Explaining to 'nilla what I need

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MYNEWUSERID -> Explaining to 'nilla what I need (1/11/2013 4:43:11 PM)
Hi and thanks in advance for any help provided. I am in a vanilla relationship with a man who has been reserved in his sexual practices in the past, but who is culturally and socially dominant. I would like to explain to him my need to be submissive to him in the whole of our relationship but I just can't find the words. It's not about BDSM for me so much as it is about D/s and that concept seems to scare many vanilla men who have had feminisim shoved down their throats for the last 30 years. Most assume that D/s and BDSM go hand and hand but they don't for me - I don't need bondage necessarily but I do need to feel "owned" and a sense of "belonging" and I need him to assert himself in order for that to happen. I've tried exposing him to my previous scene but that didn't interest him at all. He said he didn't enjoy it and that it made him uncomfortable (blatant sexuality perhaps?).. Anyhow - I don't want to top from bottom but after nearly a year in this relationship I need to be used and humiliated and controlled and fucked and owned and exposed. Not every day and not even often but sometimes, once in a while I need to feed the cravings of my soul. The part I was hoping for help with is how to explain my desires to him - in the simplest of ways (for now) and not in a way that will make him think he isn't doing something right, but in a way that will give him the go ahead if he does want to "go there".

OsideGirl -> RE: Explaining to 'nilla what I need (1/11/2013 4:44:27 PM)
There's a really good book called "When someone you love is kinky". It's a really good way to get the discussion off of the ground.

EsotericLady -> RE: Explaining to 'nilla what I need (1/11/2013 5:01:45 PM)
Hello MyNew! :) It's my experience as a Domme that the majority (and that does NOT mean all) of males who are the most culturally and socially dominant in vanilla life are the ones seeking submission in the D/s world. They wish to have the burden of being in charge lifted from their shoulders, for someone else to call the shots, be aggressive in all circumstances be they ordering what they eat in a restaurant to commanding them in the bedroom. It is their "release" from life (literally and figuratively speaking.) Unless I misunderstood what you wrote, I believe you said that you tried to expose him to this Lifestyle but he wasn't interested at all and said he didn't care for it? If so, it sounds to me like you already have your answer as to how to approach him... I personally wouldn't again if I really cared for him and didn't wish to risk his leaving the relationship. I am not sure if this man is your husband? or fiance? or a friend and lover? But if there is no commitment as in one of the first two, could you not find someone else to allow you the submission you crave? Just a thought. And of course I wish you the best outcome! (Thank you) quote: ORIGINAL: MYNEWUSERID Hi and thanks in advance for any help provided. I am in a vanilla relationship with a man who has been reserved in his sexual practices in the past, but who is culturally and socially dominant. I would like to explain to him my need to be submissive to him in the whole of our relationship but I just can't find the words. It's not about BDSM for me so much as it is about D/s and that concept seems to scare many vanilla men who have had feminisim shoved down their throats for the last 30 years. Most assume that D/s and BDSM go hand and hand but they don't for me - I don't need bondage necessarily but I do need to feel "owned" and a sense of "belonging" and I need him to assert himself in order for that to happen. I've tried exposing him to my previous scene but that didn't interest him at all. He said he didn't enjoy it and that it made him uncomfortable (blatant sexuality perhaps?).. Anyhow - I don't want to top from bottom but after nearly a year in this relationship I need to be used and humiliated and controlled and fucked and owned and exposed. Not every day and not even often but sometimes, once in a while I need to feed the cravings of my soul. The part I was hoping for help with is how to explain my desires to him - in the simplest of ways (for now) and not in a way that will make him think he isn't doing something right, but in a way that will give him the go ahead if he does want to "go there".

MYNEWUSERID -> RE: Explaining to 'nilla what I need (1/11/2013 5:09:16 PM)
Thanks for reply. He knows I am kinky and he knows that I've been an exclusive BDSM'er for years now. Of course we don't always get every last thing we want or need from another and I'm really OK with that if it's not something that he can/wants to give. I made the choice to move to 'nilla relationship in order to fulfill other aspects of my life. I just can't help but feel like I am the "horny toad" in this relationship and he is the well controlled 'nilla w/o sexual need. I'm slightly tired trying to "flirt" by saying things like "I had a dream about XXX" and having him reply with "Only you, only you" as though I am some sexual space alien with such foreign desires. :) lol -- I digress. quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl There's a really good book called "When someone you love is kinky". It's a really good way to get the discussion off of the ground.

