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RE: The decline of collarme - 1/9/2013 2:10:18 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		If you have it in these forums, then the attitude of posting in that area, can well spill out into the other areas. I am reminded of P&R when it was not moderated very much, and you see a regular their post in another area with similar style.

You will also see the area slowly become controlled by whatever large group is all friends with each other. I have seen this in other forums (used to be called bulletin board systems), mail lists and groups. If people think there is some issue with a single attitude and mindset being the only one allowed now, just let mob rule take over and see what happens.

I personally believe people go over the top with ridicule and what they would say in an online venue, that many of them wouldn't dare say in a more face to face setting. Yes there are some, but the anonymity of the internet empowers people way beyond how they would normally act.

I also believe we have hyper partisanship happening her in these forums, similar to how politics and society is becoming. As each side of this issue gets more extreme, the other counters with more extreme. The middle ground must be found in any problem solving between people.


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I also think the NON moderated forum will be somewhat self moderating. If there is someone I continually dislike their posting style I will just hide their posts. If enough do this, as I think will happen, then the dumb ass will be irrelevant and eventually will stop posting if he or she can’t get a rise.

Butch



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Profile   Post #: 941
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/9/2013 2:10:48 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida



It depends on context, I suppose. Words are just words. What you're doing with them is what matters.


That is presisely the point.

When we cannot say that a person who cannot read or write is "illiterate" or that a person who lacks knowledge is "ignorant" because someone might feel 'hurt' even though that is the precise definition of the word we might as well only post [Censored] for every reply to every question.

Right. That would, in my opinion, fall too far out of what I'd consider balanced. In the other direction, so would allowing people to call someone an ignorant piece of shit. Balanced moderation is the key.

I didn't say "ignorant piece of shit" I said 'ignorant' which is defined as Websters as "lacking knowledge of a subject".

For instance, I am ignorant of accounting practices.
I am also ignorant of salvage law.
Those are just 2 things that I am ignorant of.

Once again, you are reading things that aren't written.

I was using an example, which I made up, in my own head. I was giving examples, of two different things that I would think would be out of balance in moderation. Moderating (removing/sending golden letter) "you are ignorant" is extreme. Allowing (keeping in the thread, NOT sending golden letter) "you are an ignorant piece of shit" is extreme in the other direction.

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(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 942
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/9/2013 2:11:22 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I've just seen unmoderated groups eventually die because everyone got tired of the over-the-top bickering, eventually.


That would be a good thing then right?...Remember it is an added forum...no change to the existing forums...It would just serve the purposes I've outlined above.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 943
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/9/2013 2:13:19 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

I've just seen unmoderated groups eventually die because everyone got tired of the over-the-top bickering, eventually.


That would be a good thing then right?...Remember it is an added forum...no change to the existing forums...It would just serve the purposes I've outlined above.

Butch

Possibly. Again, I'm not discounting the idea, just a little skeptical about the success of one.

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Profile   Post #: 944
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/9/2013 2:15:31 PM   
Kaliko


Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

[
I also think the NON moderated forum will be somewhat self moderating. If there is someone I continually dislike their posting style I will just hide their posts. If enough do this, as I think will happen, then the dumb ass will be irrelevant and eventually will stop posting if he or she can’t get a rise.

Butch


I agree. I used to really dislike the posting styles of "Hannah," et al. After a few tries to engage, I pretty much ignored them completely. And after a few pokes on "their" part, they pretty much ignored me completely. It worked out well. They still posted, certainly, but their posts were irrelevant to me.

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Profile   Post #: 945
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/9/2013 2:16:04 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


Perhaps. And I'm not totally discounting the idea. I've just seen unmoderated groups eventually die because everyone got tired of the over-the-top bickering, eventually.

FET has been around for 5 years as of last week and claims 1.7 million members. I have yet to see a Nigerian scammer or slave seller there and damn few of the 18 yo pay piggie seekers or spammers.
That is an average GAIN of approximately 1000 members/day for 5 years
It's about as close to non moderated as you can find. As long as you don't promote illegal activities, each 'room owner' sets the rules and you're good to go.

