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Help explaining my needs as a submissive - 1/13/2013 12:42:40 PM

Hisgoodgirl88

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Joined: 1/13/2013
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I've been with my boyfriend for 3 years; I am an experienced submissive and he is a newer dominant. It has taken him a long time to be comfortable with that side of himself and I am happy to say that he is growing constantly and loving every minute now that he's letting himself enjoy it :). I am certainly not here to complain, because he is wonderful, but he is still mostly a bedroom dominant and I need more. I don't want to be his slave, but I do need that constant pressing feeling of being owned and subjugated in order to relax and be calm. I've seen him trying to be more dominant with me in our every day life (since our natural dynamic lilts towards that, it hasn't been hard), but I see him hesitating a lot and he worries that hes crossing a boundary by telling me what to do (yes, we have discussed it).

My issue is that I've found myself lacking the ability to express *why* it is ok and that it's something I need, which leaves both of us frustrated and hesitant. I want to express to him that I love and trust him and need to put myself entirely in his hands to be able to truly submit to him - that I can't turn it on and off like a switch without exposing myself to hurt. I crave being told that I'm a good girl, and allowed to sometimes sit on the floor by his feet while he's screwing around on the computer without feeling like *I'm* pushing a boundary, but for some reason I can't explain that to him.

What could a submissive say to you that would make you understand this? I know it is an oddly broad question, but I'm looking for people's personal thoughts, not a script of what to say.

Post #: 1

RE: Help explaining my needs as a submissive - 1/13/2013 12:46:38 PM

Dreadmath

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Show him your post ^^.

(in reply to Hisgoodgirl88)

Post #: 2

RE: Help explaining my needs as a submissive - 1/13/2013 12:56:03 PM

SinFix

Posts: 866
Joined: 4/1/2011
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I kinda agree with Dread.. Write down what you want to say, then either show him the letter or read him the letter... Discuss afterwards..

(in reply to Dreadmath)

Post #: 3

RE: Help explaining my needs as a submissive - 1/13/2013 12:57:50 PM

Hisgoodgirl88

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Joined: 1/13/2013
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It seems so obvious when someone else says it :P. While writing I kept thinking "why is it so easy to write it here, but so hard to say?". I guess sometimes it just takes writing the problem down to see the obvious solution. Thank you :).

(in reply to Hisgoodgirl88)

Post #: 4

RE: Help explaining my needs as a submissive - 1/13/2013 1:01:21 PM

Dreadmath

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Joined: 1/10/2013
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When you are stuck somewhere with a problem that you have been working with for some time, the way to go is to seek out someone else's opinion (Common engineering practice ^^). Half of the time you find the answer as you are explaining your problem and the other half they find it for you.

(in reply to Hisgoodgirl88)

Post #: 5

RE: Help explaining my needs as a submissive - 1/13/2013 1:01:50 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
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exactly what you typed. Why can't you just tell him that? You seemed to have no problem telling us. If you can't do it face to face then either show him this thread or write it out and ask him to read it.

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to Hisgoodgirl88)

Post #: 6

RE: Help explaining my needs as a submissive - 1/13/2013 1:54:24 PM

AthenaSurrenders

Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hisgoodgirl88

It seems so obvious when someone else says it :P. While writing I kept thinking "why is it so easy to write it here, but so hard to say?". I guess sometimes it just takes writing the problem down to see the obvious solution. Thank you :).

I still write things down from time to time, as a conversation starter. It helps me organise my thoughts so I put them across as clearly as possible, and it gives him time and space to read several times if need be and think about the response. Then we're both in a better place to discuss it.

I think the things you mention are relatively common in new D/s relationships. You say you want him to take charge outside of the bedroom, but not to be his slave. Have you tried painting him a picture of what exactly that means? Since 'slave' means different things to different people, he might not be sure where the line is. Do you want him to tell you how to dress? How to eat? When to go to bed? Do you want him to control all of the money? To control when you can masturbate? Do you want a list of chores? You've been getting to grips with how you feel about this for several years, it will take him time to see it as clearly as you do.

Take it really slowly. Ask him to take some time to think of what he would expect from his sub. Dinner on the table every night? Keeping up with studies? Doing voluntary work on the weekends? Never getting drunk in public? Always keeping your nails neat? This might be a hard question for him since he won't want to feel like he's overloading you. Perhaps see if he can come up with one thing, and then commit to giving it a try. Say he decides you have to ask his permission before buying any luxuries for yourself - then do it. Stick to it for a set period of time, and then have an evening when you both discuss honestly how it worked for you. Did it make any difference at all? Did it annoy him that you phoned him up at work to ask if you could buy a latte? Did you feel frustrated? Did it make you both feel yummy? Take the pressure off him - make sure he knows you will give his suggestions a good honest try (ie no pouting if it's a rule you don't like) and that you will also be honest with him so that it can be changed if necessary (if, say, you're losing sleep because the chores list is so long it keeps you up late). Accept his authority if he says the rule stands.