MYNEWUSERID -> RE: Explaining to 'nilla what I need (1/11/2013 5:25:14 PM)
Hi EsotericLady and thanks for the kind reply. I have exposed him to open sexuality at a club I used to frequent (inclusive of all things kinky) and he said he was uncomfortable after the fact and wouldn't want to go again. You are right in saying that I shouldn't risk the relationship by pushing for something he isn't comfortable with but what I'm looking for is so far from BDSM specific that I don't think he would feel that way. I just don't want to wake up in the morning regretful that my tush isn't sore and have him tell me he didn't F*** it because I didn't say it was "ok"... :) I want a sore tush like everyone else. :) quote: ORIGINAL: EsotericLady Hello MyNew! :) It's my experience as a Domme that the majority (and that does NOT mean all) of males who are the most culturally and socially dominant in vanilla life are the ones seeking submission in the D/s world. They wish to have the burden of being in charge lifted from their shoulders, for someone else to call the shots, be aggressive in all circumstances be they ordering what they eat in a restaurant to commanding them in the bedroom. It is their "release" from life (literally and figuratively speaking.) Unless I misunderstood what you wrote, I believe you said that you tried to expose him to this Lifestyle but he wasn't interested at all and said he didn't care for it? If so, it sounds to me like you already have your answer as to how to approach him... I personally wouldn't again if I really cared for him and didn't wish to risk his leaving the relationship. I am not sure if this man is your husband? or fiance? or a friend and lover? But if there is no commitment as in one of the first two, could you not find someone else to allow you the submission you crave? Just a thought. And of course I wish you the best outcome! (Thank you) quote: ORIGINAL: MYNEWUSERID Hi and thanks in advance for any help provided. I am in a vanilla relationship with a man who has been reserved in his sexual practices in the past, but who is culturally and socially dominant. I would like to explain to him my need to be submissive to him in the whole of our relationship but I just can't find the words. It's not about BDSM for me so much as it is about D/s and that concept seems to scare many vanilla men who have had feminisim shoved down their throats for the last 30 years. Most assume that D/s and BDSM go hand and hand but they don't for me - I don't need bondage necessarily but I do need to feel "owned" and a sense of "belonging" and I need him to assert himself in order for that to happen. I've tried exposing him to my previous scene but that didn't interest him at all. He said he didn't enjoy it and that it made him uncomfortable (blatant sexuality perhaps?).. Anyhow - I don't want to top from bottom but after nearly a year in this relationship I need to be used and humiliated and controlled and fucked and owned and exposed. Not every day and not even often but sometimes, once in a while I need to feed the cravings of my soul. The part I was hoping for help with is how to explain my desires to him - in the simplest of ways (for now) and not in a way that will make him think he isn't doing something right, but in a way that will give him the go ahead if he does want to "go there".

TheLilSquaw -> RE: Explaining to 'nilla what I need (1/11/2013 5:25:29 PM)
Perhaps this sounds really simplistic but it has always worked for me and I haven't always been involved with "lifestylers" or "kinky" folks. I have always just been honest with them. Granted IMO you should have done this long before now. We can't expect someone to meet our needs if they don't know what they are. I have told a man, who had a dominant personality but not in the lifestyle that when a man takes charge of certain things it makes my toes curl. His reaction was oh really what things?

MYNEWUSERID -> RE: Explaining to 'nilla what I need (1/11/2013 5:30:49 PM)
Yes - that's it exactly. I just can't seem to find the words to describe the "what things" question. That question isn't what I've asked myself in recent years and a 'nilla isn't necessarily going to understand what I mean when I say "being owned" - used could mean a whole host of things and it's true that I may be part of the problem as I've become accustomed to being told - not telling. quote: ORIGINAL: TheLilS Perhaps this sounds really simplistic but it has always worked for me and I haven't always been involved with "lifestylers" or "kinky" folks. I have always just been honest with them. Granted IMO you should have done this long before now. We can't expect someone to meet our needs if they don't know what they are. I have told a man, who had a dominant personality but not in the lifestyle that when a man takes charge of certain things it makes my toes curl. His reaction was oh really what things?

