RE: Is it any wonder... (Full Version)

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Yachtie -> RE: Is it any wonder... (1/7/2013 6:39:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Earth to Yachtie........

[sm=abducted.gif]

Yachtie? Hello! It is hard to discuss this topic without mentioning WHY people need government assistance to begin with.

Also, unemployment/extending unemployment benefits/and how to help the unemployed has everything to do with this topic.

Yachtie, behave now!
[sm=domme.gif]



It's easy to discuss without going to the whys of people having the need. It's about the delivery mechanisms. Kinda like a broken ankle, Does it really matter how it got broken? No. It's about that it is and the fix.

Benefits are viable because they come in after the fact. Is talking about the benefits the same as the fact jobs are outsourced and even can cause added unemployment? No.

Now as to unemployment benefits, what is the time frame for receiving benefits, paid for by both employee and employer, and where does taxpayer extended benefits begin? The fact that the recipient is receiving the benefit needs be looked at as to source of the funding. I'm not totally against extending, but where that is taxpayer funded is done so by politicians and therefore liable to be vote influencing.







Marini -> RE: Is it any wonder... (1/7/2013 6:43:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

thb, many people need government assistance AFTER they have exhausted their unemployment, it's a natural order of progression for many people.


Yes it is and at that point they are put on welfare.


So that has a lot to do with the topic at hand.




Aedonix -> RE: Is it any wonder... (1/7/2013 7:37:44 PM)

And no politician up for election has EVER attempted to influence the vote of the working class either?

So.. by that logic you are stating that working people PAY for the right to be bought. But being unemployed means you cannot be influenced?

in that case is there not an argument for ONLY the unemployed being given the vote? they are beyond the influence of buying votes unlike bankers and doctors and lawyers and such

Sorry but this whole thing has more holes than a fishing net.




Marini -> RE: Is it any wonder... (1/7/2013 8:17:39 PM)

quote:

Ok then OP.. seeing how none of us mere plebs posses your obviously superior intellect...

WTF IS THE TOPIC THEN??


The topic is how people receiving government assistance should have to live, what they should be able to spend their money on, how they should be treated and what they have to do to receive government assistance.

FROM THE ARTICLE:

PUT ME IN CHARGE . . .
Put me in charge of food stamps. I’d get rid of Lone Star cards; no cash for Ding Dongs or Ho Ho’s, just money for 50-pound bags of rice and beans, blocks of cheese and all the powdered milk you can haul away. If you want steak and frozen pizza, then get a job.

Put me in charge of Medicaid. The first thing I’d do is to get women Norplant birth control implants or tubal ligations. Then, we’ll test recipients for drugs, alcohol, and nicotine. If you want to reproduce or use drugs, alcohol, or smoke, then get a job.

Put me in charge of government housing. Ever live in a military barracks? You will maintain our property in a clean and good state of repair. Your home” will be subject to inspections anytime and possessions will be inventoried. If you want a plasma TV or Xbox 360, then get a job and your own place.

In addition, you will either present a check stub from a job each week or you will report to a “government” job. It may be cleaning the roadways of trash, painting and repairing public housing, whatever we find for you. We will sell your 22 inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo and speakers and put that money toward the “common good..”

Before you write that I’ve violated someone’s rights, realize that all of the above is voluntary. If you want our money, accept our rules. Before you say that this would be “demeaning” and ruin their “self esteem,” consider that it wasn’t that long ago that taking someone else’s money for doing absolutely nothing was demeaning and lowered self esteem.

If we are expected to pay for other people’s mistakes we should at least attempt to make them learn from their bad choices. The current system rewards them for continuing to make bad choices.

AND While you are on Gov’t subsistence, you no longer can VOTE! Yes, that is correct.
For you to vote would be a conflict of interest. You will voluntarily remove yourself from voting while you are receiving a Gov’t welfare check. If you want to vote, then get a job.


From the article "Fixing the Problem"- WRITTEN BY A 21 YEAR OLD FEMALE

People like the young woman that wrote this, want to decide how people should live and what they can and can not do, if they receive government assistance.
----Did you read the part where they should be subjected to someone coming in and searching their residence at any time?
She also suggested that you can't vote unless you have a job.
[8|]




dcnovice -> RE: Is it any wonder... (1/7/2013 8:56:54 PM)

FR

Is any wonder that some dude in Texas would throw a boner over poor kids sipping powdered milk while he sterilizes their mothers (but not, curiously, their fathers)?