Also, decide on consequences. If you slip up, what will happen? Will there be reminders? Punishments? Does he need to check up on you, or will you keep yourself in check? Does a broken rule mean the rule needs to be changed, or that the sub needs to be brought into line? This part is one of the trickiest bits to figure out at the beginning, to make sure it's supporting and not damaging the relationship.

I'm of the philosophy that if it's making your relationship better, it's the right thing to do, so don't be afraid to ditch things that don't work. As long as you are both working together on this, you will get there. You will find that fewer changes need to be made as time goes on.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking that you are topping from the bottom if you ask for something - expressing feelings and needs is not topping from the bottom, it is merely giving him the information he needs to be a good dom. He still gets the final say. And also remember that a dynamic needs to be built from the ground up, and that means input and work from both of you. It's unrealistic to expect to step right into D/s without making adjustments - I say that as someone who greatly underestimated the amount of ongoing negotiation and adapting that needed to be done in the early days.

Short version: communicate, make a plan, try it out, communicate, adjust the plan etc etc for the rest of your lives.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to Hisgoodgirl88)

Post #: 7

RE: Help explaining my needs as a submissive - 1/14/2013 8:40:42 AM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
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What could a submissive say to you that would make you understand this?
You want my opinion? Nothing. There is not a damned thing you can say that will help much. You know what does help -- a LOT? Submitting. Dominance and submission are two sides of the same coin and they feed off of each other. Just go ahead and submit without any fuss or bother. There's no need for kneeling and grovelling and eating out of dog food bowls. Just make him and his goals your top priority... for real.

The problem with words, from my perspective as one of those vanilla guys you're talking about, is that you never quite know what they mean. In the back of my head would always be, "... is she doing this because she doesn't trust the relationship?" or some other weirdness like that. There's a story the earliest part of our dynamic and skipping to the relevant part, I'd come to conclude that I wasn't able to be her master. Her response to that was to go back into the bedroom, grab the leash, come back out and again and kneel in front of couch (and me). Then she clipped the leash to her collar and took the handle end and put it in my palm. She said, "Sure you can. See? It's easy."

How could I argue with that? That was obviously a dramatic moment and there was kneeling involved. But in a more general sense if Carol feels the dynamic is shaky for some reason she simply gets more submissive. Rather than trying to fix it on my end she fixes it on her end then lets the whole "dynamic" part of it fix the rest.

PS: If your'e anything like Carol there is no "why" it's OK. That's why you can't express it. Carol's signature says, "She prefers to defer". That's the sum total of her "why" right there. It just feels right for her to be supporting a good leader rather than be that leader herself. There is no reason for her preference anymore than I could explain why french vanilla is my favorite ice cream. It just is.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Hisgoodgirl88)

Post #: 8

RE: Help explaining my needs as a submissive - 1/14/2013 8:47:08 AM

littlewonder

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That's why I suggested reading The Surrendered Wife. It's not a bdsm book but simply about making your husband your priority without needing to be told, without having to nag or complain. After awhile, he starts to see what you are doing and amazingly enough, he takes you as a priority as well.

But after reading the rest of the thread and the op's responses, it seems she's seeking more kinky sex than anything else and on that point, I really have no advice. He either likes to do that or he doesn't. I don't think you can make him like it or want to do it.

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 9

RE: Help explaining my needs as a submissive - 1/14/2013 10:10:38 AM

Hisgoodgirl88

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Joined: 1/13/2013
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I am indeed not simply seeking kinky sex, but thank you, I will take your reading reccomendation:). While I'm new to this site, I've been a submissive (not just in the bedroom) for as long as I can remember. It's just what feels right to me.

And I do belive you've hit the nail on the head, JeffBC. There is really no why for me to give him, its just who I am and I suppose I have to show him that. I tried explaining, but he is looking for a reason I simply don't have. I think getting to that point of self-acceptance is just somewhere he has yet to get to, but you're right, perhaps if I submit with less hesitance as to his reaction, he might react in turn with less hesitation.

Thanks everyone for your advice, such a friendly board! :P

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 10

RE: Help explaining my needs as a submissive - 1/14/2013 3:32:11 PM

JeffBC

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Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
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Well, since I appear to be on the right track I'll elaborate a bit. As you describe him, I appear to be a lot like your boyfriend. I was "alpha" (for lack of a better word -- generally dominant in my life outside my relationships) but had never considered an unequal power arrangement in my marriage. So when that did come up, I had a lot of predictable sorts of feelings about it. Here's the recap of several questions and answers that I had over time.

