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Comfort - 12/29/2012 3:43:31 AM

OhRose

Posts: 28
Joined: 5/15/2012
From: Canada - Living in England
Status: offline

So today I met somebody who turned out to be real - much to my surprise admittedly - We swiftly moved overt to Skype and began to talk via the mic and we had a good time. She then began pushing me to buy a webcam so that I could expose myself to her. I voiced my discomfort at the idea, and made it clear to her that if such a thing were to happen, first I would have to develop a relationship to the point where I was comfortable doing so.

In her view, by getting on webcam our relationship would instantly develop to the point where I would be comfortable doing this. We argued the point for an hour or two, and the main gist of it seemed to be that we were meeting in what she described as "the middle". Now, I'm a complete newbie to BDSM, to doing anything remotely sexual with another over the internet. And she is not.

My question in a nutshell is. Is my comfort more important than her wishes? Are her wishes reasonable and am I just overreacting over nothing?

As a sidenote, following this argument we broke all contact.

Post #: 1

RE: Comfort - 12/29/2012 3:54:12 AM

Aedonix

Posts: 82
Joined: 8/26/2011
From: the UK
Status: offline

Short answer. YES your comfort levels are more important.

Not so short answer. it is perfectly reasonable to expect a couple of weeks of "Getting to know you" before camming, be it naked or just face even comes into it. after all. for all either one of you know. the other could be an axe murderer at worst, a fantasist, or just after kicks.. that time of just talking would relieve a good chunk of those concerns for both of you.

if something feels uncomfortable then you have every right to say "That feels uncomfortable right now" and expect those words to be heard and accepted without question (It becomes slightly different once submission happens and collars are involved, but you aren't at that stage yet so we'll ignore that)

The friendship/relationship has to come first before the sexual stuff.

_____________________________

if you would learn how to live, do not ask the question; its answer is not in the question but in the answer, which is not in words; do not ask how to live, but, instead, proceed to do so.

(in reply to OhRose)

Post #: 2

RE: Comfort - 12/29/2012 4:14:43 AM

AthenaSurrenders

Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline

If someone doesn't care about your comfort now, in the early stages when she's trying to impress you, do you think she'll take good care of you when you're tied up and helpless?

You are entitled to your own boundaries. Some people are happy to get on cam right away, others never do it. Right up until the point you agree to submit to a person (which IMO shouldn't be until you've met in person and got to know each other well) you don't owe it to them to obey. Equally she's entitled to her own standards, which might be immediate cam shows. You can both walk away if the other person doesn't meet your needs.

You have to look after yourself, because no one else will do it for you. If she's a keeper, she'll wait until you feel ready. Personally I'd weigh up - what will I lose by not doing this? What will I gain? What are the possible repercussions (ie, could she lose interest having got the free show she wanted, could she save a copy of the cam show and put it up on x tube?)? How will I feel about myself and her afterwards?

As a rule of thumb - if you met her in a bar/library/gym and she wanted you to get naked for her right away, would you be ok with that? If this was a potential girlfriend, not a domme, how would you feel about it? Your answer should be the same either way. D/s relationships are still relationships.

For the record, I'm not against camming, but if you don't want to do it, don't. It took a hell of a long time before I agreed to submit to my husband and even longer before he knew he could push things that made me uncomfortable without damaging our relationship.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to OhRose)

Post #: 3

RE: Comfort - 12/29/2012 4:21:24 AM

Aedonix

Posts: 82
Joined: 8/26/2011
From: the UK
Status: offline

May I add that camming isn't a bad thing. Text based conversation lacks in so many ways, and being able to talk "face to face" (as opposed to pussy to face or tits to face, just the same sort of skype cam convo you would have with your granny) can be a very usefull tool not only for verification that you are indeed who you both claim to be, and also it puts back some of the body language clues that are lacking from text (as well as voice tone and a number of other things) but even saying that.. that is only something you should do when you feel ready for it.

you owe no-one anything righ from the off and trust levels have to be established before you should even consider leaving your comfort zone.

in my opinion. any dominant, male or female will realize this and allow you that space you need to feel comfortable... if it means having to wait, they will wait. so long as everything else you are doing is genuine. a good person will pick that up.

