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RE: Being a slave and a parent - 1/15/2013 3:35:29 AM

AthenaSurrenders

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Joined: 3/15/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Yes, children come first, but so do you, so does your man who you are with and trust with your life. If you can't you're with the wrong man. For me, all three are of equal priority. If any of those three are not well, then no one is. There's a time and a place for each one of equal importance even if you have a baby.

This can't be said enough.

When I'm caring for my baby, I'm also making my husband/Master's world better by keeping the little person he loves happy and healthy.
When I'm looking after my husband and our relationship, I'm also caring for the baby by giving her a stable home and good role models.
When I take care of myself, I'm taking care of both of them by ensuring I don't burn out and thus can continue to provide.

They all affect each other. In a family it should be impossible to say who is the priority over the others. To me, M/s is a huge commitment on the same level as becoming a family. If the adults involved have brains there should be no conflict. Frustration at the reduction in your alone time? Sure. But there should be no need for 'is this possible?'

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 21

RE: Being a slave and a parent - 1/15/2013 11:10:59 AM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
Yes, children come first, but so do you, so does your man who you are with and trust with your life. If you can't you're with the wrong man. For me, all three are of equal priority. If any of those three are not well, then no one is. There's a time and a place for each one of equal importance even if you have a baby.

This can't be said enough.

I'll second that.

But honestly, I somehow doubt the OP was worrying about time management questions. But really, the obvious question in my mind is that if you don't trust the guy with your child then why do you trust him with yourself? For me, if I took on a slave with child, both the slave and the child would go right into the "my responsibility" bucket -- just as Carol is. It astonishes me that any anyone -- mother or not -- would give 3 seconds consideration to any "master" for whom that was not true.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 22

RE: Being a slave and a parent - 1/16/2013 4:22:21 PM

TheLilSquaw

Posts: 2340
Joined: 10/24/2012
From: Middle River, MD
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rawkyslave76

Is it possible to be a parent and a slave.

Yes, It is possible.
I myself have done it.
I was a parent who entered into a M/s relationship.

< Message edited by TheLilSquaw -- 1/16/2013 4:23:53 PM >

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(in reply to rawkyslave76)

Post #: 23

RE: Being a slave and a parent - 1/16/2013 6:37:28 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
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quote:

It astonishes me that any anyone -- mother or not -- would give 3 seconds consideration to any "master" for whom that was not true.

Yup. It's one of the reasons among many of why I stayed single for so many years.

When I met Master I was extremely nervous about how he would react around my daughter. I really loved him but knew if they hated each other, if they could not get along, if it was just incompatible among the both of them, then I most likely would have to end the relationship. I didn't want the tension of having to possibly choose between the two, of having to separate emotions between the two, end arguments, etc....

So when he finally met her, I'll tell ya, it was a HUGE relief. They got along wonderfully well and they still do and I feel he's a great role model for her and my rock when she does something that causes stress in me.

If you can't trust your partner with your child as much as you trust him with you, why are you trusting him at all????

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 24

RE: Being a slave and a parent - 1/16/2013 6:40:40 PM

OsideGirl

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Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
It astonishes me that any anyone -- mother or not -- would give 3 seconds consideration to any "master" for whom that was not true.

It's sad, but over the years, I seen a number of women actually get into relationships with guys that don't get it. One ended up having her 15 year daughter raped by her so called "Master" because he thought the daughter should be part of the package.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 25

RE: Being a slave and a parent - 1/16/2013 9:31:27 PM

tidbit5021

Posts: 49
Joined: 11/26/2012
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OsideGirl,

How horrifying! I hope he is in prison.

Since my divorce, I've been taking it very slow and I am choosing to keep my "adult" life completely separate from my "parent" life. This way I can make sure that when I'm ready to introduce a man- regardless of our relationship dynamic-that he has passed all the "good man" requirements, such as Athena mentioned.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 26

RE: Being a slave and a parent - 1/17/2013 9:57:30 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

I only was willing to meet men who were as devoted to their kids as I am to mine. If he didn't know the kid's best and worst subjects in school, never attended a sports meet or parent-teacher conference, I had no time for them.

