RE: Male victimization in modern society. (Full Version)

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jlf1961 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/9/2013 6:19:08 AM)

Basic Instinct was okay, but sharon stone did not play a slasher per se. She had a very low body count.

I am talking about the psychotic slasher type killer that will watch two teenagers having sex and kills them just before they orgasm.




tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/9/2013 6:22:58 AM)

The Burning Bed - A horror movie for many men at that time - scarier because it wasnt fiction




jlf1961 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/9/2013 6:29:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The Burning Bed - A horror movie for many men at that time - scarier because it wasnt fiction


But she did not use a long sharp knife, and when she set the bed on fire, he wasnt having sex with anyone.

We have to stay within the parameters of the slasher film.




tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/9/2013 6:35:02 AM)

LOL..... I like reality based horror... much more believable.




PeonForHer -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/9/2013 7:06:53 AM)

quote:

Misery (Kathy Bates again )



Hell's bells. I've only to hear the phrase 'Mister Man' to get the shudders. There was something about that book/film that hit home in a very nasty way for me.




Exidor -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/9/2013 7:10:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

State and Federal Prisoners: There were 113,000 women offenders incarcerated in state and federal facilities in 2010 compared to 1,500,000 male inmates.
...
Just some facts.


First, the female has to be arrested in the first place. Then she actually has to be charged, brought to trial, and convicted. Based on years of experience with the police and court system, they're much more likely to be let slide at every step of the way.

Statistics are a useful tool, but only as good as their underlying data. Otherwise, GIGO.




tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/9/2013 7:18:04 AM)

quote:

The growth in the female incarcerated population was 2.2 percent since 2,000. The growth in the male incarcerated population was 1.6 percent since 2,000.


Seems they are now.




Moonhead -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/9/2013 8:58:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The Burning Bed - A horror movie for many men at that time - scarier because it wasnt fiction


But she did not use a long sharp knife, and when she set the bed on fire, he wasnt having sex with anyone.

We have to stay within the parameters of the slasher film.

Isn't that overly restrictive? There's plenty of slasher films where the killer doesn't stick to knives. Some of the inventiveness in the post Argento mangas that the Slashers are ripping off is a lot nastier than a mere knife.

Still, if you want to be a purist the first Friday The Thirteenth (where it's Jason's mother committing the murders rather than her undead son) surely ticks all of the right boxes?
(I'd also suggest that the use of a knife in Hard Candy had me flinching watching it...)
Are I Spit On Your Grave, Lady Vengeance, The Blloodsoaked Bride and Ms 45 disqualified because the heroines prefer to shoot people?




Aswad -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/9/2013 9:09:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Seems they are now.


An improvement, at least. If you're an attractive white woman, you're still a lot less likely to be convicted on the same evidence than an ugly black man, though, and a lot of this has to do with stereotypes. Note that I consider the two other bias factors to be equally serious here, of course.

Where I live, a man's life can be ruined by a mere accusation, whereas a woman must be convicted and will often be believed innocent after serving her sentence, and while the courts are getting better at being gender neutral, the police have a long way to go in that regard (indeed, they've been known to make public service announcements that directly contradict research consensus in women's favor). Heck, you don't need evidence to bring a man to trial, but you need overwhelming evidence to bring a woman to trial, illustrating that even the courts have some ways to go.

IWYW,
— Aswad.




tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/9/2013 9:12:41 AM)

Considering that the "powers that be" and who make the rules are just this side of the grave, its antiquated ideology that needs to go. Like most things political.




Chesterfield91 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/9/2013 9:19:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

It is the way most men are, ask them. It's the reason my brother got so much shit for defending himself, and a load of comments on how a man should never hit a girl. He said that it was an automatic reaction to being kneed in the balls, he didn'tthink about it, and he felt bad afterwards. His first words to me were actually "I've just done something really bad".

Did your brother hit his wife back or was the violence one-sided? Who hit first?


