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RE: New Years Resolution: Divorce the vanilla wife, or ... - 1/2/2013 3:51:46 AM

Pyramus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AllisonWilder
prolonging the inevitable is just doing everyone more harm than good.

Actually, there's no 'harm' other than I'm lonely and without kink.
She's fine. The kids are fine.
If it wasn't for me wanting more, there would actually be no problems whatsoever for her.

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RE: New Years Resolution: Divorce the vanilla wife, or ... - 1/2/2013 3:53:11 AM

thursdays

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Open relationship? She already knows what you want? Have you told her it's obviously a need to you? If she refuses an open relationship then imo, divorce her and let her get on with her life. Why torment the poor lady any further?

This

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RE: New Years Resolution: Divorce the vanilla wife, or ... - 1/2/2013 4:16:16 AM

kiwisub12

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Regarding the Catholic thing - I would suggest you call the local parish office, and ask to talk to someone about annulment of your marraige. It sounds to me that you have a case, since she went into the marraige without a committment to fufil her marriage vows. Once that is out of the way, then you are free to do what you will.

And she can get her butt out and get a job and support herself.

There is no reason for you to be lonely with people. Its actually easier to be lonely alone, since that is more "natural".

Not having anyone touch you is horrible. NO-one deserves that.

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RE: New Years Resolution: Divorce the vanilla wife, or ... - 1/2/2013 7:11:18 AM

Toysinbabeland

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pyramus

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
Open relationship? She already knows what you want? Have you told her it's obviously a need to you? If she refuses an open relationship then imo, divorce her and let her get on with her life. Why torment the poor lady any further?

Hi little wonder,
She's the one who suggested the open relationship, actually on a new year's day, a few years past. We haven't slept in the same bed for years. Not my doing. Was that way for her first marriage also. I thought I could change it - but - there are some things beyond you. Aspergers is one of them (but bear in mind that 'label' has been deprecated as of recent DSM-5 guidelines).

To answer your questions bluntly:
Q: Open relationship?
A: She has no desire for relationships. None whatsoever. But she understands my need for them.

Q: She already knows what you want?
A: Kinky sex. And someone warm and cuddly. Neither of which will ever be she. She never masturbates. No sex toys. No erotic fantasies whatsoever. Says so herself - and - after many years - I believe it. I used to think she hid it somehow - but - nope - it's just not there. Not her fault mind you. The brain is wired as the brain is wired. Not my fault either. It is what it is.

Q: Have you told her it's obviously a need to you?
A: Ummm.. like ten thousand times. Even her friends have pleaded with her to "just do it". She tried, for a few years, sporadically. It was a flop though because you can't make a straight man gay, you can't make a bi woman a tv, and you can't make someone wired for no sexual feelings want it. Freud called it frigidity - but that is a deprecated term which I only bring up so that the magnitude of the issue is apparent.

Q: If she refuses an open relationship then imo, divorce her and let her get on with her life.
A: Ah. Therein lies the rub. Is a marriage ONLY about sex? What about the Catholic vows? What about the kids? Who takes care of her then?

Q: Why torment the poor lady any further?
A: This one I just don't understand. Pray tell ... How am "I" tormenting her? She's perfectly happy to have someone else (were there one at this time) take care of my needs. Never fazed her. Not one bit. We've discussed this as her friends made her bring up the issue to me. She even tried "learning" about sex from books. The good news from that was that she now doesn't think I'm the oddest thing on the planet that I need it nightly - but it didn't change her own feelings about it one bit.

Does the wife want a divorce?
Do you see a value in it?
What would you want in terms of a future with another?
Do you ” need” a divorce, or can you coexist peacefully?
Could you keep a submissive on premises for use, if that is what you wanted?
There is the rub, what does the divorce do to change your needs/situation?

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RE: New Years Resolution: Divorce the vanilla wife, or ... - 1/2/2013 7:45:44 AM

theshytype

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It seems to me when couples stay together for the kids, they have the right intentions but that type of relationship would have a negative effect and paint a false picture of a normal relationship.
You're not the first couple to do it and won't be the last.

I've often joked, saying a perfect marriage would include separate homes. However, once that step is taken what's the point of remaining married? Just to say you're married? You can still take care of her and your kids after divorce.