_____________________________

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Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to tidbit5021)

Post #: 27

RE: Being a slave and a parent - 3/17/2013 5:26:39 PM

AubsGirl

Posts: 5
Joined: 3/16/2013
From: oklahoma
Status: offline

My "Aubrik" and I are in a relationship both in the vanilla and the BDSM scene. That being said, I have a three year old son who is my entire world. In the past year I nearly lost him to Embryonal Rhabdomyosarcoma, a rare form of cancer, and yet still find the time to have fun with my Master as he and I both require whether that be through pleasure or punishment. Though I haven't been a sub to anyone else but him I have found more satisfaction in our relationship than in either of my two previous marriages or any other relationship I have had in the past 6 years.

Bottom line, you have to find a MAN/ WOMAN that is worth his/her salt in a world where most of us still act like children with the exception of the rare few and those diamonds in the rough are worth their weight in gold.
Part of being with a woman who has a child or wants a child is being able to get along in day to day life with that child. My son is not Aubrik's child, but he treats him as though he is. You have to learn to walk the fine line of being a parent and also embracing who you are vanilla or not. In the end when you do have to explain things to your child when they are older, as I will have to do with my son one day, just make sure that the child knows that what you and your Master are doing is not abusive and is not the only way to live life, because what is right for you may not be what is right for your child. As a parent the way you know you have succeeded in raising your child is when you find out they can live on their own and make sound choices... Bring up your child with good values that are applicable in both lifestyles and make sure that you have found a partner in your Master that is willing to help you in that endeavor. As a wise man once told me, Subs really have all the power defined simply in what their limits are and aren't, and being a parent helps define those limits because it is truly what you do differently than the other subs he had to choose from that made you stand out to that one special person.

If that doesn't help think of it this way, its better to find out now then find out years from now and have wasted both of your time.
I hope this helps,
AG

< Message edited by AubsGirl -- 3/17/2013 5:32:09 PM >

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 28

RE: Being a slave and a parent - 3/17/2013 7:17:52 PM

UllrsIshtar

Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rawkyslave76

Is it possible to be a parent and a slave.

I'd say no, you can't be.

At the most, a slave can be a caregiver. They may act much in the same capacity as a parent would, in some or most instances, but they don't have the authority a parent has.
Their relationship to any child is really more akin to that of a nanny, hired by the slave's owner to take care of the child, than that of an actual parent.

As far as the BDSM application of this goes, I wouldn't be too concerned about it though; very few people engaging in BDSM seem to actually practice slavery in anything but name.

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to rawkyslave76)

Post #: 29

RE: Being a slave and a parent - 3/17/2013 10:33:34 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawkyslave76

Is it possible to be a parent and a slave.

I'd say no, you can't be.

At the most, a slave can be a caregiver. They may act much in the same capacity as a parent would, in some or most instances, but they don't have the authority a parent has.
Their relationship to any child is really more akin to that of a nanny, hired by the slave's owner to take care of the child, than that of an actual parent.

As far as the BDSM application of this goes, I wouldn't be too concerned about it though; very few people engaging in BDSM seem to actually practice slavery in anything but name.

This, beyond all else, should indicate to you the difficulties you are having "parenting" your husband's children. You really aren't able to think like a parent.

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)

Post #: 30

RE: Being a slave and a parent - 3/18/2013 12:12:20 AM

UllrsIshtar

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Joined: 7/28/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

This, beyond all else, should indicate to you the difficulties you are having "parenting" your husband's children. You really aren't able to think like a parent.

I'm not their parent. I never will be their parent.
I have no difficulties with the girl, nobody has.
And the difficulties I have with the boy, everybody has with him.

But you're beautifully illustrating my point:

I'm not a parent to my husband's kids, because I have no authority over them beyond what he decides to grace me with. I'm a caregiver to his kids, much in the same capacity as a nanny is, but I'm not their parent.
If him and I disagree on where his kids should go to school, guess who wins by default?
If we disagree on what they should eat, wear, do, how they should act, should be punished... in fact, if we should disagree on ANYTHING regarding the kids, he wins, by default... BECAUSE he's their parent... and I am not.

