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RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys ... - 12/26/2012 6:36:34 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Okeanos

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
As for your claim of The "largest invasion of American soil during World War II", you seem to forget the bases the Japanese set up in the Aleutian Islands. Those were American soil and they were invaded and actually held for a period of time.

What are you, reading impaired? It was not my claim, it was the claim of the page that subspaceseven linked to.

Now, before subspaceseven's comment, my statement was that the USA has never been attacked on its own land. So, great, you found a single instance of an attack on US soil, so it appears I must stand corrected after all. Now, I went and I read about it, and it turns out that the attack on the Aleutian islands was in fact an attempt by the Japanese to create a distraction in preparation to their attack on Midway. The USA did not even respond to this offense, because they had broken the Japanese codes and knew what the Japanese were up to. Those two Aleutian islands out in the middle of nowhere were such small beans, that the USA did not even bother counter-attacking to take them back from the Japanese for six whole months.

In any case, my original comment was about the irony of the USA spending as much as the rest of the world combined on something they call "Defense", while in fact all they do with it is attacking other nations. You will have to do a lot better than mention the Aleutian islands, or any other conflict dating from 1941, to justify the existence of that monstrosity today.

And please, next time, you try being less obnoxious.

You asked for one attack. You got several.
Now, you're backpedaling and saying "butbutbut what I REALLY meant was."

BULLSHIT.

You posted ignorant bullshit and got called on it.

Please, next time have your head out of your ass before you post.

Is that non obnoxious enough for you?

_____________________________

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Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Okeanos)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys ... - 12/26/2012 6:44:34 PM   
Okeanos


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Hiroshima was known by the Japanese as the city of soldiers due to the massive military presence there

I wrote of "targets containing huge numbers of civilians". I did not say "targets without any military".

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys ... - 12/26/2012 6:48:25 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Considering the US did not start the bombing of civilian targets in WW2, the Japanese were bombing Chinese cities in the early thirties, and then there was Germany, followed by Great Britain who started bombing German cities AFTER London was bombed, and you want to blast the US for dropping an Atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys ... - 12/26/2012 7:07:08 PM   
punisher440


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Okeanos

I guess what bugs me most about this analogy is the historical ignorance that it exhibits: when the USA developed the bomb, they did not announce that they did, nor did they demonstrate it by blowing off the top of Mt Fuji or some uninhabited island; instead, they performed two surprise attacks against fleshy targets containing huge numbers of civilians. So, historically, a more apt analogy would be "if you one day go buy yourself a gun, why not go meet that guy you frequently get into fistfights with, and surprise him by blowing his head off?"

Maybe you need to read a little before saying the U.S. performed two surprise atomic attacks,read here and find out the U.S. Air Force dropped leaflets on most major cities starting 5 days before the bomb was dropped on Hiroshima.That is in addition to radio warnings broadcast every 15 minutes from Saipan warning the civilians to leave the cities.After the first bomb,they dropped even more leaflets warning them to surrender.Yet you,like most history rewriters, tend to forget the Japanese did do a sneak attack on the U.S. at Pearl Harbor[and no warnings given there]and anything that we did after that was in response to them.Maybe the next time Europe,and that includes Greece,gets their hindies in a crack we[meaning the U.S.] don't need to waste our men's lives or our national wealth to defend and liberate a bunch of ungrateful malcontents.

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys ... - 12/26/2012 7:10:11 PM   
Okeanos


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From: Athens, Greece
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
The last time I looked, shelling a military base or an oil field (strategic infrastructure) would be considered an attack.

Did you read the article?

Did YOU read the article?

Quoting from it: "Just before midnight, I-25 used its 140-millimeter deck gun to fire 17 shells at the fort. Believing that the muzzle flashes of the fort’s guns would only serve to more clearly reveal their position, the commander of Fort Stevens ordered his men not to return fire. The plan worked, and the bombardment was almost totally unsuccessful—a nearby baseball field bore the brunt of the damage."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
You asked for one attack. You got several.

Go back and read, if you can, and you will see that I did not ask for anything, you idjit!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Now, you're backpedaling and saying "butbutbut what I REALLY meant was."

BULLSHIT.

You posted ignorant bullshit and got called on it.