I checked the other day on CM and around 160 people (m, f, tg and couples) had joined in the previous 24 hours. Of those, there were significant numbers of Nigerian scammers, 'slave sellers', 18 yo pay piggy seekers, camsite hucksters and other assorted miscreants.
Is that enough to make up for those who leave or are booted every day?
does CM has a net gain or loss? If it's growing, it's not quickly.

Is it dying?

Does anyone remember alt.com? 10 years ago, that place rocked. Just for the hell of it, I ran a check a few months ago for female subs of any age that had been active within the last 2 weeks within 50 miles. There were 12.

It died. This place is not "Too big to fail" but if language is restricted to the point of nursery school, it might.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 946
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/9/2013 2:17:13 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Orion please remember this is not a change to the existing forums... just a temporary place for a thread to go to be moderated without closing it down completely and loosing all the good posts.

The rest is an option if you chose to participate. Myself I would not except to continue in a thread that I think important that under the rules today would be closed down.

Let the ding bats that want to degrade each other have at it I don't care...do you?

If they come back to the standard forum and make trouble then permanently get rid of them...simple and easier on the moderators too.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 947
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/9/2013 2:17:55 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


A bunch of hysteria? Really? Hysteria?

We must have very different definitions of hysteria.
As in, because it's a site full of sadists, then people should know sadists are going to be mean here.
Please tell me where you see hysteria.

Right there.

"then people should know sadists are going to be mean here."

I did not say that did I? You said that.

I said "It's a site full of Sadists"

You are the one who came up with nonconsensual kink.
You are the one who said they are going to be mean here.
You are the one who turned "ignorant" into "ignorant piece of shit" in a different post.
You are the one who equated mean words in a chatsite to "But using this logic means I could walk into a BDSM club and start smacking people around, saying "Well I'm a sadist - it's a club full of fucking sadists for fucks sake."

It that isn't hysteria....................

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 1/9/2013 2:25:06 PM >

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 948
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/9/2013 2:20:32 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


Perhaps. And I'm not totally discounting the idea. I've just seen unmoderated groups eventually die because everyone got tired of the over-the-top bickering, eventually.

FET has been around for 5 years as of last week and claims 1.7 million members. I have yet to see a Nigerian scammer or slave seller there and damn few of the 18 yo pay piggie seekers or spammers.
That is an average GAIN of approximately 1000 members/day for 5 years
It's about as close to non moderated as you can find. As long as you don't promote illegal activities, each 'room owner' sets the rules and you're good to go.

I checked the other day on CM and around 160 people (m, f, tg and couples) had joined in the previous 24 hours. Of those, there were significant numbers of Nigerian scammers, 'slave sellers', 18 yo pay piggy seekers, camsite hucksters and other assorted miscreants.
Is that enough to make up for those who leave or are booted every day?
does CM has a net gain or loss? If it's growing, it's not quickly.

Is it dying?

Does anyone remember alt.com? 10 years ago, that place rocked. Just for the hell of it, I ran a check a few months ago for female subs of any age that had been active within the last 2 weeks within 50 miles. There were 12.

It died. This place is not "Too big to fail" but if language is restricted to the point of nursery school, it might.

I was referring to "room owners" choosing to not moderate their groups. The ones I was a part of ended up fizzling.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



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Profile   Post #: 949
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/9/2013 2:22:27 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


A bunch of hysteria? Really? Hysteria?

We must have very different definitions of hysteria.

I think you're missing our point. You said "As far as being 'mean' to people. It's a site full of fucking Sadists for fucks sake.
this isn't Cafemom.com ." As in, because it's a site full of sadists, then people should know sadists are going to be mean here. I am saying I disagree, and I explained why. I walk into a BDSM club knowing it's full of sadists. So what? Doesn't give them the right to impose their sadistic enjoyments on *me.* I wouldn't tolerate that there, nor would I here.

Please tell me where you see hysteria.

quote:

then people should know sadists are going to be mean here.


Are you saying the bolded part is hysteria?

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Profile   Post #: 950
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/9/2013 2:25:47 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

I believe a few years ago that was done by the management then, and it was met with similar uproar and cries of injustice. It appeared to me that several popular posters were hit with it, and their friends got upset about it.


That would be the drama segment, I assume.

quote:

I have apparently missed the plethora of disappearing topics and posts that are being discussed.