For a slave (number 2 definition) the same thing applies. If the slave and their owner disagree, the owner wins, by default, because the owner, not the slave, has the authority to make the decisions.

Now, if we're talking about a voluntary slave, or one internally enslaved, instead of legal slavery, it becomes very possible that if the owner makes a decision regarding the kids that the slave disagrees with, the slave will reject the influence of the owner and refuse to follow his directions. This is especially the case if the slave's owner isn't the kids' legal guardian.
But if that where to happen, the slave immediately stops being a slave (number 2 definition) because they are no longer "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence", and thus the label "slave" no longer applies.

As long as a person is an actual slave, they have no more authority over kids than a nanny does. Though many people -women especially- will reject internal and voluntary enslavement the very second somebody tries to exercises authority over their kids.

The fact that most people will reject slavery in order to be a parent doesn't mean that slaves can be parents though...

< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 3/18/2013 12:26:33 AM >

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 31

RE: Being a slave and a parent - 3/18/2013 2:53:14 AM

UllrsIshtar

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Joined: 7/28/2012
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I want to add, to make sure that my position on this is crystal clear:

I'm not saying that people in BDSM relationships who call themselves slaves cannot be parents.
They can be, in fact, I bet they're great parents in a lot of cases, precisely because of some of the nurturing tendencies that seem to go along with the type of person that seems to call themselves a slave.

It's just that I don't think they're actually "slaves" according to the actual definition of what the word "slave" means, any more than I consider somebody engaging in puppy play to be a "dog" according to the actual definition of that word.
Acting as if you are something doesn't make you that thing.

Now, you may feel that I'm nitpicking semantics here, so I'll give an example that illustrates how crucial this distinction is:

- In a relationship where an owner would order a person calling themselves a slave, but who is NOT under his abject influence, to put up the slave's kids for adoption, the slave's reaction would most likely be "HELL NO!" It's also very likely that the relationship would end at this point, and even if it continued, very likely the "slave" would now no longer be as receptive to the owner's orders
- In a relationship where the slave is actually legally owned, or internally enslaved to the point where they ARE under the abject influence of the owner, the slave would give up the kids for adoption if so ordered, because they have no other choice. That's what it means to be a slave... to be so abjectly under the influence of an entity outside yourself (legally or mentally) that you no longer have choice/freedom to make your own decisions.
- In the third case, the slave may be mentally enslaved and under abject control of the owner, up until the point they ordered something as extreme as putting the kids up for adoption. But that extreme of an order would drive things to far, breaking the mental bond, and thus the internal enslavement, rendering the slave again a parent but no longer a slave.

Slaves aren't parents, because they don't actually have any say whatsoever about issues concerning parenting, beyond what their owner has granted them. They are, in effect, a hired help to whom the owner has contracted out the care of the kids. However, any authority over the kids the owner outsourced to the slave is an illusion, because at any time the owner can revoke the slave's authority privileges and make the slave have no say at all about anything that is to happen to the kids. If the owner cannot revoke the slave's privileges to act as if they have authority over the kids, the owner doesn't actually own the slave, and the slave isn't an actual slave, aside from in name only.

So I don't believe that simple by choosing to call yourself a slave (or your partner choosing to call you such) you can't be a parent. And I have no problem whatsoever with people calling themselves whatever the hell they'd like, so long as everybody understands that calling yourself something isn't the same as being something.

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)

Post #: 32

RE: Being a slave and a parent - 3/18/2013 8:12:34 AM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

Now of course, there is no such thing as "real" slavery in western culture, so your points are quite moot.

Reasonably, when someone is a parent, the child's needs usurp everyone else's. This seems to be the biggest problem you have, as you have openly stated that you do "not have the time" to follow a kid around all day. That is what a parent's job is.

I can likely guarantee that every "real" parent (and unlike slavery, that does exist) would tell you that:

a) Their child comes first in all things. By the way, if you aren't willing to put your child's needs first, you shouldn't have a child.

b) Those same parents who also identify as "slaves" (and since it isn't legal and it only as "real" as the parties involved allow) will tell you that just like they haven't chose someone who would permanently cause harm, they chose a partner who understands how the needs of a child are paramount.