Carol should not have to obey me.
That's correct. And she doesn't HAVE to. She wants to.

OK then, but I love her with or without obeying. She shouldn't feel like she needs to obey in order for me to love her.
Again, she doesn't. She wants to.

It's somehow "wrong" for me to be the boss in the marriage.
Really? Why? I've led lots of people over lots of years and generally I thought of that as a positive experience for them. Why should my leadership at home be negative?

Carol should be able to lead herself.
A submissive personality is not a "defective dominant". If I claim to love her, I need to see her for who SHE is, not as a broken reflection of who I am. Besides, she CAN lead herself. That's just not what works best for her.

She shouldn't have to give so much to please the man she loves.
Again, not only does she not HAVE to, but since when did pleasing the person you claim to love become an unworthy goal? I myself will go to pretty great lengths to please Carol.

All of this stuff took years for me to settle into. Over time I led more and more. She submitted more and more. Good things happened as a result of all that. The cycle continues. If your BF is vanilla, then my advice is ditch all the BDSM stuff because it comes with a lot of baggage. Carol is not the "poor oppressed slave girl". She's a competent and capable adult who, in her own words, "prefers to defer." Likewise, I "prefer to lead". Given a couple with those two preferences isn't it sort of obvious how the team ought to be structured? You don't need any BDSM-isms and you don't need the baggage. All you need is a desire to please each other, behave as a team, and recognize your partner for who they truly are. If he doesn't like you kneeling then don't kneel. If he doesn't like you wearing a collar then don't wear a collar. If his idea of "dominance" is, like mine, on the softer side then yield gracefully and sans brattiness. In point of fact, as Carol so clearly demonstrated to me, YOU are the one who controls whether you submit or not. He has no vote in the matter at all unless he wants to end the relationship entirely. Witness this little fragment from a moment when I was trying to release Carol.

Her: Master, how may I serve you today?
Me: Well mine, for starters you can stop calling me master and stop trying to serve me.
Her: <thinks a moment> Good morning honey. What do you want to do today?
Me: <face palm>

See what I mean? You can't make someone not submit. Heck, it's even pointless to give that command since if you're in the mode of giving commands then I guess you're in the leadership slot, eh? The only thing that sounds like a potential problem to me in your story is this bit here:

but I do need that constant pressing feeling of being owned and subjugated in order to relax and be calm.
Generally when I hear stuff like that I cringe because what it really means is, "I have a fantasy that I want you to make real." It has NOTHING to do with submission. Submission would be following HIS lead and being 'owned' or not as HE sees fit. I have to tell you that if Carol desired to be "subjugated" she'd be needing new husband. That's one of those BDSM-isms with baggage that I just don't need or want. I'm happy to step up and take charge as a leadership slot. I'm not particularly interested in subjugating anyone -- at least not anyone I love. In my opinion, your feeling of being "owned" ought to derive from how well your meeting HIS needs not the other way around.

Carol, in the above story, has no particular need to be owned or subjugated. Her entire objective is simply "to make the guy she loves as happy as she can manage." But as long as I preferred owning her then she refused to stop submitting. I could have gotten her to stop submitting (or at least a good simulation of that) simply by saying "I don't want to own you any more". That wasn't the actual case though.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Hisgoodgirl88)

Post #: 11

RE: Help explaining my needs as a submissive - 1/14/2013 7:22:16 PM

spankmesmartie

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Dump him honestly.

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 12

RE: Help explaining my needs as a submissive - 1/14/2013 8:02:49 PM

kalikshama

Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
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OP,

I thought you did a great job expressing yourself so suggest you email it to him as a conversation starter. I had a sticky situation with someone recently and started by saying:

"I’ve been tossing this around in my head..."

And closed with:

"This might be better discussed over the phone, but I wanted to lay the groundwork in an email so you had a chance to think about it."

And we had a conversation that went really well :)

Good luck!

KK

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(in reply to Hisgoodgirl88)

Post #: 13

RE: Help explaining my needs as a submissive - 1/14/2013 8:58:56 PM

JeffBC

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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: spankmesmartie
Dump him honestly.

This? Out of all the possible words of wisdom you might have chosen for your very first post here on collarme, this is it?

All I can say is I am very, very glad I don't view relationships in this way.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to spankmesmartie)

Post #: 14

RE: Help explaining my needs as a submissive - 1/14/2013 9:24:08 PM

spankmesmartie

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And I was obviously joking, contrasting my post with yours above me. Sorry you missed that.

I am very very glad I am not an idiot.