One sided.

quote:

I've been trying to find a video but it's been taken down I think, of an experiment where two actors, male and female, went to a park and abused eachother on a bench, to see how people would react.


Nick posted it on this thread.

quote:

Seriously, ask your male friends what they think.


What they think of what? That video? My friends, like me, would call the police and then start recording, wouldnt matter what sex the victim.

quote:

It's a yes. You could say that about the women too. Of course you're going to try your best to prove the results false. I also linked to hundreds of others that show DV rates to be about equal between the genders. Like I said, no reason for male victims to not receive the same support that women do. It should be taken more seriously.


I never said the results were false. I said invalid, based upon what I know about teenage boys. Most teen girls would amit to hitting a boy friend in front of their parents. Most teen boys will not.




Okay. If you and your friends would call the police no matter the sex of the victim then fair enough, but the attitudes of that cop and that woman in the video PeonForHer linked are the kinds of attitudes most people have. It's the assumption of the man always being guilty of something that pisses me off, and it's the result of this bullshit idea that men are always the violent abusers when really it's closer to 50/50, and the fact that a lot of people like to think of women as being morally superior to men.




tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/9/2013 9:44:38 AM)

quote:

Okay. If you and your friends would call the police no matter the sex of the victim then fair enough, but the attitudes of that cop and that woman in the video PeonForHer linked are the kinds of attitudes most people have. It's the assumption of the man always being guilty of something that pisses me off, and it's the result of this bullshit idea that men are always the violent abusers when really it's closer to 50/50, and the fact that a lot of people like to think of women as being morally superior to men.


Just out of curiosity, you do know when that video was made, yes?

Currently there are 23 states with Mandatory Arrest requirements. Each state has a slightly different law.

http://www.nij.gov/publications/dv-dual-arrest-222679/exhibits/table1.htm

Many of these laws were enacted during the late 90's. There were many states who did not enact such laws, leaving it up to the officer's discretion.

For example,, Alaska... implemented thier law in 1996.

A law enforcement officer is required to make an arrest with or without a warrant:

if the officer has probable cause to believe the person has, either in or outside the presence of the officer, within the previous 12 hours, (1) committed domestic violence, except an offense under AS 11.41.100-11.41.130, whether the crime is a felony or misdemeanor; (2) committed the crime of violating a protective order in violation of AS 11.56.740; (3) violated a condition of release imposed under AS 12.30.025, 12.30.027, 12.30.029….


The statute provides criteria for an officer to use when determining who is the “principal physical aggressor.” A “principal physical aggressor” evaluation must be made in domestic violence cases if there are cross complaints “arising from the same incident.” In rare circumstances, an officer may determine that no arrest should be made. An “authorization not to arrest” must first be granted by a prosecutor from “the jurisidiction in which the offense under investigation arose,” and the officer must later report in writing why an arrest was not made. A prosecuting attorney is on call and available by phone to law enforcement in all parts of the state to provide an officer with an authorization, if needed.

Under Alaska law, there is a 20-day minimum sentence if the defendant is in violation of a domestic violence protection order, a 30-day minimum sentence if the defendant has a prior conviction for assault or domestic violence assault, and a 60-day minimum sentence if the defendant “has been previously convicted two or more times of a crime against a person or a crime involving domestic violence, or a combination of those crimes.”


http://www.nij.gov/publications/dv-dual-arrest-222679/exhibits/table1.htm

In case you didnt know... or others dont know... the video was made in 2006.

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=2741047&page=1#.UO2nx-REHv4

NJ law states.... Probable cause to believe that domestic violence has occurred and either victim shows signs of injury or probable cause that a weapon was involved.

L.1991,L.1991,c.261,s.5; amended 2003, c.277, s.1.

http://www.njlaws.com/2c_25-21.html?id=2095&a=

Since the video was made in NJ, if the police had been called, there would have been an arrest.

The laws are in place. Just like with the Connecticut case I cited earlier, they have to be pushed.