As far as breaking vows, sounds like they've already been broken. I believe in the sanctity of marriage, but sometimes it's just not sustainable. If both parties have put forth an effort to resolve their issues, but cannot be resolved, then divorce is probably the way to go.

I wouldn't say I converted my husband, but brought out something that was already there. He just didn't know it. Of course, it's probably a lot easier for a woman to get a man to be more kinky and dominant than vice versa. I can understand your dilemma and understand how difficult this may be for you. Good luck to you, whatever you decide.

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RE: New Years Resolution: Divorce the vanilla wife, or ... - 1/2/2013 8:17:49 AM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dollenburg

Whatever works in a marriage is fair game. Open. Closed. Or sideways. Do whatever you need to do to keep it together. Whatever that happens to be.

The grass is NOT greener on the other side of the fence.

Oh yes it can be. 4 years after my divorce, I'm the happiest I've ever been in my life.

I think it's sad when people do all that is possible to keep a relationship together, and are still unhappy, lonely and unfulfilled. Not to say divorce is easy - hardest thing I've ever done - but at some point it really can become the better option.

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RE: New Years Resolution: Divorce the vanilla wife, or ... - 1/2/2013 9:44:43 AM

Missokyst

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You are not sexually compatible. And it looks like you are also not intimately (hugging kissing affection) compatible. So your choice is what you have now, which does not make her happy, or leaving which may make you happy. It appears you have stuff. I don't think staying for the sake of the kids is great for the kids. My parents were not compatible. As a kid I learned how to not attach to my mate. I am pretty sure I learned how to be alone from them even though they were together. I married once, divorced after 7 yrs, and stayed single thereafter. I choose to be alone rather than live the way they did. Do you know you are teaching that to your children?

You appear to have some money. Why not sell what you have, downsize a bit and buy a duplex? The family stays together, but is not forced into some pretense of a relationship you learned to fit yourselves into. It sounds like you might make nice neighbors.

< Message edited by Missokyst -- 1/2/2013 9:45:40 AM >

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RE: New Years Resolution: Divorce the vanilla wife, or ... - 1/2/2013 9:58:59 AM

phxgydnar

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Divorce opens up the possibilities to happiness!

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RE: New Years Resolution: Divorce the vanilla wife, or ... - 1/2/2013 10:27:36 AM

LadyPact

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I'll be honest with you. I'd have a harder time with no affection than I would no sex and I'd have a harder time with no sex than I would no kink. Yeah, I know. Easy for the poly chick to say, right? Well, we weren't always poly and due to My other half's career, we have had long periods of no sex when we were on different continents. I do understand that is different than when the person that you love is under the same roof and it's not happening.

I think a person has to assess the situation (the whole thing, not just the sex) and decide where their priorities lie. If My other half could no longer have sex due to a medical condition of some kind, I certainly wouldn't leave him over it. I care more about him as a person than I do about sex. The rest of the relationship just outweighs sex on the priority scale for Me.

You mentioned being Catholic. Is she Catholic, too? If so, could it have to do with her upbringing?

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RE: New Years Resolution: Divorce the vanilla wife, or ... - 1/2/2013 10:52:25 AM

Pyramus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Toysinbabeland
Does the wife want a divorce?

We discussed it many times. We concluded we lose more than we gain, since there is only one thing missing and she's not missing anything.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Toysinbabeland
Do you see a value in it?

All I need is companionship. So, ironically, I see companionship (and sex and kink, in that order) in divorce - yet - I see bondage in divorce. Eternal bondage. Eternal bondage both ways, in fact, divorced or not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Toysinbabeland
What would you want in terms of a future with another?

Freedom. Pure unadulterated freedom to live out my fantasy with just one other of similar ilk.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Toysinbabeland
Do you ” need” a divorce, or can you coexist peacefully?

"We are already divorced" I tell my friends. Not in fact - but in reality. There hasn't been intimacy & sex in years (and kink is off the table). This sleeping apart started when the first kid was in the womb. At that time it was an excuse, I only know now - but there have been so very many excuses that I tried to fix that turned out to keep coming anew. A couple of years ago, I frustratingly gave up on trying to react to the excuses - and they just stopped. Everything stopped. The affairs were sheer bliss - but the ladies always wanted more. You can only be in one place on Christmas, only at one New Years Eve gala, you can't be at the opera and watching the kids act in the school play at the same time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Toysinbabeland
Could you keep a submissive on premises for use, if that is what you wanted?

