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EsotericLady -> RE: Being Dismissed!! (2/9/2013 11:57:57 AM)
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Good Morning, LL! : )
First of all, I'm so sorry to hear about what happened with your brother! I hope he's resting peacefully now.
I didn't mean to come across as though her drug addiction was an excuse for tossing everything to the wind and going to live with a man. Oh goodness, not at all. But I believe she went, in greater part, to his telling her he would replace her current addictions with a love for pain instead. So I think there was a big draw coming from him and the realization he could talk her into coming there.
We can agree to disagree about there being a difference between a D/s relationship and a vanilla one. : ) I have no problem with that. I would like to comment that I don't think it is a case of one being more "special" over the other, but I believe the dynamics of trust and emotional nakedness (if you will?) are deeper in a D/s one.
On the other hand, I agree she would have been devastated too, had this been a vanilla relationship.
As for him being a predator...I'm not so sure I would limit that to just DIRECT physical interaction with someone. A predator can be someone who stalks a person from his car yet never talks to them, who makes obscene phone calls yet never meets the person he is calling. I believe there is such a thing as being a mental/emotional predator...someone who feeds on other people's insecurities, self doubt and, in this case, addictions to gain trust and control over them.
Oh! I agree that she didn't mention any conversations they may have shared, nor their day-to-day life. That's why I said I thought there was a lot more to the story than what she shared with us as well.
As for how responsible a Dominant should be for their submissive? I suppose it depends on what type of a relationship they share and what their emotional feelings are for one another.
I don't believe a Dominant need be a psychiatrist, but I would hope if a submissive had a deep cut on their finger due to saying preparing a meal, the Dominant would see they got to an ER to have it looked at.
As for sending her to a therapy group...(shrugs) who is to say. However, the fact that he told her he would replace her drug and sex addictions with painful sessions tells me he was well aware not only of her addictions, but the fact that once a person gets addicted to one thing, he is very easy prey to become addicted to something else. And he actually finaggled (sp?) her into the pain scene as well.
Yes, we know about her feelings in regards to the plane ticket he gave her. She said she begged him to let her stay. She STILL continues to beg him to let her come back to him. ( it's in the OP)
As for what she came home to? Again, she says she came home to no job, apartment, or car...and she doesn't have family that can help her. (it's in the OP)
I don't know what happened to the money she made for selling her things. Pay off bills? Pay off loans? No idea.
There's the possibility that he gave her the ticket back home because he wanted her completely gone, too.
Once AGAIN LL, when someone suggested her getting professional counseling, she said she tried but no one would accept her as a client because she doesn't have health insurance. (It's all in the OP)
And he didn't tell her "it wasn't working." He jumped around with excuses...(also in the OP). First he didn't trust himself with his "dark desires," then he didn't feel that she satisfied him, then he was concerned with her safety.
(Helloooooo?)
I don't get into the whole "snowflake" connotation thing so I really can't reply to that.
However in closing, I'd like to reply to your comment as to your finding it funny that anyone should think we are responsible for other's mental health issues and being humane when we end relationships.
I may very much be a rarity in this...and, if so, that's alright. And I don't believe in "tooting my own horn," so I'm really going out on the proverbial limb in making this known.
But to a CERTAIN EXTENT, I believe each of us responsible for one another.
I'm responsible for pulling someone's child out of harm's way when he doesn't see the car headed straight for him. I'm responsible for being compassionate to those whose homes have burned to the ground and lost everything- by contributing a sweater, or bath soap, or a case of bottled water. I'm responsible for stopping when I see a vehicle upside down in a ditch...and calling 911 if someone is inside unconscious.
I'm responsible for helping an elderly person who looks thoroughly confused to find their way.
And I feel that for two reasons...
One, because each of us are human beings and therefore have that responsibility as such.
And two, because you just might find yourself in that other person's shoes one day... and hoping someone will come along to help you.
(Thanks for reading this very long post.)
quote:
ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
quote:
ORIGINAL: EsotericLady
My goodness! It reads like things have gotten out-of-hand in a very short while in this thread!
I was going to leave a post here, but I'm not so sure I'll get out alive afterwards! Ha! ( Just promise me no rock-throwing, please!)
So I reread the original OP several times... and I found some things I had apparently overlooked before.
As Oside said, they were BOTH responsible for what happened.
However, although I think she was crazy to go to him, especially given the messed up life she was already living in, I think he really manipulated her, and knew what he was doing. He knew she was addicted to drugs and sex, yet did nothing to help the situation except pile one more addiction on top of them.
(He supposedly replaced her additions with a love for pain instead?)