Realistically, based on your "traditional" definition, you have also just insulted every person who identifies as "slave" on this site, because none of them meet that definition. Sure, there may be a few who think that their "master" could kill them, sell them or bequeath them without consent, but the reality is that they can't. Further, the "slaves" on these sites chose their masters, which certainly doesn't meet your definition of a "real" slave either.

quote:

Slaves aren't parents, because they don't actually have any say whatsoever about issues concerning parenting, beyond what their owner has granted them. They are, in effect, a hired help to whom the owner has contracted out the care of the kids. However, any authority over the kids the owner outsourced to the slave is an illusion, because at any time the owner can revoke the slave's authority privileges and make the slave have no say at all about anything that is to happen to the kids. If the owner cannot revoke the slave's privileges to act as if they have authority over the kids, the owner doesn't actually own the slave, and the slave isn't an actual slave, aside from in name only.

So I don't believe that simple by choosing to call yourself a slave (or your partner choosing to call you such) you can't be a parent. And I have no problem whatsoever with people calling themselves whatever the hell they'd like, so long as everybody understands that calling yourself something isn't the same as being something.

See? Now based on the above opinion, I think you should consider the same when believing you could be a positive influence in any young person's life. You have no understanding of what being a "real" parent is. And yes, many, many "step" parents do grasp that concept.

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)

Post #: 33

RE: Being a slave and a parent - 3/18/2013 8:47:12 AM

freedomdwarf1

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
I'm not their parent. I never will be their parent.

I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree with Ishtar on this one.

We are on our second marriage.
She has 2 kids as do I.
And whilst I am not the biological 'parent' of her 2 kids, they live with us and to all intent and purposes, they are also my kids too!
The same goes for my 2 kids with her - she is not their biological mother but they are still 'her' kids as much as mine.
We don't differentiate between any of them - they are our kids.
The word "step" isn't part of the vocabulary when it comes to any of them.
They all call us mum and dad and they are all our kids - regardless of where their genes came from.
They all get treated equally.
We don't have that awful "you're not my mum/dad..." problem here.
They all see each other as brothers/sisters - not as "step" anything; that doesn't exist in our family.

With respect to Ishtar's comments in her post - we have equal authority over all of them for everything.
We have made sure that doctors, schools, colleges etc, are all notified that either of us can act on their behalf should anything parental be required.
She doesn't defer to me when it comes to my kids and likewise I don't defer to her for her kids.
They all belong to both of us in equal quantity and quality.

In my book, it's those that bring up the kids that are the parents, not necessarily those that made them.

So in that sense, neither of us are just 'caregivers' to the 'step' kids - we are both parents to all of them.
To think of 'step' kids as anything different to your own is extremely obtuse IMHO.
And, FWIW, kids do pick on these things very quickly.
To think of kids in separate boxes is a recipe to disaster in the long run.

Just my

< Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 3/18/2013 8:55:31 AM >

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)

Post #: 34

RE: Being a slave and a parent - 3/18/2013 9:08:18 AM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
Realistically, based on your "traditional" definition

I'm actually sort of curious about this tradition. So I'm assuming then that "traditional slaves" did not procreate or if they did then the slave owners were their parents? That would seem to fly in the face of all the actual history I'm aware of. I'm pretty sure the slave owners expected the slaves to raise up the new slaves... eg: raise their kids to follow in their parents footsteps. I gotta admit that if I were a "traditional master" I sure as crap wouldn't want to be saddled with being the parent of every slave on my plantation/fiefdom/whatever.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 35

RE: Being a slave and a parent - 3/18/2013 4:48:25 PM

SacredDepravity

Posts: 270
Joined: 8/6/2012
Status: offline

I am a slave and a parent. I have been successful at both (not really engaged in the slave part at the moment, though). While there are certainly certain challenges, I find that there are also some unexpected helps that came with all this. It is not that I am advertising my choices to my children, but I have a certain openess and approachability about me that they have never felt like they have to shy away from asking me about relationship and sexual things. I have a teen now that isn't going to his buddies in the locker room for advice on girls. I have a younger one that feels okay with asking about various changes in his body. I attribute some of that to being a freaking awesome parent, but can't help but believe that my own background through all this helps me respond with less shock and disgust or in canned and unhelpful manners.