Nope. Not with her around. Nor the kids. Nor the family & neighbors. No, it has to be separate. We even discussed this. She is of the desire not to know. Just as long as I stay away from her and take care of her and the kids, she's fine with whatever I do. She's actually understanding that way, so I don't wish to make her out to be an ogre. She's gorgeous, fit, intelligent, vibrant, educated, politically similar, frugal, caring, etc. ... our 'marriage' is really only missing one single trinity, namely companionship:sex:kink.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Toysinbabeland
what does the divorce do to change your needs/situation?

Therein lies the rub, I agree. I'm not sure what divorce does for me. Hence, the question, born out of lonliness on a lonely yet beautifully stellar new years eve.

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RE: New Years Resolution: Divorce the vanilla wife, or ... - 1/2/2013 10:56:46 AM

SailingBum

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Lemme get this straight... you are asking a bunch of complete strangers for marital advice??? Sure I'll bite flip a coin!

BadOne

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RE: New Years Resolution: Divorce the vanilla wife, or ... - 1/2/2013 11:01:12 AM

Pyramus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: theshytype
...when couples stay together for the kids, ...paint a false picture of a normal relationship.

The kids seem happy. I'd keep them out of this mostly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: theshytype
a perfect marriage would include separate homes.

Funny you say that as we've discussed that many times. We're in a downturn at the moment (as are we all), but, my personal favorite fantasy is to buy the property of my dreams (I already have my eye on it), build a world famous sex club on the premises - and cater to the sexual fantasies that I enjoy so much, e.g., Friday it would be a swing club, all invited, Saturdays a swing club couples and females only, Sundays the hot tubs and heated pool would be for the naturists, Monday for the gay leather group, Tuesdays for the lady Lesbians, Wednesdays begins the kink week with a bondage-a-go-go nightlife atmosphere, Thursdays for the transgendered, etc.

Ah, that would be the life. Do what you love ... it will pay its own expenses, they say. I even worked out the math how the non-taxable "club" would charge "membership" (wink wink) dues (for costs only), so that it wouldn't be a drain on my resources (yes, I know, another IRS punishment fantasy of mine destined to be doomed to a fatal flaw).

quote:

ORIGINAL: theshytype
As far as breaking vows, sounds like they've already been broken.

Not that vow. The vow to protect and care for is still there.

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RE: New Years Resolution: Divorce the vanilla wife, or ... - 1/2/2013 11:11:05 AM

LaTigresse

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Lots of issues.

And yanno, you might even find what you are looking for.......IF you are being 100% honest. Knowing women, you might find some sweet thing to live in a home you provide, live off you, give you lots of hot sex, and make you think your dreams have come true.

BUT......chances are, at some point, she's either gonna ditch you for another, wealthier, sugar daddy, or she's going to decide she wants more than you have to offer.

The whole thing makes me think of that sad little man Hugh Hefner. Always has ass around, even marries a few. But they are not with him because he's just a super guy. They use him and then lose him.

If that's the kind of woman you want, you will probably find her. I wish you luck after she's found.

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RE: New Years Resolution: Divorce the vanilla wife, or ... - 1/2/2013 11:29:36 AM

SeekingTrinity

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~FRing it~

I think you are in an incredibly difficult situation. It doesnt sound like you are wanting a divorce because of the factors you spoke about. Im just not sure what you feel is holding you back from finding companionship and kink since you have a marriage that is open and is only a marriage in name. You have your green light without having to go through a divorce, so what's holding you back from finding your way to not be lonely and kink-less?

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RE: New Years Resolution: Divorce the vanilla wife, or ... - 1/2/2013 12:07:24 PM

Pyramus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity
so what's holding you back from finding your way to not be lonely and kink-less?

Two things.

I'll explain it by delving back to the seventies and eighties, when we were kids just getting to know the opposite sex (because that's how I feel today, even at this late stage in my adult developmental cycle).