littlewonder -> RE: Explaining to 'nilla what I need (1/11/2013 5:47:30 PM)
Make his meals pamper him rub his feet give him massages wash his clothes take care of any chores that need to be done share your sexy thoughts with him tie yourself up in a bow and offer yourself to him asking him to untie his "gift". Don't complain all the time to him. Don't nag Don't do petty little things to annoy him don't push him to be what you want and read The Surrendered Wife My experience has always been that when you become his woman, he becomes your Man. So you want him to dominate you? You want him to be the one in charge? Show him. Now if all you're looking for is to be "forced" then none of the above is going to work for you and imo you won't find that in him unless you do so in a negative way and believe me, you don't want that! But if you want a man who takes the lead as man of the house, then you have to show him that he can be without you being on his back. Allow him to take the lead. ETA: After reading your other responses it seems you more or less are looking for kinky sex. If that's the case, then I really can't help you there. On that thought you may find yourself stuck unless you can get him to agree with an open relationship and even then, I don't see that working for the long run for you. Sorry.

TheLilSquaw -> RE: Explaining to 'nilla what I need (1/11/2013 5:59:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MYNEWUSERID Yes - that's it exactly. I just can't seem to find the words to describe the "what things" question. That question isn't what I've asked myself in recent years and a 'nilla isn't necessarily going to understand what I mean when I say "being owned" - used could mean a whole host of things and it's true that I may be part of the problem as I've become accustomed to being told - not telling. Since you already have a successful relationship, you're used to communicating and compromising. If you want him to be in charge, tell him that and give him examples of things you would enjoy him controlling. I wouldn't get caught up on labels and I'd start out with subtle every day things and if you are both comfortable move to other things. Examples: Choosing what / when you eat dinner. Nude when you go to bed Washing him in the shower Him picking out your clothes for the day. You can also do things like sit on the floor next to his feet when hes on the couch, lay your head on his lap. Subtle little things like that. If you are looking for the kinky sex aspect. Ask if he can tie you up and blind fold you with scarfs and then he can do what ever he likes to you.

MYNEWUSERID -> RE: Explaining to 'nilla what I need (1/11/2013 6:12:33 PM)
Thanks for your reply it was very helpful. I'm not looking for kinky sex but I am looking for sex that is fulfilling for both of us. I wholeheartedly agree with everything you've said and would say that what you've described has been the dynamic of our relationship so far. In fact I've told many friends that we are only able to get along so well because I am submissive to him and he is the natural dom full of expectations but few words. :) I hadn't heard of that book and will give it a read and then pass it along to a few g/fs.. :) Thanks again. quote: ORIGINAL: little wonder Make his meals pamper him rub his feet give him massages wash his clothes take care of any chores that need to be done share your sexy thoughts with him tie yourself up in a bow and offer yourself to him asking him to untie his "gift". Don't complain all the time to him. Don't nag Don't do petty little things to annoy him don't push him to be what you want and read The Surrendered Wife My experience has always been that when you become his woman, he becomes your Man. So you want him to dominate you? You want him to be the one in charge? Show him. Now if all you're looking for is to be "forced" then none of the above is going to work for you and imo you won't find that in him unless you do so in a negative way and believe me, you don't want that! But if you want a man who takes the lead as man of the house, then you have to show him that he can be without you being on his back. Allow him to take the lead. ETA: After reading your other responses it seems you more or less are looking for kinky sex. If that's the case, then I really can't help you there. On that thought you may find yourself stuck unless you can get him to agree with an open relationship and even then, I don't see that working for the long run for you. Sorry.

poise -> RE: Explaining to 'nilla what I need (1/11/2013 6:21:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MYNEWUSERID I have exposed him to open sexuality at a club I used to frequent and he said he was uncomfortable after the fact and wouldn't want to go again. Being that he is sexually conservative, I doubt he would have any interest in being kinky with you, especially in a club full of strangers. Some of the kinkiest of people prefer their relationship to take place behind closed doors. quote: ORIGINAL: MYNEWUSERID I need to be used and humiliated and controlled and fucked and owned and exposed. You can take care of two of these needs on your own, and perhaps inspire him to take over the rest. Be waiting for him, naked and on your hands and knees, when he comes home, or any other opportune time that you can think of. Don't move, don't be apologetic, and most of all, don't suggest what it is you are hoping he does with you. Let him own the moment. You will definitely be exposed, and depending on his reaction, you could possibly also be humiliated, as there is no guarantee how he will respond. But it is a sure fire way of telling him your needs, without the need for words.