I've had the pleasure of returning to my PC, reloading four tabs, and having two redirect to the forum list (thread deleted) and one redirect to the sandbox for one of the VAs (thread undergoing editing). That, and having nine threads locked overnight during that Newtown consolidation (in truth far more, but I was only participating in nine of them).

Presumably, I waste more time here than you do.

quote:

I suppose the reason would be that I look at a discussion, and if jackasses are steering it to flames and off the actual subject, I just stop reading and usually do not contribute. Why should I post a rational and thoughtful post among a bunch of bashing each other, when time and experience has shown me it will just degenerate further away from the actual topic?


Doesn't this come down to putting the cost with the person imposing one on others?

Also, a bit of difference between a poster deciding "this thing has too low SNR for me" and a mod deciding "nobody gets to participate here".

quote:

I would also do some kind of three strike rule or something, as I have been reading along the lines of "if this gets pulled it was worth it to tell them off".


I agree, but favor the day/week/month/year/perm scale with some leeway for the difference between "oops" and "I don't give a shit".

I'm a forgiving sort.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 951
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/9/2013 2:26:32 PM   
VideoAdminChi


Posts: 3086
Joined: 8/6/2012
Status: offline
quote:

Last week there was a thread I posted on - by AthenaSurrenders, I think - about setting someone up to fail. I wrote a pretty lengthy post in it. A couple of days later I came back to the boards and it was gone.


The Impossible Task by AthenaSurrenders was never pulled.

Keyword searches can be buggy but username searches seem to work consistently well. That's how I found the thread.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 952
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/9/2013 2:26:35 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


A bunch of hysteria? Really? Hysteria?

We must have very different definitions of hysteria.

I think you're missing our point. You said "As far as being 'mean' to people. It's a site full of fucking Sadists for fucks sake.
this isn't Cafemom.com ." As in, because it's a site full of sadists, then people should know sadists are going to be mean here. I am saying I disagree, and I explained why. I walk into a BDSM club knowing it's full of sadists. So what? Doesn't give them the right to impose their sadistic enjoyments on *me.* I wouldn't tolerate that there, nor would I here.

Please tell me where you see hysteria.

quote:

then people should know sadists are going to be mean here.


Are you saying the bolded part is hysteria?

I'm saying that (which I didn't say, you did) plus the rest which you just happened to leave out is.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 953
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/9/2013 2:27:08 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
No, it sounds like it'll generate a lot of shouting matches that engender contagious butthurt that will spill over into the rest of the boards.

Yeah, I'd considered the collateral damage angle too. But as a counter-balance, perhaps it'd serve as a place to collect all the folks who tend to this sort of drama so things would even out?

Also, it doesn't address the problems stated by Orion, the problems stated by me, or ... need I go on?
or mine. As much as I understand the impact of the way the mods use nukes to take out individual targets I don't see how allowing a playground atmosphere would encourage the sort of discussion I'd like to see more of. But for those who feel their voice is silenced by the mods for little shit I can see it working out.... far away from me.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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Profile   Post #: 954
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/9/2013 2:27:59 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VideoAdminChi


Keyword searches can be buggy but username searches seem to work consistently well.

THIS^^^^^^^^^^^

Most of the time, I cant even find my own stuff using a keyword.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to VideoAdminChi)
Profile   Post #: 955
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/9/2013 2:30:28 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Another option is to make an In Moderation forum. One where new threads could NOT be started but a place where an existing thread where a complaint has been made would be sent to until a moderator can properly check it out. BUT in this In Moderation forum posts would still be allowed and discussion could continue. There would just be a warning in the forum wording that the thread could contain inappropriate posts and was in moderation.

As soon as the thread is weeded of said inappropriate posts it could then be reinstated in the proper forum. This would give moderators time to make the right decisions and still keep the good posts alive.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 1/9/2013 2:38:35 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 956
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/9/2013 2:32:05 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Yes...because the standard board would still have the same as now TOS regulation but would address your problem and Orions exactly. It would allow continued discussion until it is moderated appropriately. You do not have to participate in the forum if you like but i would like a thread to remain open while being moderated.