What does a high school guy need to take a girl out on a memorable date?

Well, in reality, nothing but a kind heart and a warm hand - but - in practicality, you need to have a car and a place to neck and your parents and hers have to give you some slack. Of course, in high school, we found all sorts of places to neck, such as under the bleachers or behind a tree ... and we often bummed a ride with friends (I didn't have a car until after college, with only a two-stroke motorcycle for transportation for years) ... and to get around the parents' radar, when it was possible, such as during the summer months, she told her parents she was staying with her girlfriends while I supposedly slept over my guy friend's house. On Christmas or Easter, she went with her family to her relatives, and I to mine. we were in it for the fun and enjoyment of each other, mentally and physically. She, in her puppy love, expected to marry me, and I, likewise (in my innocence), expected to marry her and live happily ever after together.

Fast forward a few decades of adulthood, and, well, I feel like that kid in high school all over again, only the marriage is the parents radar, and I don't think necking under the bleachers is still in vogue, and, well, despite the passage of time, and the addition of a house and car for resources, you can still only be in one place for Christmas, and she (the new she) rightfully needs more than that.

I hope that made sense.

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RE: New Years Resolution: Divorce the vanilla wife, or ... - 1/2/2013 12:18:00 PM

Pyramus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
F you are being 100% honest...you might find some sweet thing to live in a home you provide, live off you, give you lots of hot sex, and make you think your dreams have come true

Believe it or not, before the downturn, I had just that. She wasn't kinky - but she was getting divorced and wanted to separate as they were selling the home - and I put her up in a nice apartment - with the deal that she was mine whenever I wanted her. I even wrote up a 'contract', burned the edges to make it look nice, and put hours into the wording (based partly on slaves contracts on the web but with healthy editing). She never signed it - as she wasn't kinky - but she was great in bed - the best I ever had - and I absolutely unequivocally loved the fact that I had 'ownership' of her - without asking so to speak - just bringing over a bottle of red wine and some music for her iPod, and we enjoyed many a sensual night. For her, it was just business - but for me, it was sheer bliss (as I was able to suspend disbelief).

In the end however, she needed more and within a few months, found a guy (whom she later married). We were still doing it, but less sporadically when she met him - and finally she moved in with him and that was it. No hard feelings. But that was it for my lovely little escapade.

The warmth. The deliciousness of femininity. The soft caresses. The kissing (oh, the kissing), and the attention (my first real bj, with all the trimmings!). The only bad part of the sex was she thought I was being mean when i twisted her nipples - so I had to wholly suppress that half of me. I tried spanking her, but again, to no avail. But the rimming swallowing blowjobs were the fruit of many of my dreams. In all my years, I didn't know a single woman who could take care of a man so well.

Alas, 'twas not to be savored for long. And it was entirely devoid of perversion.

To your point, if I could find someone of similar ilk but with the added benefit of submissive kink, that would work. I keep reading myredbook, for example, and wondering if those women, who hoards of men must be keeping in business every day, would fit the bill. Yet, something deters me, I know not what.

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RE: New Years Resolution: Divorce the vanilla wife, or ... - 1/2/2013 12:21:07 PM

LaTigresse

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Well buddy, all of the waxing poetic on here isn't going to do a god damned thing for you.

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RE: New Years Resolution: Divorce the vanilla wife, or ... - 1/2/2013 12:31:42 PM

Pyramus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity
You have your green light without having to go through a divorce, so what's holding you back from finding your way to not be lonely and kink-less?

In addition to the pleasurable sugar-daddy escapade outlined above, I did have a great year-long affair with a lovely lady met on Craigslist, who was in a similar situation as I, married with kids (only she was vanilla also). Her appeal, perhaps due to her eclectic genetics, was that she had to have the most fantastic body I've ever seen on a woman, bar none. Her home situation however, as I later found out, was abusive, so, things changed for her while they remained the same for me. While we were together during her separation and ultimately her divorce, things were fantastic! Absolutely fantastic. To this day, I remember my first caress of her thigh, as I pushed her against the wall and kissed her deeply for the first time (she adroitly moved my hand off her - as I had to follow the dating ritual - but - we being adults - the formality of tagging the bases is blissfully short for we adults, taking only mere weeks in duration to round the home plate).

