after the first bomb was dropped? quote: So, I suppose you are one of those USAians who, even today, feel no shame for what happened to Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I suppose only an idiot would make such baseless assumptions, but you seem rather fond of making baseless assumptions.

Okeanos -> RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys won't bother you (12/26/2012 3:16:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stef How could you possibly know what Japan would have done? What do you think they could do? Pull some ninja trick and go invisible or something? quote: ORIGINAL: stef I doubt you have any special insight into the emperor's thoughts during that time. It is generally agreed upon by all who know didly shit about WWII that by that time, most of the japanese government and army leadership were hoping for a quick and easy way to surrender, the only concern having come down to how much face they were going to have to lose. quote: ORIGINAL: stef At any rate, if they would have surrendered after knowing such a device existed, why didn't they surrender after the first bomb was dropped? Well, I don't know why they did not surrender within the over-generously ample time of 72 hours, but I am sure you will tell us your great theory, smart guy! quote: ORIGINAL: stef quote: So, I suppose you are one of those USAians who, even today, feel no shame for what happened to Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I suppose only an idiot would make such baseless assumptions, but you seem rather fond of making baseless assumptions. Oh? Really? Well, let's for a moment suppose that calling the annihilation of Hiroshima and Nagasaki an instance of a "strike back" for Pearl Harbor does not in any way imply that you feel no shame for it. Let's for a moment suppose that no conclusions can be drawn from such a statement. Let's suppose it is "unclear". So, you go ahead and tell in no uncertain terms that you are in fact ashamed and I will promptly admit that I have made a baseless assumption!

stef -> RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys won't bother you (12/26/2012 3:41:05 PM)
Bless your heart.

SimplyMichael -> RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys won't bother you (12/26/2012 3:54:17 PM)
Painting the Japanese as some sort of victim is blind ignorance, just ask the women of Korea who they forced into sexual slavery, or those in Nanking after the Japanese pillaged and raped them, or the chinese who they used for live experiments in the use of biological warefare. We forced Japan into war forgets they had spent years at war invading the east coast of asia and the British and French colonies...oh and the did their best to destroy our navy so they continue their conquest of asia.

Hillwilliam -> RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys won't bother you (12/26/2012 4:18:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Okeanos Yup, subspaceseven, I stand corrected! Everyone please go over and read all about every single one of those... 5 (yes 5) mainland attacks! The "largest invasion of American soil during World War II" involved 8 (I repeat: eight) spies and it died before managing to blow up even a fire hydrant. I suppose you are joking, aren't you? You asked for attacks, not successful attacks. As for your claim of The "largest invasion of American soil during World War II", you seem to forget the bases the Japanese set up in the Aleutian Islands. Those were American soil and they were invaded and actually held for a period of time. Do try to not look quite so ignorant next time.[8\|]

LookieNoNookie -> RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys won't bother you (12/26/2012 4:53:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto Another option: [image]local://upfiles/42188/E31CDCCE2559460FBF0B3326D50133EC.jpg[/image] Love it :)

SimplyMichael -> RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys won't bother you (12/26/2012 4:59:08 PM)
Lucky for us the rats laced with pneumonic plague never worked.

BamaD -> RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys won't bother you (12/26/2012 5:24:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Okeanos I guess what bugs me most about this analogy is the historical ignorance that it exhibits: when the USA developed the bomb, they did not announce that they did, nor did they demonstrate it by blowing off the top of Mt Fuji or some uninhabited island; instead, they performed two surprise attacks against fleshy targets containing huge numbers of civilians. So, historically, a more apt analogy would be "if you one day go buy yourself a gun, why not go meet that guy you frequently get into fistfights with, and surprise him by blowing his head off?" Hiroshima was known by the Japanese as the city of soldiers due to the massive military presence there

BamaD -> RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys won't bother you (12/26/2012 5:27:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Okeanos quote: ORIGINAL: subspaceseven quote: (*1) funny, how the USA has never been attacked on its own land, so these creatively named "Defense" forces have never been actually used for defense, only for assaulting other nations. Not true, we had 5 mainland attacks during WW 2, now perhaps not very effective, but attacks none the less... here is a list and details of all 5 http://www.history.com/news/history-lists/5-attacks-on-u-s-soil-during-world-war-ii Yup, subspaceseven, I stand corrected! Everyone please go over and read all about every single one of those... 5 (yes 5) mainland attacks! The "largest invasion of American soil during World War II" involved 8 (I repeat: eight) spies and it died before managing to blow up even a fire hydrant. I suppose you are joking, aren't you? You do know that the Japanese occupied several of the alutian islands until 44 that included far more than 5 men