Is it any wonder that a paper in the aptly named town of Waco would run the piece?

Is it any wonder that this bit of class warrior wish fulfillment (whose real delight is not the modest sums saved by the Treasury but the thrill of rubbing the poor's noses in their poverty and lowliness) would go viral in a nation that considered Mitt Romney presidential timber?

It is any wonder that this bit of poor-bashing would make its way to P&R?

Let's see. That would be no, no, no, and no.




Louve00 -> RE: Is it any wonder... (1/7/2013 9:07:14 PM)


~FR~

I've only read the first couple of pages of this thread, so apologize if this has been addressed but...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

And frankly, people are entitled to spend their money on whatever the hell they want to, however it was attained: can you imagine the shitfit you'd be throwing if some mouthy liberal had suggested that people shouldn't be allowed to buy booze if they own a gun? Given your own aversion to nanny stating, the hypocrisy in your OP is breathtaking.


It's not their money, it's the taxpayers. The rest is pure noise.




When Wall St bankers gave themselves bonuses from the taxpayer money during the bail outs, they were spending taxpayer money without the consent or even the consideration of how they got their money. Take it one step further to corporate welfare.

All these proposals to take rights away from the poor in exchange for helping out the poor, when billion dollar corporations gets their handouts, and continue to do as they please, leaves me with little sympathy for your cause.




Edwynn -> RE: Is it any wonder... (1/7/2013 10:37:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
When there aren't enough jobs to go around due to the work that the bulk of the people who wind up on welfare might have done being outsourced to Asia, that message sounds more like a crypto fascist pipe dream than anything resembling "common sense".


WTF!?!? [8|] Outsourcing isn't the topic. The topic is but one cog in the wheel that needs repairing. Why is it so many like to blow a topic up simply because it does not discuss every facet? Is it purposeful leftist derailment because it's dangerous and anathema to progressive ideology?




To the extent that is 'derailment' to speak of who poured the gasoline and who threw the matches when the discussion is limited to what caught fire first or what burned hottest, yes, I suppose so.




Aedonix -> RE: Is it any wonder... (1/8/2013 12:28:41 AM)

What happens when Democrats begin finding ways to make sure that all Republican workers loose their jobs (Or Republicans doing the same to Democrats depending on who is in power at the time) Thereby making sure that only THEIR voters are able to vote?

You start introducing ways to take people out of the electorate and you are begging for abuse of power.

And yes. this whole notion of no privacy at any time for fear of the Gestapo barging into my house to make sure I don't have too many pairs of socks is also a serious worry.

I think just about every point in the OP has either been shown to be very illegal, completely unworkable, down right insane or just utter horse crap.

How can any of this be defended by anyone with any sort of common sense?

ESPECIALLY without considering the root of the problem (Employment or lack of). or where these NEW jobs will come from.




tazzygirl -> RE: Is it any wonder... (1/8/2013 12:37:57 AM)



Lets have a three way congress... equal numbers of seats for each... and watch them duke it out on live TV!




mons -> RE: Is it any wonder... (1/8/2013 12:44:47 AM)

It does make me laugh when I see articles written about the State of welfare!!!!!

Those whom are on welfare are in this is going to surprise many people but they are
the Chinese Americans yes they are on welfare more then anyone else!

It also makes me scream with laughter when they will make it seem that they are given
so much money! They do not give you enough to live anywhere but piblic housing!

If they truly were given out so much money there would be no "public housing"!!!

No the immigrants are not getting it at all! I know many of these people they work hard doing
anything and everything no one else will!!!!!

When my ex left me and I had nothing I had to get assistance., when my son was 4 they were shocked no
damn surprise when I said "now it the time to get off and I want to get off"they asked me why and no way
stay on and become a depenent on welfare! I had to make them leave me alone so I could move on and work!

It is a system where if you are on housing you do not know how to manage paying your own year after years being their
fool!

There are many you need this, and they have worked and put into this, it is for those who need it!

