RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4"x worse than U.S.

RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4"x worse than U.S. (Full Version)

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Powergamz1 -> RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4"x worse than U.S. (1/13/2013 9:33:26 PM)
What is the UCR case control number for 'workplace incident'? quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic you mean they dont count as murders?? or just the clarification? Fort Hood for example counts not as a terrorist attack but as a workplace incident. I would think, like politesub, that terrorist attacks would count here under the same classification as those killed or injured in a war. However with the administrations obsesion with pretending there is no terrorism it becomes a moot point. Hope I addressed the point you were looking for if not I am willing to try again

meatcleaver -> RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4"x worse than U.S. (1/14/2013 1:41:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Assault... 2010 UK... 664.4 US... 250.9 Sweden... 936.6 I suspect but have no way of proving it, alcohol has a large impact on Swedish figures. Sweden with its strict puritanical alcohol laws has a problem with alcohol driven violence. I know years ago when I first took the Frederikshavn-Goteburg ferry between Denmark and Sweden, half the people on the ferry were Swedes who had been to Denmark for drunken weekend out. There were fights breaking out all the time. I later found out alcohol violence was a major concern in Sweden which is why all aclcohol outlets are owned by the government (which I suspect perpetuates the problem). I tried to find some stats but I couldn't find any not in a dense text but I did find a comparison of Sweden with Canada (yep, I know, strange) of 35% repored violent crimes in Canada associated with alcohol to 85% of Swedish reported violent crime associated with alcohol. Yes, statistics, statistics and damn lies!(?) Who knows, trying to make sense of all the information is a mine field. Mind you, Swedes come across as a very repressed conformist people to me, it comes as little surprise to me if they are likely to blow up now and again.

Lucylastic -> RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4"x worse than U.S. (1/14/2013 4:27:42 AM)
Meat, The statistic of alcohol related crime between canada and sweden, might have something to do with the fact that many liquor and beer outlets in canada are govmnt run? so they have a statistic for the govmnt? Canada All provinces except Alberta and British Columbia have government-owned retail liquor monopolies. Alberta has only privately owned liquor stores. British Columbia has both private and government-owned retail liquor outlets. Due to federal law, all provincial liquor boards must act as the first importer of alcoholic beverages.[3][4] Alberta - Only liquor stores may sell alcoholic beverages in urban areas, but unlike other provinces they are all privately owned and operated. Recently the province has allowed supermarkets to open attached liquor stores, but with separate entrances. Urban gasoline (petrol) stations and convenience stores may also have attached liquor stores but with separate entrances and ownership. In areas without another liquor retailer within a 15 km radius, any licensed retailer may sell beer, wine, and liquor, including convenience stores, general stores, and gasoline (petrol) stations. The AGLC has retained its monopoly over the wholesaling of imported beer, wine and distilled spirits, although the distribution of these products is done by a private contractor. British Columbia - Alcoholic beverages may be sold only: in privately owned retail stores (stores can only be operated by primary liquor license holders, such as bars, pubs and hotels, but the stores can be located off site) in government-owned stores, in rural government-appointed liquor agencies (which may be a gas station or convenience store). There are also VQA (Vintners Quality Alliance) wine stores, which are privately owned. These stores only sell only British Columbia wines that have the VQA designation; these wines are sold at the same price as in the government liquor stores. There are also a limited number of private wine shops, which can sell both British Columbia and non-British Columbia wines.[5] In 2012 British Columbia announced it planned to fully privatize liquor wholesale distribution by 2015. In September 2012 the initiative to privatize liquor wholesale distribution was cancelled, a term agreed upon during contract negotiations with the BCGEU. Manitoba - Only hotels may sell chilled domestic beer. Beer, Wine, and Liquor only sold by government owned Liquor Marts. There are also a limited number of private wine retailers in Manitoba as well. New Brunswick - Only government owned liquor stores or rural government appointed liquor agencies may sell beer, wine, and liquor. However, breweries and cottage wineries may sell directly to the public if licensed to do so. Newfoundland and Labrador - Convenience Stores may sell beer that is brewed locally. Wine, liquor and imported beer is only sold by government owned liquor stores, or rural government appointed liquor agencies. Nova Scotia - In the past, only the provincially-owned NSLC (Nova Scotia Liquor Corporation) could sell liquor products, including hard liquor, wine, and beer. Many NSLC locations are connected to grocery stores. Over the past five years, the NSLC began to allow a limited number of small private agency stores to operate in rural areas where there is not a NSLC location. Ontario - Brewers Retail Inc. (operating as The Beer Store), originally owned by a co-operative of Ontario brewers but now owned by multinational brewers mostly based outside Canada, is the only privately owned entity that can sell beer. Only the provincially-owned Liquor Control Board of Ontario (LCBO) may sell hard liquor or wine, though it also sells beer, particularly in small markets that Brewers Retail does not serve. There are also a limited number of privately owned specialty wine stores: Wine Rack, run by Vincor International and The Wine Shop (formerly Vineyards Estate Wines), run by Andres Wines. The province allows Ontario wineries to maintain a fixed number of off-site retail locations under a clause that was grandfathered into legislation when the Canada-US free-trade agreement came into effect in 1989, and further allowed by WTO regulations implemented in 1995. Ontario is the only province where a winery is able to form a partnership with a department store to operate such retail locations.[6][7] Prince Edward Island - Only government owned liquor stores may sell beer, wine, and liquor. Québec - Only the provincially-owned Société des alcools du Québec (SAQ) may sell hard liquor. Wine (that is bottled in Québec or distributed through a Québec representative) and beer (that is brewed in Québec or imported beer that is distributed by a local brewer) can be purchased at dépanneurs (corner stores) and supermarkets. Saskatchewan - Only hotels, government-owned stores, and rural private/government liquor stores (i.e., private contractors) may sell beer, wine, and liquor. There has been a discussion recently to allow convenience stores to sell, here in ontario at least. It was a big shock to me when I moved here that you couldnt find booze or liquor in supermarkets and corner stores