(in reply to spankmesmartie)

Post #: 15

RE: Help explaining my needs as a submissive - 1/14/2013 11:06:29 PM

AthenaSurrenders

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quote:

ORIGINAL: spankmesmartie

And I was obviously joking, contrasting my post with yours above me. Sorry you missed that.

I am very very glad I am not an idiot.

Not that obvious I'm afraid. I didn't see the joke either, because people around here often DO give advice like that. And since you are totally new, none of us know you well enough to have a sense of when you are joking yet. So less 'Jeff is an idiot for not getting the joke' and more 'wow I misread my audience!'

But since you immediately followed it up with throwing around insults, I'm guessing you've only come here for a fight. It should be clear from his posts in this thread alone that Jeff has a lot of experience and knowledge to share, and puts a lot of thought into how to express it. To imply he's an idiot reflects badly on you. He's also a long established poster, and you're new - you might turn out to be the best thing since sliced bread, but as a general rule walking into a new place and throwing insults at existing and respected members will just result in them closing ranks against you before you get chance to prove yourself.

OP- Sorry for the minor derail of your thread.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to spankmesmartie)

Post #: 16

RE: Help explaining my needs as a submissive - 1/14/2013 11:18:50 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
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I'm gonna guess young, right outta school, string of bad luck with men.....

and yeah, I didn't see the joke either. I was going to respond just as Jeff did but I couldn't be bothered to waste my time. Yeah, I'm wasting my time now but I need a break from actual work related stuff online.

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

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Post #: 17

RE: Help explaining my needs as a submissive - 1/15/2013 2:01:04 AM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

I'm going to stick with my analysis. It's a 3 year long relationship in which everything seems to be going just fine. They both, apparently, want to work to please each other and grow and adapt together as a couple. By her description, lifestyle D/s is a natural fit for both of them. It's just going slower than the OP wants. All in all, things seem fine to me.

My issue is that I've found myself lacking the ability to express *why* it is ok and that it's something I need
There is no answer to this and there needn't be any answer. The OP is who she is and thrives on what she thrives on. Just as I had to do with Carol, her boyfriend is going to need to decide whether he loves HER or his [more dominant] image of her. And while he's at it, he should probably give some thought as to why her desire to dedicate herself to her partner is bad because honestly, poets have been writing about that sort of thing for a long, long time now. "I would do anything for my loved one" is not exactly a new concept. Some of us just take it more seriously than others. But it's not really off the beaten path. Personally, I'd love to hear a clear description of why, exactly, that is a bad thing. It's worked out pretty well for Carol & I.

Hisgoodgirl88, if it helps you any, I assume you're hoping that this relationship goes the distance. Well, when I ran into this it was 10 years into a pretty nice marriage. I had a LOT to lose. My constant thought was, "If this is really going to last the rest of my life then I have lots of time to go slow and do the job right. What I can't afford is rotten bricks in the foundation." My advice is be patient. Allow him to find his footing. Show him my questions and answers. And just patiently and happily submit. As he sees your actual happiness in front of him reality will refute whatever demons his imagination is conjuring.

Also, I'd advise you to be grateful for those demons. Really, when you think about it, do you really want someone who would just casually take control of another person to actually have control over you? The questions I asked myself were good questions. They were the kind of questions I'd think any person with any sort of honor and compassion might ask before ... you know ... enslaving a human being. YOU know what you want because you live in your own head. But he can't know that. Give him time and plenty of evidence to figure it out.

One more thing since I seem to be on a roll. While I'd love to be one of those dominants who never questions himself and never finds himself shaken it just isn't true. So I get into my "less dominant"... or at least... "less confident" moments. What Carol does at those times is to be sure to submit extra-happily to whatever.... independent of whether she likes the command or not. It is her quite eloquently saying, "I want to be yours". It's very effective in overcoming whatever mental demons I'm fighting at the moment. In the end, nobody can argue that she belongs to herself first and foremost which means that she is hers to give if she chooses. She makes her choice quite clearly when I need it.

I'm hoping any of this is applicable to you two. These, at least, are the sorts of things that work with this "vanilla dom".

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Hisgoodgirl88)

Post #: 18

RE: Help explaining my needs as a submissive - 1/15/2013 3:42:07 AM

AthenaSurrenders

Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
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I'd like to second Jeff's suggestion of taking it slow.

When we started out, we jumped in headlong. We had a long distance relationship (different countries) and from the day he moved up here, we went into full on M/s. We had spent aaaages talking about it on the phone and skype, so we were ready! Yeh right.

Long story short, after many tears of frustration, we stopped and started again, slowly. Much more successful this time. Luckily we had a solid relationship underneath this that still would have lasted and been satisfying to both of us, even if we never got D/s working right. It sounds like you have that too. So take your time, you're gonna be just fine.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 19

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