I think he used her for what he could get, and either met someone else, already had someone, or got tired of her and kicked her out...with no sense of conscience or responsibility on his part.
YES! I know many of you think he owed her nothing. That it was his house and his rules. I get that.
But there has to be some lack of humanity involved in knowing full well that you are leaving someone in a situation, without food or a roof over their head, due to YOUR taking advantage of a situation to begin with.
I also think there's a lot more to the story than what she shared with us as well.
So before you start ranting and raving at me about my post, please PLEASE reread the OP carefully. Perhaps you'll find some things you missed as well.
I know I sure surprised MYSELF!
Thank you!
I did miss the statement about her drug problems. The thing is though that it doesn't change my opinion for the good. My brother was a heroine addict (it eventually killed him). I know how difficult it is to get off drugs, but it doesn't create an excuse for stupid decisions to me.
The thing that I see in the OP is that she was a woman with some serious mental health issues that she tried to "cure" through a BDSM relationship (something that seems far too common in my opinion). We see woman all the time crying because they rushed into a D/s relationship before getting to know someone and it didn't work out. Then we hear all the nonsense that D/s relationships are so much more "special" than vanilla and hurt more when a breakup happens.
Well, let's just be realistic here. This woman would have had the same devastation in a vanilla relationship because of HER issues, and that is typically the case for anyone who is desperate to be in a relationship and falls so hard, so fast. They are living only in their reality, as opposed to being able to deal with actual reality.
I've never denied that they both bare the responsibility of what happened. His responsibility is that he had his own problems with reality actually asking a woman he never met to move in with him. But I won't call him a predator because he didn't use her, he didn't rape her. She went there desperate for a relationship. Yes, he knew about her mental health and addiction issues, but that doesn't mean he really knew what it was like to be with someone like that. "Dominant" and "master" are not pseudonyms for therapist no matter how many dominants and masters want to act like they are.
She replaced one addiction for another. She replaced the drugs with him and what they were doing. You talked about re-reading the post, and I did. She talks only of her pure devotion to him and the kink things they did, nothing about their day to day interactions, or any conversations they had other than kink or him asking her to leave. Is that not curious? Did their whole time together consist of nothing but him "teaching" her to accept pain?
Often there are discussions on this board about how a dominant is responsible for their sub. Their health, welfare, emotional well being, etc. But exactly how responsible should they be? Again, dominants aren't therapists, nor should they act like them. Could he have tried to send her to some type of "Anonymous" group? Maybe. Should he have encouraged her to develop some kind of interest in her new town, like getting a job (even part time)? Maybe, but if felt he could support them, maybe not. Should he have considered her mental health issues before extending the invitation (and this is the big one)? Again, MAYBE. Why? Because we have no idea how she presented those mental health issues to him. He may have thought that they weren't all that bad. Until, of course, she was there and they began to really show.
So many people would say that as a "responsible master or dominant" or a "responsible partner" he should have advised her to get some help. Well, the truth is not everyone is so enlightened, nor should they have to be. Perhaps as her issues began to rear their ugly head, he was overwhelmed with a, "shit, this bitch is crazy" kind of feeling. For whatever reason, the one he gave or something else, he wanted out of the relationship.
Now here is another strange thing. She talks about how he gave her a plane ticket for that day. Did she want to stay in Florida and make a life there, so she didn't want the ticket? Don't know. What happened to the money from selling everything she owned? Did he take it? Don't know. She certainly doesn't imply that he did, so why wasn't she able to get herself a new apartment and then get a job? It would seem he gave her the ticket back to where she was from because she never developed any friends or anything where she was, and her going home, she would have someone.
She talks about how she "raised her babies." But she also says how she has "no one." Where are these grown kids? Again, where is the money from selling her stuff? When people here suggest counseling she gives excuses. How telling is that?
I find it really funny that people seem to think that we are responsible for other's mental health issues and being "humane" when we dump them. She doesn't say that he told her, "bitch, you are crazy, get the fuck out of my house." No, he told her it wasn't working and did what he thought was best, send her where he assumed she had a support system. She doesn't say she even talked to him about why he hadn't touched her in two days.
There is MUCH missing from her version of events, so no, I don't think the guy should be vilified or have his testicles sucked out his nose. Telling the OP that he did the right thing in sending her home because he thought if they continued he would hurt her is based on her information. After all, shouldn't someone be given credit for stopping before something bad happens?
The OP isn't some "special little snowflake," who needs coddling. She is someone with mental health issues and addiction problems who needs help, which is what she was told on these boards. She is also someone who lacked enough sense to not sell everything she owned and move in with stranger, and she was told to not do such a thing again.
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