BamaD -> RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys won't bother you (12/26/2012 5:32:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Okeanos quote: ORIGINAL: stef Ignoring the rest of the stupidity here, if a country declares war against you, you really can't call striking back a "surprise attack". Pearl Harbor was a surprise attack. Pearl Harbor was an attack on a military base. 2,386 Americans died, of which about 50 were civilians, most killed by unexploded USAian anti-aircraft shells landing in civilian areas. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed when the outcome of the war had already been determined, under the laughable pretense that the invasion of Japan would cost many USAian lives. (As if someone was twisting USA's arm to invade.) The death toll of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was 150,000 to 250,000 people, of which the vast majority were civilians, and that's the conservative estimates. You really should get a clue about the meaning of the term "PROPORTION". Furthermore, Pearl Harbor was an attack that was absolutely known to be within the capabilities of the Japanese war machine, the USA even suspected it was coming, and it was an inevitable means to start a war which, at that point in time, the governments of both countries could not wait to get into. In other words, it was fair game. (As much as I'd hate to call an act of war a fair game.) The complete wipe-out of entire cities from the map was not known to be within the capabilities of anyone's war machine, and it served no purpose, since the japanese would have surrendered upon learning that the USA had this capability, without requiring a demonstration. Therefore, it was not fair game. So, I suppose you are one of those USAians who, even today, feel no shame for what happened to Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I don't need to bestow any insults upon you about that, you are taking care of it on your own. Wrong or Nagasaki would never happened. the Japanese stratigy at that time was to drag the war out and inflict enough American casualties that we would tire of the war and go home. They had at the time a program to hit San Diego with bubonic plauge and would have used it had we not brought the war to a swift and dramatic end.

BamaD -> RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys won't bother you (12/26/2012 5:34:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Okeanos quote: ORIGINAL: stef Ignoring the rest of the stupidity here, if a country declares war against you, you really can't call striking back a "surprise attack". Pearl Harbor was a surprise attack. Pearl Harbor was an attack on a military base. 2,386 Americans died, of which about 50 were civilians, most killed by unexploded USAian anti-aircraft shells landing in civilian areas. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed when the outcome of the war had already been determined, under the laughable pretense that the invasion of Japan would cost many USAian lives. (As if someone was twisting USA's arm to invade.) The death toll of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was 150,000 to 250,000 people, of which the vast majority were civilians, and that's the conservative estimates. You really should get a clue about the meaning of the term "PROPORTION". Furthermore, Pearl Harbor was an attack that was absolutely known to be within the capabilities of the Japanese war machine, the USA even suspected it was coming, and it was an inevitable means to start a war which, at that point in time, the governments of both countries could not wait to get into. In other words, it was fair game. (As much as I'd hate to call an act of war a fair game.) The complete wipe-out of entire cities from the map was not known to be within the capabilities of anyone's war machine, and it served no purpose, since the japanese would have surrendered upon learning that the USA had this capability, without requiring a demonstration. Therefore, it was not fair game. So, I suppose you are one of those USAians who, even today, feel no shame for what happened to Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I don't need to bestow any insults upon you about that, you are taking care of it on your own. the nukes most likely saved the lives of mearly a million Japanese civilians so I feel no shame. The moral of this is don't puch a grzzly in the nose

Okeanos -> RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys won't bother you (12/26/2012 5:41:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam You asked for attacks, not successful attacks. So, you consider any one of the incidents described on that page as ATTACKS? [image]local://upfiles/1272924/FC1D72F281A842EE9B83AA6550DE710B.jpg[/image]

Hillwilliam -> RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys won't bother you (12/26/2012 5:59:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Okeanos quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam You asked for attacks, not successful attacks. So, you consider any one of the incidents described on that page as ATTACKS? The last time I looked, shelling a military base or an oil field (strategic infrastructure) would be considered an attack. Did you read the article? CAN you read the article? The more you post, the more ignorance you show.

Okeanos -> RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys won't bother you (12/26/2012 6:22:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam As for your claim of The "largest invasion of American soil during World War II", you seem to forget the bases the Japanese set up in the Aleutian Islands. Those were American soil and they were invaded and actually held for a period of time. What are you, reading impaired? It was not my claim, it was the claim of the page that subspaceseven linked to. Now, before subspaceseven's comment, my statement was that the USA has never been attacked on its own land. So, great, you found a single instance of an attack on US soil, so it appears I must stand corrected after all. Now, I went and I read about it, and it turns out that the attack on the Aleutian islands was in fact an attempt by the Japanese to create a distraction in preparation to their attack on Midway. The USA did not even respond to this offense, because they had broken the Japanese codes and knew what the Japanese were up to. Those two Aleutian islands out in the middle of nowhere were such small beans, that the USA did not even bother counter-attacking to take them back from the Japanese for six whole months. In any case, my original comment was about the irony of the USA spending as much as the rest of the world combined on something they call "Defense", while in fact all they do with it is attacking other nations. You will have to do a lot better than mention the Aleutian islands, or any other conflict dating from 1941, to justify the existence of that monstrosity today. And please, next time, you try being less obnoxious.

Okeanos -> RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys won't bother you (12/26/2012 6:31:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Painting the Japanese as some sort of victim is blind ignorance, just ask[...] Equating "the Japanese" (population, including civilians) with Japanese Imperialism is blind ignorance. To say that "the Japanese did this and that and the other, therefore Hiroshima and Nagasaki had it coming" is worse than blind ignorance, it is blind stupidity. In any case I did not paint the Japanese as some sort of victim. I painted the US government and war machine as some sort of unaccountable, ruthless, barbaric, global scale murderer. You do get the difference, don't you?

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