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RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 1/16/2013 7:31:44 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		In a different thread I said that if we could say that 11 was the magic number why couldn't it be 6 or 2 then NY passes this.
Goes to prove you shouldn't joke about left wingers they may think it is a good idea.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 1/16/2013 7:33:17 PM >

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 1/17/2013 1:35:25 PM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe

NY seals 1st state gun laws since Newtown massacre

Cuomo is going beyond making the manufacture and sale illegal. You have to dump the one(s) you currently own. I couldn't find any reference to this story on CNN. This is usually the kind of thing they have front and center. Glad I don't live in New York. Enjoyed a visit to NYC about six years ago. Always wanted to return for another visit but not now. Can't see spending my leisure dollars in their economy.


Thats positive. I am sure the city will be better off without you in it.

(in reply to LizDeluxe)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 1/17/2013 4:13:39 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe

NY seals 1st state gun laws since Newtown massacre

Cuomo is going beyond making the manufacture and sale illegal. You have to dump the one(s) you currently own. I couldn't find any reference to this story on CNN. This is usually the kind of thing they have front and center. Glad I don't live in New York. Enjoyed a visit to NYC about six years ago. Always wanted to return for another visit but not now. Can't see spending my leisure dollars in their economy.

Somehow the great state of New York will carry on.



_____________________________

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Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 1/29/2013 8:36:35 AM   
LizDeluxe


Posts: 687
Joined: 10/2/2011
Status: offline 		Registration always leads to confiscation. There has never been an exception. Never.

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 1/29/2013 9:01:23 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		I LOVE NEW YORK!

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 1/29/2013 11:16:39 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline 		It will be interesting to see if this has any effect on their crime statistics.

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 1/29/2013 12:58:41 PM   
DaNewAgeViking


Posts: 1009
Joined: 4/29/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Why in hell would the NRA be pushing to have silencers legalized?....I meant WTF!?!!


Why...noise pollution, of course. Got to be environmentally friendly, ya know.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 1/29/2013 1:17:54 PM   
muhly22222


Posts: 463
Joined: 3/25/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
I see that, nevertheless, they were bought legally, and if I am in possession of one at some later point they are illegal?   I see that as ex-post facto, which the fed can't do, I don't know about a state.
I think it would come to an 'among the several' issue. I don't like it, for several reasons.


Interesting thought. I wonder if there is the ability for a State to pass ex post facto laws.


They couldn't, but this isn't an ex post facto situation. It would be ex post facto if they had passed a law today criminalizing the possession of firearms since 2011 and into the future. Since the law doesn't do that, and instead makes any provision criminalizing possession a violation only after the law is passed, the ex post facto clause of the U.S. Constitution doesn't apply.

There are two provisions of the federal constitution that could apply. Obviously, the Second Amendment is in play. There is also an argument that some of the restrictions violate the right to not have property taken without due process, depending on the exact enforcement procedures.

There could be other provisions in New York's state constitution, too, but I'm not familiar with that, and won't comment on it.

And to BamaD's comment about taxes: the ex post facto clause does not apply to non-criminal measures, such as taxes or civil laws. If the government wants to pass a law that changes the rules for contracts, for instance, it's perfectly entitled to do so (unless the voters don't like it, then it can be changed, in theory). The same goes for taxes. If Congress wants to increase a tax and collect that tax increase 5 years back, they can do that.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 1/29/2013 1:34:35 PM   
imdoingitagain


Posts: 77
Joined: 4/7/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Why in hell would the NRA be pushing to have silencers legalized?....I meant WTF!?!!


Why...noise pollution, of course. Got to be environmentally friendly, ya know.


Or, perhaps it's because there isn't actually such a thing as a "silencer"? The only firearms that can actually be "silenced" are the ones in movies. In real life, putting a suppressor on a weapon is not going to make someone able to sneak around killing people like James Bond.

(in reply to DaNewAgeViking)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 1/29/2013 5:04:11 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		Yep. The provision that a legally obtained item kept on private property by a private individual should be confiscated and criminally penalized *but only for some people*... Would require a whole lotta 'splainin' to be done (under the 4th and 14th) and I don't see anyone named Lucy there.


quote:

ORIGINAL: muhly22222


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
I see that, nevertheless, they were bought legally, and if I am in possession of one at some later point they are illegal?   I see that as ex-post facto, which the fed can't do, I don't know about a state.
I think it would come to an 'among the several' issue. I don't like it, for several reasons.