Perhaps you're right.

quote:

As far as butthurt carrying over... don't go there then...you are a grown man capable of your own decisions.


What I'm not capable of, is deciding for you.

Let's say you and NV really get into it, and one of you carries a grudge against the other, all this on the unmod section. Then you both participate in a thread on this side, and the grudge between you spill over here. Then my enjoyment of that thread will be impaired by your history with a part of the boards I don't bother visiting. For examples of this, have a look at nick with tazzy recently, rose with me right after her ignore, or the fab four debacle and aftermath, which was this, writ large.

I don't drive drunk. I don't care if X does, either. But I do care if X does so on the same road as me.

See my point?

IWYW,
— Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 957
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/9/2013 2:33:45 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


Perhaps. And I'm not totally discounting the idea. I've just seen unmoderated groups eventually die because everyone got tired of the over-the-top bickering, eventually.

FET has been around for 5 years as of last week and claims 1.7 million members. I have yet to see a Nigerian scammer or slave seller there and damn few of the 18 yo pay piggie seekers or spammers.
That is an average GAIN of approximately 1000 members/day for 5 years
It's about as close to non moderated as you can find. As long as you don't promote illegal activities, each 'room owner' sets the rules and you're good to go.

I checked the other day on CM and around 160 people (m, f, tg and couples) had joined in the previous 24 hours. Of those, there were significant numbers of Nigerian scammers, 'slave sellers', 18 yo pay piggy seekers, camsite hucksters and other assorted miscreants.
Is that enough to make up for those who leave or are booted every day?
does CM has a net gain or loss? If it's growing, it's not quickly.

Is it dying?

Does anyone remember alt.com? 10 years ago, that place rocked. Just for the hell of it, I ran a check a few months ago for female subs of any age that had been active within the last 2 weeks within 50 miles. There were 12.

It died. This place is not "Too big to fail" but if language is restricted to the point of nursery school, it might.

I was referring to "room owners" choosing to not moderate their groups. The ones I was a part of ended up fizzling.

I was referring to the entire site. As we have a situation where all the forums are basically one room with a few room owners controlling everything, there's no place to go for someone who dislikes what is happening................except all the way out.
A good example is chat on the other side. the failure of one room does very little to affect the fitness of "Chat" as anyone from a failed room will just drift to the one next door.
On this side, if someone can't deal with it, they can't just go the the 'room next door'. they have to leave the site. I hope that clears it up a bit.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 1/9/2013 2:34:07 PM >

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 958
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/9/2013 2:34:10 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I don't drive drunk. I don't care if X does, either. But I do care if X does so on the same road as me.

See my point?


Awad what do you think of the suggestion above? Post 956 I believe
Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 1/9/2013 2:35:39 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 959
RE: The decline of collarme - 1/9/2013 2:37:32 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


A bunch of hysteria? Really? Hysteria?

We must have very different definitions of hysteria.
As in, because it's a site full of sadists, then people should know sadists are going to be mean here.
Please tell me where you see hysteria.

Right there.

"then people should know sadists are going to be mean here."

I did not say that did I? You said that.

I said "It's a site full of Sadists"

And I interpreted what that was supposed to mean/intend, since you did not clarify. I didn't say you said it, I said "as in...." meaning that's what I understood you to mean. You could have corrected that interpretation, but instead you referred to my words as "hysteria". So what exactly did you mean by "As far as being mean to people. It's a site full of Sadits for fucks sake."?? [Post #910] You're the one who referenced being mean - I followed up on it.

quote:


You are the one who came up with nonconsensual kink.

No I didn't. Des did.

quote:


You are the one who said they are going to be mean here.

No I didn't. I responded to your reference of people being mean.

quote:


You are the one who turned "ignorant" into "ignorant piece of shit" in a different post.

No I didn't. I was giving an example of the extreme opposite of calling someone ignorant.

quote:


You are the one who equated mean words in a chatsite to "But using this logic means I could walk into a BDSM club and start smacking people around, saying "Well I'm a sadist - it's a club full of fucking sadists for fucks sake."

I was not chastizing. I was trying to come up with an analogy.

quote:


It that isn't hysteria....................


If there's any hysteria here (and I don't think there is), it's not coming from me.


_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 960
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