One youg woman who live on it for so many years and when they did take it away she did not have a clue as to how to
pay her rent or even know manage her family bills! She was mad and shock and did not know where she would live, but forgive me she
did not protect her son from her boyfriend so I did not feel a damn thing for her!!!!

MOns




Edwynn -> RE: Is it any wonder... (1/8/2013 1:24:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
If unemployment isn't the topic, then there is no topic given the content of your OP:


Bullshit! People live their whole lives on government assistance.


Indeed, the top executives at many corporations live generation after generation on government assistance. Witness Exxon, Chevron, Archer Daniels Midland, Monsanto, Koch Bros., not to mention Citigroup, AIG, Goldman Sachs, and a host of others.


Glad you pointed that out.




Politesub53 -> RE: Is it any wonder... (1/8/2013 2:46:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Funnily enough I have noticed people go ape shit if you disagree.



When they're off topic. See, this time I'm not going to be dragged off to someones pinball way of debate; making their point an off topic way.



No pinball.... I addressed topics included in your OP. I apologise if you dont like me having a different view....... okay i dont but you get my drift.



I was not referring to you in my pinball statement, but to your plurality statement I bolded above. Thought that was obvious.

I don't mind your different view. Hope you don't mind if I take exception to it though. This is a discussion.


Strawmanning again ?




Moonhead -> RE: Is it any wonder... (1/8/2013 4:30:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
It's unfortunate welfare has been so highly politicized.

[img]http://www.startrek.com/legacy_media/images/200307/doohan02/320x240.jpg[/img]
Cap'n! The Ironicator cannae take any more!
(If you find that unfortunate, maybe you shouldn't be using Welfare as a topic for your Randian fantasies. Just a thought.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
My point was and still is, as follows. Anytime the government need to justify anything to do with the benefit system, they use the unemployed as scapegoats. IE scrounger status. Official figures show not only is that bogus but fraudulent claims are also much lower then people think.

It's always interesting in that light to compare revenue lost to benefit fraud to revenue lost to tax evasion. The former is an easy target to go for, whereas the latter could raise embarrassing questions, despite being a shitload more money.




PeonForHer -> RE: Is it any wonder... (1/8/2013 5:55:51 AM)

Yachtie, in politics, people very often win or lose arguments on the way they've defined what is, and is not, 'on topic'. That avenue clearly isn't open to you here. There's no point in continuing to demand that it should be.




DomYngBlk -> RE: Is it any wonder... (1/8/2013 6:12:03 AM)

YOU LOST QUIT WHINING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




mnottertail -> RE: Is it any wonder... (1/8/2013 7:23:40 AM)

So, the topic is that a prima facie unconstitutional idea (I laugh calling it that), but voluntary for several million people to dive in and promulgate is the answer to the undefined problem.

I expect that some teabagger stupid enough to introduce such a bill is lined up down there in the house, and a chorus of other pathetic whiners will be on hand to cant that the senate wont even consider the piece of shit?

 




Powergamz1 -> RE: Is it any wonder... (1/8/2013 7:28:43 AM)

Perhaps they shouldn't be allowed to vote either.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
If unemployment isn't the topic, then there is no topic given the content of your OP:


Bullshit! People live their whole lives on government assistance.


Indeed, the top executives at many corporations live generation after generation on government assistance. Witness Exxon, Chevron, Archer Daniels Midland, Monsanto, Koch Bros., not to mention Citigroup, AIG, Goldman Sachs, and a host of others.


Glad you pointed that out.






LizDeluxe -> RE: Is it any wonder... (1/8/2013 8:01:49 AM)

Yeah, maybe society is being too tough...

"Someone needs to be held accountable"





mnottertail -> RE: Is it any wonder... (1/8/2013 8:09:28 AM)

Yeah, that republican government down there in Florida is pretty fucked up. I guess near as bad as that fuzznuts in Texas.




Yachtie -> RE: Is it any wonder... (1/8/2013 8:15:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

YOU LOST QUIT WHINING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



That's laughable, coming from who's best is

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

FR
Some ignorant blogger with Randian fantasies posts a rant by a person claiming to be all of 21 and I'm supposed to take it seriously?



[8D]


What's amazing is that there are a few who do understand the topic and are quite capable of discussing it without the need to go into the cosmos to do it.




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