jlf1961 -> RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4"x worse than U.S. (1/14/2013 5:30:58 AM)
Lucy, you mean the Canadian government has control over booze? You citizens need to stage a revolt forthwith. No government should control the flow of booze to the people. Or cigarettes. Actually, there is probably some correlation between alcohol consumption and stupidity based crimes against people.

BamaD -> RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4"x worse than U.S. (1/14/2013 4:47:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 What is the UCR case control number for 'workplace incident'? quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic you mean they dont count as murders?? or just the clarification? Fort Hood for example counts not as a terrorist attack but as a workplace incident. I would think, like politesub, that terrorist attacks would count here under the same classification as those killed or injured in a war. However with the administrations obsesion with pretending there is no terrorism it becomes a moot point. Hope I addressed the point you were looking for if not I am willing to try again who cares it has been stated enough times by enough people with widely diverse leanings that it is an accepted fact

BamaD -> RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4"x worse than U.S. (1/14/2013 4:48:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Lucy, you mean the Canadian government has control over booze? You citizens need to stage a revolt forthwith. No government should control the flow of booze to the people. Or cigarettes. Actually, there is probably some correlation between alcohol consumption and stupidity based crimes against people. It was the same way in Alabama for years but we fixwd that a decade or so ago

tj444 -> RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4"x worse than U.S. (1/14/2013 5:09:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic There has been a discussion recently to allow convenience stores to sell, here in ontario at least. It was a big shock to me when I moved here that you couldnt find booze or liquor in supermarkets and corner stores Being born in Western Canada, I am just so used to making a special trip to the liquor store if you want booze.. for me its a deterent to buying the stuff (ok, I sometimes do like my Bristol Cream but I dont make a booze run for it lol), that and in BC at least, its very highly taxed and giving the govt even more money voluntarily, that in itself puts me off! [:D] But here in the US, the grocery stores carry booze and I simply dont think in those terms, of buying it and I never have in the few years of being down here.. its just such a foreign thought to me.. buying booze and my groceries together??? [sm=ofcourse.gif] ..perish the thought!

Lucylastic -> RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4"x worse than U.S. (1/14/2013 5:53:01 PM)
heheheh I ran a "offy" (off license) for a while back when I was single.. in the UK< then you could buy it in supermarkets.. never stopped anyone getting drunk and violent.Just govmnt getting taxes. I feel the same way about drinking now, its just not in my window of need.

Powergamz1 -> RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4"x worse than U.S. (1/14/2013 6:28:45 PM)
Like Obama's Kenyan birth and Muslim faith has been stated so many times by so many people? Here's a hint: The UCR is Uniform Crimes Report. The wrongful and intentional killing of people with a gun is a crime, 'workplace incidents' (like someone falling into a machine and dying) are not. There is no CCN for the latter. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 What is the UCR case control number for 'workplace incident'? quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic you mean they dont count as murders?? or just the clarification? Fort Hood for example counts not as a terrorist attack but as a workplace incident. I would think, like politesub, that terrorist attacks would count here under the same classification as those killed or injured in a war. However with the administrations obsesion with pretending there is no terrorism it becomes a moot point. Hope I addressed the point you were looking for if not I am willing to try again who cares it has been stated enough times by enough people with widely diverse leanings that it is an accepted fact