Dreadmath -> RE: Explaining to 'nilla what I need (1/11/2013 6:31:22 PM)
So far you have told us what you want and what methods you used to convey your desires to him. But you have mentioned little about what he wants, how he thinks and how he behaves past the fact that he didn't like the BDSM club you frequented and he is dominant in his daily life (Please correct if mistaken). You should try to understand how he thinks about a D/s relationship (Does he like some aspects? What aspects does he dislike? Perhaps he needs to see it from a different angle or without the preconception of "politically incorrect"). You can do this by carefully observing him but also by talking to him about it (Talk with him over coffee, approach him when he is comfortable) . If you can generate a good model about how he thinks and what he wants, you can then draw the kink out of him (It is my firm belief that we are all one way or another kinky, and that can only grow as we spend time exploring it). As has been mentioned, there are books about communication; I would personally recommend 'Psychology of Intelligence Analysis' which you can download legally online for free. It has some concrete knowledge about how people perceive things and think about them and perhaps it will assist you in making your model. As long as you respect him, don't push him and communicate your earnest feelings, I don't think he will be scared off (Or at least he shouldn't be, if he loves you). If that fails and you have no other alternative strategy, then you need to put things down and consider what is important to you and if some form of compromise can be reached. In the end you might have to give him an ultimatum where he either reevaluates how he handles your desires, or you move on. Life is short, you have a finite number of years ahead of you and there are many people out there who can give you what you want. It's nice to try to do your best with someone you have grown close to but in the end you need to know when to let go. Otherwise you might end up regretting it later (Refer to a post in these forums about a sub whose Dom has been in prison for 7 years, an excessive but illustrative example). I think you will do fine though, hope it all goes well for you ^^.

theRose4U -> RE: Explaining to 'nilla what I need (1/12/2013 6:58:35 AM)
FR You exposed him to kink...he said NO You want to submit but won't listen to what he says You've been in a year long relationship, presumably with vanilla sex but claim to be "exclusively BDSM" How is this not topping from the bottom?? You wouldn't perhaps be a writer involved with a muslim in his home country that perhaps changed nick believing the 4th time this topic comes up would magically come up with a different answer??

DesFIP -> RE: Explaining to 'nilla what I need (1/12/2013 9:51:29 AM)
Beyond all this is whether or not his sex drive is as high as yours. If he's fine having sex once a week whereas you want it nightly, then you have to talk about it. Would you be okay having it every other day instead of daily? Would he be okay using his hands and toys on you when he isn't interested? And this is something you have to talk about very openly.

SimplyMichael -> RE: Explaining to 'nilla what I need (1/12/2013 9:59:10 AM)
My advice is to kill off that stupid voice that talks about topping from the bottom. Tell thr guy that the stuff you lobe turns you on like mad, walk him through it a few times, reward him with whattever trips HIS trigger and,see what happens. The problem people have getting started is a fear their partner,is only,humoring,them,for being kinky,and,if they open up they risk rejection. So they open up a bit, get rejected and clam up. So, cut him a bunch of slack, lay off any criticism until he starts gaining confidence. Then couch your criticim not in what he did wrong but in additiin ways that turn you on even more. Not "i dont like how you spank me" vs "i get crazed with lust when you spank me this way"

LafayetteLady -> RE: Explaining to 'nilla what I need (1/12/2013 11:09:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MYNEWUSERID Anyhow - I don't want to top from bottom but after nearly a year in this relationship I need to be used and humiliated and controlled and fucked and owned and exposed. Not every day and not even often but sometimes, once in a while I need to feed the cravings of my soul. quote: I'm not looking for kinky sex but I am looking for sex that is fulfilling for both of us. And you don't think the bold part is kinky sex? What exactly do you think it is?