That's your wishful interpretation of what has happened.
I wrote what I meant and I meant what I wrote.
I have already said that I stand corrected, so the phrase "funny, how the USA has never been attacked on its own land" should have been "funny, how the USA has virtually never been attacked on its own land". The point I was making has not taken a dent.

On the other hand you have been trying to suggest that the USA does very by spending $700bn annually for something they call "Defense" because back in the 1940s there were in fact a couple of laughable attack attempts on its soil. Way to go, you are doing great.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Please, next time have your head out of your ass before you post.

Is that non obnoxious enough for you?

If you want to prove that you can be more obnoxious there need be no contest between the two of us, I give it to you, you win!

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys ... - 12/26/2012 8:14:08 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003
what they actually did was to put up a prcise road map for would-be gun thiefs as to exactly which houses they should hit while the owners aren't at home.

that was pretty much my thought too..

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys ... - 12/26/2012 8:39:00 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Okeanos

I have already said that I stand corrected, so the phrase "funny, how the USA has never been attacked on its own land" should have been "funny, how the USA has virtually never been attacked on its own land". The point I was making has not taken a dent.

obnoxious there need be no contest between the two of us, I give it to you, you win!

My point exactly. Your post was bullshit.
You posted something and then backpedaled when informed that you were incorrect.

butbutbutbut I MEANT to say.......
If you MEANT successful attack, or VIRTUALLY never, you would have said it.


"I wrote what I meant and I meant what I wrote." is your quote.

Which is it?

Did you mean to say something different or did you write what you didn't mean or are you ignorant or are you just a lying troll?

Maybe the reason the US isn't attacked militarily on their own soil in the post WWII era is the same reason 300# bikers aren't attacked.
It's suicidal.

There need be no contect as to who is the most ignorant between us 2. I give it to you, you win.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Okeanos)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys ... - 12/26/2012 9:17:39 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
you want to blast the US for dropping an Atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Those two cities were the only two Christian cities in Japan. The bombings of those two cities are a rather convincing argument that the USA and Japan were in cahoots with one another and that the whole Pacific war was a scam. (As was the rest of WWII.)


_____________________________

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"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys ... - 12/26/2012 9:23:03 PM   
Hillwilliam


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Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
you want to blast the US for dropping an Atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Those two cities were the only two Christian cities in Japan.

Got a shred of evidence that isnt utter bullshit?

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys ... - 12/26/2012 10:07:40 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Those two cities were the only two Christian cities in Japan. The bombings of those two cities are a rather convincing argument that the USA and Japan were in cahoots with one another and that the whole Pacific war was a scam. (As was the rest of WWII.)

Nagasaki was not the mission. The mission was the huge ammunition arsenal at Kokura. But when they arrived over Kokura, under orders only to bomb visually, they found the city too obscured by haze and smoke for a visual bomb run on the target. They went around three times, attracting the friendly interest of anti-aircraft batteries and Zeros, before finally abandoning the Kokura mission for their secondary target option, the two large Mitsubishi war plants at Nagasaki.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 12/26/2012 10:09:16 PM >

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys ... - 12/26/2012 10:09:07 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		Sure: it is called Pearl Harbor. (I guess that they eat a lot of oisters over there.)

_____________________________

"I tend to pay attention when Rule speaks" - Aswad

"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys ... - 12/26/2012 10:16:21 PM   
SimplyMichael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
you want to blast the US for dropping an Atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Those two cities were the only two Christian cities in Japan. The bombings of those two cities are a rather convincing argument that the USA and Japan were in cahoots with one another and that the whole Pacific war was a scam. (As was the rest of WWII.)



Okay, you got to explain this one for me!

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys ... - 12/26/2012 10:17:55 PM   
Rule


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Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
when they arrived over Kokura, under orders only to bomb visually, they found the city too obscured by haze and smoke for a visual bomb run on the target

And who fire-bombed Yahata, deliberately causing Kokura to be obscured, and thus causing Nagasaki to become the target?

Subterfuge, Subterfuge, how adroit is thy disguise.


_____________________________

"I tend to pay attention when Rule speaks" - Aswad

"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys ... - 12/26/2012 10:24:48 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Okeanos

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Hiroshima was known by the Japanese as the city of soldiers due to the massive military presence there

I wrote of "targets containing huge numbers of civilians". I did not say "targets without any military".