I have to keep toys hidden well. I keep myself carefully covered when I have marks. I have many a handy cover story for stepping out for munches, playtimes, meeting new people, etc. I am not "out" to my kids To each their own, but there is too much risk socially and legally to place my children in the position of being "out" to them. I don't want social services or even the police on my door whether "warranted" or not. I don't want my children stigmatized by peers, their parents, and others because one of their parents is a "freak". Others can tolerate and manage all this better than I can, so instead I protect by keeping things to myself. Further, I don't really want to know what my parents are up to in their bedroom and free time. I doubt mine do either.

Like with anything in life, the key is balance. It is also an important risk/reward analysis with regard to participating, being "out" or not, and the like. The same discussion could be had about being in this and having a high profile job. Lots of people do it successfully in their own way all the time, but that is something that has to be given serious consideration and decision have to be made about what will and will not work for any person's given situation. Only the person (and I do mean the individual as each person have their own very specific situation to consider) can make final calls on these matters. Any partner (even a spouse) needs to be on the same page about certain things. That means, then, that the second major key is compatibility. Work it out as suits you from there.

SD

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 36

RE: Being a slave and a parent - 3/18/2013 6:08:58 PM

kalikshama

Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
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quote:

You have no understanding of what being a "real" parent is.

No, it's that her definition of slave doesn't have parental escape clauses.

2. One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence

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(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 37

RE: Being a slave and a parent - 3/18/2013 7:47:47 PM

NeverTheTop

Posts: 3
Joined: 3/18/2013
Status: offline

It is very possible. My Dom/Husband and I have three kids. We worked everything out during my first pregnancy, you have to talk about how you want to raise your children. It will take awhile to get used to the changes, but you can do it. He will have a harder time with it than you will cause he won't have complete control of the situation. Every situation is different just take them time to talk it out set up your rules and ask each other what he expects from you and then you let him know what you expect from him.

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 38

RE: Being a slave and a parent - 3/18/2013 7:50:55 PM

njlauren

Posts: 1577
Joined: 10/1/2011
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When you become a parent, or even become part of a household with a child, in effect the child has to be the dominant, in the sense that its needs have to be considered first, that the first rule with kids around is that they not be harmed. That doesn't mean you can't have an M/s or D/s, just that they have to be considered. This has been discussed in other threads, debated, death threats (well, okay, not that) but it is real. I realize people have different ideas what this means, but for example, in an M/s when it comes to matters with the children I would never enter into a D/s without excluding decisions about the kids from the D/s. In everything else, I could agree the M's decisions would be final, but with children, it has to be a shared thing,consensus (I am talking about where the child is both the M and the d/s's),because I don't think any one parent can make all the decisions correctly about everything (this is how I view vanilla relationships with kids, too)..it is just too important to abrogate that responsibility. I am sure others do do that, but I am talking myself and where I am coming from with that one. It has to boil down to what is best for the child, and I firmly believe that has to be respected as a bound of the D/s. I also think how the D/s is expressed is important, that there are ways so the kids don't see something that is jarring or might affect their own relationships later, as others said, having the S naked with a buttplug or having the s kneel when the kids are around in some sort of submissive position and telling them they are a bad slave isn't a great idea:).

(in reply to kalikshama)

Post #: 39

RE: Being a slave and a parent - 3/18/2013 7:51:54 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
Realistically, based on your "traditional" definition

I'm actually sort of curious about this tradition. So I'm assuming then that "traditional slaves" did not procreate or if they did then the slave owners were their parents? That would seem to fly in the face of all the actual history I'm aware of. I'm pretty sure the slave owners expected the slaves to raise up the new slaves... eg: raise their kids to follow in their parents footsteps. I gotta admit that if I were a "traditional master" I sure as crap wouldn't want to be saddled with being the parent of every slave on my plantation/fiefdom/whatever.

Well, you would have to ask Ishtar that, now wouldn't you? She is the one who indicates the two are mutually exclusive.

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 40

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