Moonhead -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/9/2013 9:51:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Basic Instinct was okay, but sharon stone did not play a slasher per se. She had a very low body count.

I am talking about the psychotic slasher type killer that will watch two teenagers having sex and kills them just before they orgasm.

Adding to the first Friday The Thirteenth, there's The Bird With Crystal Plumage (that's a great big spoiler right there, which would have Alex Kingston bitch slap me and maybe shoot my hat if I was Doctor Who), My Bloody Valentine and Suspiria all spring to mind, for a start.




PeonForHer -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/9/2013 10:04:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chesterfield91

Okay. If you and your friends would call the police no matter the sex of the victim then fair enough, but the attitudes of that cop and that woman in the video PeonForHer linked are the kinds of attitudes most people have. It's the assumption of the man always being guilty of something that pisses me off, and it's the result of this bullshit idea that men are always the violent abusers when really it's closer to 50/50, and the fact that a lot of people like to think of women as being morally superior to men.


I get your points and have some sympathy. However, together, they only make up part of the story. Another part, brought up in the video but not commented on, was the disparity in the likelihoods of damage occurring to the man (as the abused party) versus the woman.

Can you imagine a similar video being made, but this time involving a small, frail man and much larger and stronger man? (Recalling that men are, on average, a third bigger than woman and their weight is made up of proportionately more muscle).




Moonhead -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/9/2013 1:32:50 PM)

Don't you get that sort of imbalance in a few gay couples? It's not inconceivable that a twink may end up getting the shit beat out of him during a break up, or just a bear partner turning nasty drunk on him...




Aylee -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/9/2013 3:01:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Don't you get that sort of imbalance in a few gay couples? It's not inconceivable that a twink may end up getting the shit beat out of him during a break up, or just a bear partner turning nasty drunk on him...


Around these parts, one or both of them still get arrested.  (I know a couple this happened to.)


And sometimes it is just an accident that a guy gets hit in the nuts. 




Hillwilliam -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/9/2013 3:20:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


Since the video was made in NJ, if the police had been called, there would have been an arrest.

The laws are in place. Just like with the Connecticut case I cited earlier, they have to be pushed.

You are assuming, of course, that the police always do what they are supposed to do.

I think we can both agree that isn't necessarily true.




PeonForHer -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/9/2013 3:41:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Don't you get that sort of imbalance in a few gay couples? It's not inconceivable that a twink may end up getting the shit beat out of him during a break up, or just a bear partner turning nasty drunk on him...


I was thinking along similar lines. I don't know, is the short answer.




tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/9/2013 3:49:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


Since the video was made in NJ, if the police had been called, there would have been an arrest.

The laws are in place. Just like with the Connecticut case I cited earlier, they have to be pushed.

You are assuming, of course, that the police always do what they are supposed to do.

I think we can both agree that isn't necessarily true.


It isnt necessarily true... however... it is enforceable.. especially for the victim.

Once again, we come back to people having to ask for help before anyone can help them. Sort of why I said they have to be pushed. Tracey Thurmond had a restraining order when her husband abused her so violently, in front of the police, that her neck snapped and she lost feelings on one side of her body, and motor control of the other side. The push was the lawsuit... which made many jurisdictions start to take notice.

Hit the wallet, and people start thinking.




Aylee -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/9/2013 3:59:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chesterfield91

Okay. If you and your friends would call the police no matter the sex of the victim then fair enough, but the attitudes of that cop and that woman in the video PeonForHer linked are the kinds of attitudes most people have. It's the assumption of the man always being guilty of something that pisses me off, and it's the result of this bullshit idea that men are always the violent abusers when really it's closer to 50/50, and the fact that a lot of people like to think of women as being morally superior to men.


I am five two and around 115 pounds.  Do you really think that I would feel safe enough to get in between two people fighting?  Oh hell no.  I too, would have walked on by. 

To be honest, I would think that all the rape prevention stuff that females are taught and told about is what would piss you off.  Not the idea that by and large men are bigger and stronger and can do far more damage than women. 




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