_____________________________

if you would learn how to live, do not ask the question; its answer is not in the question but in the answer, which is not in words; do not ask how to live, but, instead, proceed to do so.

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 4

RE: Comfort - 12/29/2012 5:13:03 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OhRose

My question in a nutshell is. Is my comfort more important than her wishes? Are her wishes reasonable and am I just overreacting over nothing?

As a sidenote, following this argument we broke all contact.

No blanket one-size-fits-all answer to this one. After all, my role as Dom is to sometimes push a sub past her comfort zone. That said, it was done too early in the "relationship" for you.

The idea of having you cam nekkid right out the chute before a relationship was in place... I just thought I'd mention that there is software out there that can alter a man's voice to sound female.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to OhRose)

Post #: 5

RE: Comfort - 12/29/2012 5:58:46 AM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline

Steven, they just met a day ago, they are not in any kind of dynamic.

In the getting to know stage, both parties, but most especially the dominant, should be doing everything they can to build trust and confidence. Pushing someone to do anything does not do that.

This is a red flag to me. As Athena said: If someone doesn't care about your comfort now, in the early stages when she's trying to impress you, do you think she'll take good care of you when you're tied up and helpless?

You are entitled to your own boundaries.

Tell this person in no uncertain terms to back off unless and until you feel comfortable, then WATCH their actions. Not their words, their actions. It may well be enough to let you know if you should continue.

_____________________________

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 6

RE: Comfort - 12/29/2012 6:12:48 AM

lizi

Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline

I'd say especially in the beginning of things that both people should approach things in the best manner for themselves. For myself, I find if I give up control to someone else too early, then I make mistakes as sometimes that person was not the right one for me to do that with. I would say that until two people know each other better, no one's wishes 'counts' more than another's.

Everyone has their limits, they are there for a reason. If the other person you are talking to can't respect your limits, or finds them a hindrance, then it doesn't really look like a match does it? It doesn't mean you should give up your limits, rather you should find someone who corresponds more closely with what you want. With time, you may find that your limits with someone will change, it's common.

Generally if I meet someone and he is too pushy from the start, then I find myself not interested in continuing things as it seems to me that if this person can't respect my boundaries now, it doesn't look good that he will respect them later. If this woman who was a stranger to you was hellbent on getting you to do something that you were uncomfortable with, I see all kinds of red flags going up. I don't think her wishes were reasonable, especially at this point in time.

Just as a caveat, there are way too many people out there that are mortified to have naked pictures of them floating around. Seems like a good idea that you didn't potentially join that group of people who wished they'd been more careful.

(in reply to OhRose)

Post #: 7

RE: Comfort - 12/29/2012 6:23:29 AM

lizi

Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

Steven, they just met a day ago, they are not in any kind of dynamic.

In the getting to know stage, both parties, but most especially the dominant, should be doing everything they can to build trust and confidence. Pushing someone to do anything does not do that.

This is a red flag to me. As Athena said: If someone doesn't care about your comfort now, in the early stages when she's trying to impress you, do you think she'll take good care of you when you're tied up and helpless?

You are entitled to your own boundaries.

Tell this person in no uncertain terms to back off unless and until you feel comfortable, then WATCH their actions. Not their words, their actions. It may well be enough to let you know if you should continue.

I'd say that pushing someone right off the bat always seems extremely fishy to me - like there is another agenda.

I'm a big proponent of people understanding that they are entitled to their boundaries and not only that, they are expected to enforce them if the other person ignores them. Many times it can be hard for a submissive to do that, they tend to sit back and let the other person take charge, that's how it's kind of supposed to be after all.

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)

Post #: 8

RE: Comfort - 12/29/2012 8:25:02 AM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

As others have said, there are people who find nothing wrong with taking on their "roles" right from the beginning, s-types following orders given by d-types. That said, I believe that trusting that much that early is nearly always a mistake.