MYNEWUSERID -> RE: Explaining to 'nilla what I need (1/12/2013 12:14:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: theRose4U I have absolutely NO idea what/who you are talking about and think you may be in need of medication if this is your idea of a way to kill time. FR You exposed him to kink...he said NO You want to submit but won't listen to what he says You've been in a year long relationship, presumably with vanilla sex but claim to be "exclusively BDSM" How is this not topping from the bottom?? You wouldn't perhaps be a writer involved with a muslim in his home country that perhaps changed nick believing the 4th time this topic comes up would magically come up with a different answer??

MYNEWUSERID -> RE: Explaining to 'nilla what I need (1/12/2013 12:34:02 PM)
I don't happen to think it's "kinky sex" but that might be because I'm desensitized to it all. We don't have sex nightly and it feels as though if I didn't initiate sex he'd be ok with kissing for hours on end. His reaction to comments I made (as a way to be playful or lighten the mood) is even conservative. Is it so wrong for me to want him to mind fuck me when we can't fuck each other (life circumstance).. I don't think initiating dirty talk when apart or him playing in to my interests is that kinky. I know he likes ass play (even though he had never tried it prior to me) so I give him what he wants. I know from conversation that he is the type that would be ok never getting what he wants simply because he is in "love" and so I don't think sex has even been a priority for him. If you ask once and your g/f rejects you some men have the confidence to ask over and over and some don't. He is not one that would ask more than once - he has plenty of pride. So I know that's been his past sexual experience - this is an example of the type of thing that will happen. We go away for a night together - we bring toys and various other "love toys" and they sit there. We have 'nilla sex a couple of times - go to sleep. Never bring up that we didn't even use the toys and when finally after a few times of this happening I do he says "you didn't ask me to so I didn't. I'm thinking WTF - we went to buy them together, we talked about ways we could use them, we brought them in to hotel before dinner etc.. Yet, you want me to give you the go ahead to use them? I thought it was just assumed that he could do what he wants (esp since it's been discussed that I enjoy it). I've asked and well I get no response. I have no idea what he likes and he did say "I'm simple like any other man" - Also it is entirely possible that I have a much higher sex drive than him and right now his sex drive is about once every 2 weeks. From a vanilla standpoint it annoys me that he puts NO thought in to this aspect of our relationship. One that is perfectly valid and important and needs to be addressed unless of course the going rate is to be sexually unfilled in which case I should just accept that this is how it's gonna be. :) quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady quote: ORIGINAL: MYNEWUSERID Anyhow - I don't want to top from bottom but after nearly a year in this relationship I need to be used and humiliated and controlled and fucked and owned and exposed. Not every day and not even often but sometimes, once in a while I need to feed the cravings of my soul. quote: I'm not looking for kinky sex but I am looking for sex that is fulfilling for both of us. And you don't think the bold part is kinky sex? What exactly do you think it is?

LafayetteLady -> RE: Explaining to 'nilla what I need (1/12/2013 8:12:55 PM)
Being "used, humiliated, controlled and exposed by someone is typically thought of as kinky sex, so yes, that is what you are asking for. Aside from that, it really sounds like you aren't communicating to him very well. If he says he didn't use the toys because you didn't ask him to, then ask him! You DO NOT have a D/s relationship, so there can be no topping from the bottom since you aren't dom and sub at this point. It is just somewhere that you would like to get to. If you don't give him some very explicit leads, he isn't going to get the hint, obviously. It's a wonder you haven't been able to figure this out. As for the lower sex drive, again, COMMUNICATE this with him. You keep talking about what you ASSUME he is thinking, not what he has TOLD you. They could be two different things. If you aren't comfortable talking to him about this stuff, then we certainly can't help you.

theRose4U -> RE: Explaining to 'nilla what I need (1/12/2013 10:02:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MYNEWUSERID quote: ORIGINAL: theRose4U I have absolutely NO idea what/who you are talking about and think you may be in need of medication if this is your idea of a way to kill time. FR You exposed him to kink...he said NO You want to submit but won't listen to what he says You've been in a year long relationship, presumably with vanilla sex but claim to be "exclusively BDSM" How is this not topping from the bottom?? You wouldn't perhaps be a writer involved with a muslim in his home country that perhaps changed nick believing the 4th time this topic comes up would magically come up with a different answer?? Me thinks thou doth protest too much, my lovers don't have problems in bed...

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