Interesting thought. I wonder if there is the ability for a State to pass ex post facto laws.


They couldn't, but this isn't an ex post facto situation. It would be ex post facto if they had passed a law today criminalizing the possession of firearms since 2011 and into the future. Since the law doesn't do that, and instead makes any provision criminalizing possession a violation only after the law is passed, the ex post facto clause of the U.S. Constitution doesn't apply.

There are two provisions of the federal constitution that could apply. Obviously, the Second Amendment is in play. There is also an argument that some of the restrictions violate the right to not have property taken without due process, depending on the exact enforcement procedures.

There could be other provisions in New York's state constitution, too, but I'm not familiar with that, and won't comment on it.

And to BamaD's comment about taxes: the ex post facto clause does not apply to non-criminal measures, such as taxes or civil laws. If the government wants to pass a law that changes the rules for contracts, for instance, it's perfectly entitled to do so (unless the voters don't like it, then it can be changed, in theory). The same goes for taxes. If Congress wants to increase a tax and collect that tax increase 5 years back, they can do that.



_____________________________

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" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to muhly22222)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 1/29/2013 5:45:51 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		Ever read Lovell's history of the OSS?
He relates that they came up with a silencer that was about as close to silent as is possible... Inside of a quiet room, not enough of a sound to draw attention from about 7 feet away. IIRC they were all slagged after the war.


quote:

ORIGINAL: imdoingitagain


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Why in hell would the NRA be pushing to have silencers legalized?....I meant WTF!?!!


Why...noise pollution, of course. Got to be environmentally friendly, ya know.


Or, perhaps it's because there isn't actually such a thing as a "silencer"? The only firearms that can actually be "silenced" are the ones in movies. In real life, putting a suppressor on a weapon is not going to make someone able to sneak around killing people like James Bond.



_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to imdoingitagain)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 1/30/2013 12:07:56 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Yep. The provision that a legally obtained item kept on private property by a private individual should be confiscated and criminally penalized *but only for some people*... Would require a whole lotta 'splainin' to be done (under the 4th and 14th) and I don't see anyone named Lucy there.





Been away for a week, but now Im back!!!

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Dont Hate Love

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 1/30/2013 12:16:43 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

I LOVE NEW YORK!



Uh too crowded, cold and too many changes in topographical elevation.

_____________________________

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You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 1/30/2013 12:16:51 AM   
imdoingitagain


Posts: 77
Joined: 4/7/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Ever read Lovell's history of the OSS?
He relates that they came up with a silencer that was about as close to silent as is possible... Inside of a quiet room, not enough of a sound to draw attention from about 7 feet away. IIRC they were all slagged after the war.



I'll have to look into it but by what you said, they don't exist anymore.
PS: I hate you for making me have to look up another internet acronym. (IIRC)

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 1/30/2013 6:00:16 AM   
switchdavid69


Posts: 53
Joined: 11/7/2012
Status: offline 		New York should adopt the same strict gun control laws that Chicago has. They seem to be working so well there.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 1/30/2013 10:13:51 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Hell we have conceal and carry in St Louis with some of the most liberal gun laws in the nation and St. Louis as a gun murder rate 20 times that of New York and St Louis only has 300,000 people.

So much for more guns means less crime and murder

Butch

_____________________________

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 1/30/2013 11:36:12 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Hell we have conceal and carry in St Louis with some of the most liberal gun laws in the nation and St. Louis as a gun murder rate 20 times that of New York and St Louis only has 300,000 people.

So much for more guns means less crime and murder

Butch



Guess we can all go home now.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 1/30/2013 11:46:28 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		We can face facts anyway.

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 1/30/2013 12:03:25 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Dont be silly Butch. facts are irrelevant to the "right" of americans to be law abiding citizens, until their crazy switches get flipped.
We all know countless lives are lost by murderous insane car drivers, that a knife in the hands of a nutter will kill 22 people before being shot, that baseball bats kill horrific numbers at one sitting and that only good guys with guns never go nuts.
Facts? pah
who needs em

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 1/30/2013 9:39:55 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		The fact is that St Louis has closer to 3 million people in one solid area. The invisible line drawn by the old city limits is meaningless except as a milestone in white flight.

And the fact is that the claim that St Louis is among those locations with the most liberal (as in permissive) concealed carry laws (also known as unrestricted, or non-permit), is a fabrication.

< Message edited by Powergamz1 -- 1/30/2013 9:41:14 PM >

_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 60
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