You and this woman were definately in the "getting to know each other" phase. While you are getting to know someone, you aren't their sub, you are just two people talking. You don't have a cam and no one you aren't in a relationship with should demand you get one so you can expose yourself to them. The concept that it will instantly increase your comfort with them is ludicrous.

You stuck to your values and that is a good thing. Even if she had tried to insist you meet face to face after just a day of talking and you weren't ready, that is your right. Always remember until you enter a relationship with someone, you have the right to do what you want and it should be respected.

(in reply to OhRose)

Post #: 9

RE: Comfort - 12/29/2012 8:40:25 AM

Spiritedsub2

Posts: 3316
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

No blanket one-size-fits-all answer to this one. After all, my role as Dom is to sometimes push a sub past her comfort zone. That said, it was done too early in the "relationship" for you. <snip>

I agree with this. A man I met on CM who lives 2,000 miles away had me cam for him very early on, the second time we "met". I really felt uncomfortable and didn't want to do it, but I did. He pushed my boundaries like crazy and I am so glad I did it. As a newbie letting somebody push my boundaries was fantastic; I had solid reasons to trust him which I think was key.

_____________________________

Don’t grieve. Anything you lose comes round in another form.
~ Rumi

Laughing Dolphin

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 10

RE: Comfort - 12/29/2012 9:27:18 AM

SinFix

Posts: 866
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline

As others have said there is no one size fits all for any of this... establish bounderies and stick to your guns if you don't feel comfortable with what is being asked...

(in reply to Spiritedsub2)

Post #: 11

RE: Comfort - 12/29/2012 9:28:15 AM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OhRose
So today I met somebody who turned out to be real - much to my surprise admittedly

Real what? Lord only knows from the rest of your story I could go with "real stupid" and a lot of other things but I'd struggle with "real dominant". You did right. You owed her nothing. She was, if nothing else "stupid" and I have a lot of questions about the word "dominant". You are better to be rid of her -- by far. You should look at this as a rare instance of a new sub actually listening to her own instincts and getting saved by them.

Lafayette Lady: "As others have said, there are people who find nothing wrong with taking on their "roles" right from the beginning, s-types following orders given by d-types."
As indicated by your air quotes around the word "role" some of us would not have any choice in that. My concern isn't the "right away" part is the "right stupid" part. In point of fact I'd say the d in this story DID play her "role" right away. The role was that of an insensitive, oversexed asshat with pretensions of dominance.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to OhRose)

Post #: 12

RE: Comfort - 12/29/2012 9:51:09 AM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OhRose
We argued the point for an hour or two

I agree with everyone else that says, your comfort level is important. A submissive literally puts their life into the hands of the Dominant. You need to be able to trust that person with your life. That takes time.

But this line stuck out to me. Why would you argue with someone that long. If they're not willing to wait until you're comfortable, why bother arguing. Just move on.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to OhRose)

Post #: 13

RE: Comfort - 12/29/2012 9:56:20 AM

theman76

Posts: 1
Joined: 11/15/2012
Status: offline

your comfort level at that stage is very important. I can see where she was coming from but she could have changed the request to something you felt better about. It still would have begun to set the relationship up. I agree with OsideGirl you must have thought she was very special to spend that kind of time going back and forth

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 14

RE: Comfort - 12/29/2012 10:50:56 AM

seekingreality

Posts: 599
Joined: 8/11/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OhRose

So today I met somebody who turned out to be real - much to my surprise admittedly - We swiftly moved overt to Skype and began to talk via the mic and we had a good time. She then began pushing me to buy a webcam so that I could expose myself to her. I voiced my discomfort at the idea, and made it clear to her that if such a thing were to happen, first I would have to develop a relationship to the point where I was comfortable doing so.

In her view, by getting on webcam our relationship would instantly develop to the point where I would be comfortable doing this. We argued the point for an hour or two, and the main gist of it seemed to be that we were meeting in what she described as "the middle". Now, I'm a complete newbie to BDSM, to doing anything remotely sexual with another over the internet. And she is not.