However, romantic success brings further obstacles to progression: She wanted a seat right up behind the home plate she just gave me.

That's when I learned you can only be at one place for Christmas! I tried juggling schedules, but, really, it's a LOT of work. Sure, half the time it works out fine, but the other half the time, you're driving back home at 5am wondering why you're living two wholly separate lives. It's times like that where you realize that the huge business of women selling their bodies is actually a very practical matter when you compare time and money and energy spent on the pursuit of companionship.

Eventually, she got married also. Just not to me.

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RE: New Years Resolution: Divorce the vanilla wife, or ... - 1/2/2013 12:32:11 PM

AllisonWilder

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A marriage without companionship is no marriage at all.

If she can't give you love and affection, there's no reason that a person should have to endure that. I'm not talking about sex, although I believe it's important to a relationship, it's not the most important thing.

It sounds to me like you are looking for every reason to stay, so just stay. Or tell her that you're tired of not getting companionship, affection and midnight cuddles and if she can't offer it, then you'll have to file for a divorce because you're tired of going outside of the marriage for any affection whatsoever.

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RE: New Years Resolution: Divorce the vanilla wife, or ... - 1/2/2013 12:35:36 PM

seekingreality

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pyramus

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
Open relationship? She already knows what you want? Have you told her it's obviously a need to you? If she refuses an open relationship then imo, divorce her and let her get on with her life. Why torment the poor lady any further?

Hi little wonder,
She's the one who suggested the open relationship, actually on a new year's day, a few years past. We haven't slept in the same bed for years. Not my doing. Was that way for her first marriage also. I thought I could change it - but - there are some things beyond you. Aspergers is one of them (but bear in mind that 'label' has been deprecated as of recent DSM-5 guidelines).

To answer your questions bluntly:
Q: Open relationship?
A: She has no desire for relationships. None whatsoever. But she understands my need for them.

Q: She already knows what you want?
A: Kinky sex. And someone warm and cuddly. Neither of which will ever be she. She never masturbates. No sex toys. No erotic fantasies whatsoever. Says so herself - and - after many years - I believe it. I used to think she hid it somehow - but - nope - it's just not there. Not her fault mind you. The brain is wired as the brain is wired. Not my fault either. It is what it is.

Q: Have you told her it's obviously a need to you?
A: Ummm.. like ten thousand times. Even her friends have pleaded with her to "just do it". She tried, for a few years, sporadically. It was a flop though because you can't make a straight man gay, you can't make a bi woman a tv, and you can't make someone wired for no sexual feelings want it. Freud called it frigidity - but that is a deprecated term which I only bring up so that the magnitude of the issue is apparent.

Q: If she refuses an open relationship then imo, divorce her and let her get on with her life.
A: Ah. Therein lies the rub. Is a marriage ONLY about sex? What about the Catholic vows? What about the kids? Who takes care of her then?

Q: Why torment the poor lady any further?
A: This one I just don't understand. Pray tell ... How am "I" tormenting her? She's perfectly happy to have someone else (were there one at this time) take care of my needs. Never fazed her. Not one bit. We've discussed this as her friends made her bring up the issue to me. She even tried "learning" about sex from books. The good news from that was that she now doesn't think I'm the oddest thing on the planet that I need it nightly - but it didn't change her own feelings about it one bit.

A lot of the issues you're bringing up -- Catholic vows, the kids -- are ones that people face in getting divorced for any reason.

My sense is the marriage issues were deeper than just an absense of kinky sex. But if that truly was the only reason, only you can decide if that is enough to be dissastifed with your life.

If so, you have to decide how important the Catholic vows for you are (wouldn't be an issue for me -- I am not a big fan of organized religion). As far as the kids, they'll do okay -- people are resilient and having divorced parents has become the norm).

And unless the marriage is a total train wreck, you're always going to have regrets, especially until you find another partner.

I certainly don't dismiss the emotionally difficulty of a breakup, but I don't think there is really related to BDSM, except maybe for you beating yourself up for thinking that's a frivolous reason to end a marriage. But, as I said, I suspect there were other issues.

Good luck.

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