It was a military target hidden amongst civilians if anyone deserves blame for the civilian deaths it is the Japanese government

(in reply to Okeanos)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys ... - 12/26/2012 10:31:43 PM   
SimplyMichael


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Status: offline 		We nuked japan partly so we didnt have to invade and partly so we didn't have to fight the Russians.

We didn't start a war of agression with Japan, she got what she deserved, if you dont like being bombed, don't start massive wars of conquest.

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys ... - 12/26/2012 10:36:54 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

We nuked japan partly so we didnt have to invade and partly so we didn't have to fight the Russians.

We didn't start a war of agression with Japan, she got what she deserved, if you dont like being bombed, don't start massive wars of conquest.

They bombed us we bombed them back we were just better at it

< Message edited by BamaD -- 12/26/2012 10:37:23 PM >

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RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys ... - 12/26/2012 11:04:31 PM   
JeffBC


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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
They bombed us we bombed them back we were just better at it

in short, yes. And for that reason I feel no shame over the bombings. But I generally agree with the OP that the US likes to cloak itself in motherhood & apple pie but the reality doesn't measure up. I can live wi "we are badasses". But "spreading freedom and democracy" is just plain propaganda in my mind.

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys ... - 12/26/2012 11:07:50 PM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

There need be no contect as to who is the most ignorant between us 2. I give it to you, you win.

I think it's pretty clear to everyone here who "won" that contest.

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys ... - 12/27/2012 2:59:10 AM   
Okeanos


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From: Athens, Greece
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Considering the US did not start the bombing of civilian targets in WW2, the Japanese were bombing Chinese cities in the early thirties, and then there was Germany, followed by Great Britain who started bombing German cities AFTER London was bombed, and you want to blast the US for dropping an Atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Uh, that's right. You got it.
Your reasoning is a bit faulty, but you arrive at the right conclusion.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: If they know you're armed, you're safer - Bad guys ... - 12/27/2012 4:24:42 AM   
Okeanos


Posts: 62
Joined: 9/1/2011
From: Athens, Greece
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: punisher440
Maybe you need to read a little before saying the U.S. performed two surprise atomic attacks,read here and find out the U.S. Air Force dropped leaflets on most major cities starting 5 days before the bomb was dropped on Hiroshima.That is in addition to radio warnings broadcast every 15 minutes from Saipan warning the civilians to leave the cities.After the first bomb,they dropped even more leaflets warning them to surrender.

Maybe *you* need to read a little about war in general, and also gain at least a bit of grip on reality. Propaganda and psychological warfare has always been an integral part of every war. Leaflets, radio transmissions, and even loudspeakers in the barricades of each side blasting demoralizing messages to the barricades of the other side were very common in all theaters of the WWII, targeting both civilians and soldiers. In virtually every case of this kind, the only reasonable thing to do for each side was to ignore them, of course.

But even if an exception was to be somehow made to those particular propaganda messages that you are referring to, just think: the article you pointed to admits that the leaflets were dropped on 35 cities, and that this was done just 5 days before the bombings. Here comes the hard part, the one which requires the thinking: Where was the population of 35 cities supposed to go? How could the evacuation of entire cities be accomplished in 5 days? And how could the authorities of Japan, or of any country in their shoes, possibly permit such a massive panicky exodus of civilians from urban centers in response to propaganda? The only thing those leaflets accomplished was to make those who dropped them feel better. Just as dropping the bombs a few days later made them feel better. If you want to feel better, suit yourself, but oh, what a poor excuse for self-exoneration!

quote:

ORIGINAL: punisher440
Yet you,like most history rewriters, tend to forget the Japanese did do a sneak attack on the U.S. at Pearl Harbor[and no warnings given there]and anything that we did after that was in response to them.


Before making such fanciful accusations as calling me a "history rewriter", please do bother to read the entire thread, or at least all of my previous comments.

quote:

ORIGINAL: punisher440
Maybe the next time Europe,and that includes Greece,gets their hindies in a crack we[meaning the U.S.] don't need to waste our men's lives or our national wealth to defend and liberate a bunch of ungrateful malcontents.


Uh-oh! I guess I better shut up now, lest my careless talk spares my people from some future "Operation Greek Freedom" or something. We would not want to miss the chance to have some Usaian "defense and liberation" raining down on us, as has happened to so many others so close to us here, that you could smell their bodies burning.

< Message edited by Okeanos -- 12/27/2012 4:29:15 AM >

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