My question in a nutshell is. Is my comfort more important than her wishes? Are her wishes reasonable and am I just overreacting over nothing?

As a sidenote, following this argument we broke all contact.

You were smart to give this person the boot. She's a stranger. Just because you've talked on the phone a little bit doesn't mean you should be ready to strip naked for her on a webcam. Heck, for all you know she could record it and do who knows what with the recording. (Personally, I would never get naked on a webcam.)

And if one of your first conversations is an hour argument where you are being pressured to do something you don't want to do, it's only going to get worse.

(in reply to OhRose)

Post #: 15

RE: Comfort - 12/29/2012 1:07:37 PM

OhRose

Posts: 28
Joined: 5/15/2012
From: Canada - Living in England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: OhRose
We argued the point for an hour or two

I agree with everyone else that says, your comfort level is important. A submissive literally puts their life into the hands of the Dominant. You need to be able to trust that person with your life. That takes time.

But this line stuck out to me. Why would you argue with someone that long. If they're not willing to wait until you're comfortable, why bother arguing. Just move on.

I had a bit of hope that she was maybe just caught up in her role as the "Dominant", so at first I hoped to sway her. Then it just became an annoyed argument and I continued it longer than I should.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 16

RE: Comfort - 12/29/2012 1:21:57 PM

AthenaSurrenders

Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OhRose

I had a bit of hope that she was maybe just caught up in her role as the "Dominant", so at first I hoped to sway her. Then it just became an annoyed argument and I continued it longer than I should.

I can empathise with that, I know I've been drawn into one or two arguments online that I should have walked away from. For the same reason trolls on the boards get a lot of heated replies even though logically we all know they'll only stop misbehaving if we stop responding to it.

But damnit, it's so frustrating when people are wrong on the internet! I just need to make my point!

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to OhRose)

Post #: 17

RE: Comfort - 12/29/2012 1:28:07 PM

OhRose

Posts: 28
Joined: 5/15/2012
From: Canada - Living in England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

quote:

ORIGINAL: OhRose

I had a bit of hope that she was maybe just caught up in her role as the "Dominant", so at first I hoped to sway her. Then it just became an annoyed argument and I continued it longer than I should.

I can empathise with that, I know I've been drawn into one or two arguments online that I should have walked away from. For the same reason trolls on the boards get a lot of heated replies even though logically we all know they'll only stop misbehaving if we stop responding to it.

But damnit, it's so frustrating when people are wrong on the internet! I just need to make my point!

I know right!? Everybody is wrong but -me-. I just need to take the time to prove it!

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 18

RE: Comfort - 12/29/2012 1:33:37 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: theman76

your comfort level at that stage is very important. I can see where she was coming from but she could have changed the request to something you felt better about. It still would have begun to set the relationship up. I agree with OsideGirl you must have thought she was very special to spend that kind of time going back and forth

Where she was coming from was the mindset of someone horny whose main interest in D/s is the sexual aspects of it. Only someone living in fantasy land believes that in the first voice conversation they can "order" someone to spend money on a webcam so the horny asshat can see them naked. It's absolutely ridiculous.

I'm not of the belief that people need to "set the relationship up" from the start. Getting to know each other can't logically come with those types of boundaries. Of course, I also don't believe that the role of a dominant is to "push" a sub beyond their comfort zone. While that works and is what some people want, it isn't what all want, need or believe in.

(in reply to theman76)

Post #: 19

RE: Comfort - 12/29/2012 1:53:31 PM

SeekingTrinity

Posts: 1834
Joined: 5/29/2012
From: The 'burbs of Portland, OR
Status: offline

~FRing it~

Stick to the principles you have laid out for yourself. There is a huge difference between stretching your boundaries and crossing a line. Her request made you uncomfortable for a reason. Kinda reeked of something not good, if you want my honest opinion. Especially with the insistence after you expressed your discomfort at the whole idea of it. It wouldnt be the first time Ive heard of people's private webcam videos being recorded and posted by someone else on the internet for nefarious reasons. Good call listening to your gut instinct.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 20

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