Powergamz1 -> RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4"x worse than U.S. (1/14/2013 6:31:26 PM)
In some places in the US the groceries carry booze. In other places you have to buy it at the counter of the government agency (Alcoholic Beverage Control board) office. quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic There has been a discussion recently to allow convenience stores to sell, here in ontario at least. It was a big shock to me when I moved here that you couldnt find booze or liquor in supermarkets and corner stores Being born in Western Canada, I am just so used to making a special trip to the liquor store if you want booze.. for me its a deterent to buying the stuff (ok, I sometimes do like my Bristol Cream but I dont make a booze run for it lol), that and in BC at least, its very highly taxed and giving the govt even more money voluntarily, that in itself puts me off! [:D] But here in the US, the grocery stores carry booze and I simply dont think in those terms, of buying it and I never have in the few years of being down here.. its just such a foreign thought to me.. buying booze and my groceries together??? [sm=ofcourse.gif] ..perish the thought!

BamaD -> RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4"x worse than U.S. (1/14/2013 7:58:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 Like Obama's Kenyan birth and Muslim faith has been stated so many times by so many people? Here's a hint: The UCR is Uniform Crimes Report. The wrongful and intentional killing of people with a gun is a crime, 'workplace incidents' (like someone falling into a machine and dying) are not. There is no CCN for the latter. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 What is the UCR case control number for 'workplace incident'? quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic you mean they dont count as murders?? or just the clarification? Fort Hood for example counts not as a terrorist attack but as a workplace incident. I would think, like politesub, that terrorist attacks would count here under the same classification as those killed or injured in a war. However with the administrations obsesion with pretending there is no terrorism it becomes a moot point. Hope I addressed the point you were looking for if not I am willing to try again who cares it has been stated enough times by enough people with widely diverse leanings that it is an accepted fact Closer reading would revealed to you the phrase divers leanings. nice try but Obama has refered to it as a workplace incident, yes it is a killing of the same nature as someone going postal, what is your point are you trying to say it was recorded as an act of terrorism when both the A G and President insist that it was not one? Same sd the Sikh Temple shooting with the denial that it was a terrorist act. The only thing I was stating in the first comment was that currently we have been treating acts if terror as if they were normal crimes thus, for the momment. That was in no way intended as an arrack on Obama or anyone else just a statement of fact. Would you be more comfortable with the term workplace violence?

BamaD -> RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4"x worse than U.S. (1/14/2013 8:03:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 In some places in the US the groceries carry booze. In other places you have to buy it at the counter of the government agency (Alcoholic Beverage Control board) office. quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic There has been a discussion recently to allow convenience stores to sell, here in ontario at least. It was a big shock to me when I moved here that you couldnt find booze or liquor in supermarkets and corner stores Being born in Western Canada, I am just so used to making a special trip to the liquor store if you want booze.. for me its a deterent to buying the stuff (ok, I sometimes do like my Bristol Cream but I dont make a booze run for it lol), that and in BC at least, its very highly taxed and giving the govt even more money voluntarily, that in itself puts me off! [:D] But here in the US, the grocery stores carry booze and I simply dont think in those terms, of buying it and I never have in the few years of being down here.. its just such a foreign thought to me.. buying booze and my groceries together??? [sm=ofcourse.gif] ..perish the thought! I don't know but have been told that 20 years ago Pa was like that too

Powergamz1 -> RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4"x worse than U.S. (1/15/2013 12:04:26 AM)
Again... You claimed that that the Ft. Hood deaths were not counted as an index crime of murder, but were instead entered into the crime stats as 'workplace incidents'. That claim is simply nonsense, there is no such crime as 'workplace incident'. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 Like Obama's Kenyan birth and Muslim faith has been stated so many times by so many people? Here's a hint: The UCR is Uniform Crimes Report. The wrongful and intentional killing of people with a gun is a crime, 'workplace incidents' (like someone falling into a machine and dying) are not. There is no CCN for the latter. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 What is the UCR case control number for 'workplace incident'? quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic you mean they dont count as murders?? or just the clarification? Fort Hood for example counts not as a terrorist attack but as a workplace incident. I would think, like politesub, that terrorist attacks would count here under the same classification as those killed or injured in a war. However with the administrations obsesion with pretending there is no terrorism it becomes a moot point. Hope I addressed the point you were looking for if not I am willing to try again who cares it has been stated enough times by enough people with widely diverse leanings that it is an accepted fact Closer reading would revealed to you the phrase divers leanings. nice try but Obama has refered to it as a workplace incident, yes it is a killing of the same nature as someone going postal, what is your point are you trying to say it was recorded as an act of terrorism when both the A G and President insist that it was not one? Same sd the Sikh Temple shooting with the denial that it was a terrorist act. The only thing I was stating in the first comment was that currently we have been treating acts if terror as if they were normal crimes thus, for the momment. That was in no way intended as an arrack on Obama or anyone else just a statement of fact. Would you be more comfortable with the term workplace violence?

BamaD -> RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4"x worse than U.S. (1/15/2013 9:41:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 Again... You claimed that that the Ft. Hood deaths were not counted as an index crime of murder, but were instead entered into the crime stats as 'workplace incidents'. That claim is simply nonsense, there is no such crime as 'workplace incident'. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 Like Obama's Kenyan birth and Muslim faith has been stated so many times by so many people? Here's a hint: The UCR is Uniform Crimes Report. The wrongful and intentional killing of people with a gun is a crime, 'workplace incidents' (like someone falling into a machine and dying) are not. There is no CCN for the latter. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 What is the UCR case control number for 'workplace incident'? quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic you mean they dont count as murders?? or just the clarification? Fort Hood for example counts not as a terrorist attack but as a workplace incident. I would think, like politesub, that terrorist attacks would count here under the same classification as those killed or injured in a war. However with the administrations obsesion with pretending there is no terrorism it becomes a moot point. Hope I addressed the point you were looking for if not I am willing to try again who cares it has been stated enough times by enough people with widely diverse leanings that it is an accepted fact Closer reading would revealed to you the phrase divers leanings. nice try but Obama has refered to it as a workplace incident, yes it is a killing of the same nature as someone going postal, what is your point are you trying to say it was recorded as an act of terrorism when both the A G and President insist that it was not one? Same sd the Sikh Temple shooting with the denial that it was a terrorist act. The only thing I was stating in the first comment was that currently we have been treating acts if terror as if they were normal crimes thus, for the momment. That was in no way intended as an arrack on Obama or anyone else just a statement of fact. Would you be more comfortable with the term workplace violence? I see the problem I said they weren't counted as terrorism not that they were not counted as murder. The confusion was no doubt caused by my using the word incident instead of violence which is actually the correct term. It is counted as muder.

tazzygirl -> RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4"x worse than U.S. (1/15/2013 9:58:20 PM)
quote: I don't know but have been told that 20 years ago Pa was like that too In Pittsburgh, one grocery chain has the right to sell beer... nothing more than 2 six packs at a time. if a cafe is attached, you can drink beer inside as long as you are eating. Other than that http://www.popcitymedia.com/features/guidewine082411.aspx PA in general... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_laws_of_Pennsylvania Even restaurants have to order their alcohol then wait for delivery.

thezeppo -> RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4"x worse than U.S. (1/16/2013 2:31:31 AM)
Where did the OP go? Do they get off on being incredibly wrong and having their arse handed to them?

meatcleaver -> RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4"x worse than U.S. (1/16/2013 5:25:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thezeppo Where did the OP go? Do they get off on being incredibly wrong and having their arse handed to them? Incredibly wrong I think. The OP is a lesson in the dangers of using the first headline statistics you come across as evidence that is beyond being challenged.

Powergamz1 -> RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4"x worse than U.S. (1/16/2013 6:24:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I see the problem I said they weren't counted as terrorism not that they were not counted as murder. The confusion was no doubt caused by my using the word incident instead of violence which is actually the correct term. It is counted as muder. My apologies, I drew the wrong conclusion, that you were saying that the US stats were off, due to some government conspiracy to cover up murder stats.

Powergamz1 -> RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4"x worse than U.S. (1/16/2013 6:27:15 AM)
Oddly enough, (and perhaps for once), their fundamental premise was correct... for all the denier games being played in this thread, violent crime in England (per the BHO stats as adjusted for reality), is alarmingly high. Their 400% claim might be off in magnitude, but not in direction. Even after declining for several years, the rate is significant. http://www.statistics.gov.uk/hub/crime-justice/crime/violent-and-sexual-crime quote: ORIGINAL: thezeppo Where did the OP go? Do they get off on being incredibly wrong and having their arse handed to them?

meatcleaver -> RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4"x worse than U.S. (1/16/2013 6:36:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 Oddly enough, (and perhaps for once), their fundamental premise was correct... for all the denier games being played in this thread, violent crime in England (per the BHO stats as adjusted for reality), is alarmingly high. Their 400% claim might be off in magnitude, but not in direction. I've worked in probation in England, The Netherlands and Germany and all three collate crimes stats differently and all three define violent crime differently. The bare statistics can't be compared with each other without cultural understanding of each country and then adequate adjustment of the figures.

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