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RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 2/2/2013 5:41:54 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
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quote:

If the Government repealed the 14th and reinstated slavery you would have to agree with it? Come on you are much smarter than that.


Yes, I would have to agree with it... that doesnt mean I have to like it. That also means I would work within the confines of the law to get it changed once again.

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Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 2/3/2013 11:44:49 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

If the Government repealed the 14th and reinstated slavery you would have to agree with it? Come on you are much smarter than that.


Yes, I would have to agree with it... that doesnt mean I have to like it. That also means I would work within the confines of the law to get it changed once again.

If you agreed with it why would you want to change it, clearly you are useing agree instead of obey.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 2/6/2013 3:30:11 AM   
imdoingitagain


Posts: 77
Joined: 4/7/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
As it occured to you, which I seriously doubt, that a possible reason for the laws not working is that there a loopholes, which I pointed out. Now if gun control laws don't work, please explain Japan. (This I got hear)


One cannot apply Japanese standards, being a very different mindset due to characteristically Japanese culture, to outside of it. To do so is severe error.




No matter what you think..gun control laws in Japan work....as to mind set...we are a paranoid, well some of us...

Funny you should say that, since I am actually in said country right now...
However, something you fail to consider (Big surprise here) is that the entire country was disarmed for very different reasons.
And, you can't just say "No matter what you think I am right because I say I am right." You absolutely suck at any form of true dialogue. Most of your arguments make no sense, the rest are either "it's so because I say so" and/or the most recent propaganda from whatever your favorite blog that agrees with your stance has to say about it.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 2/6/2013 3:31:54 AM   
imdoingitagain


Posts: 77
Joined: 4/7/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: imdoingitagain


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

So if a drug smuggler gets caught with a stash in his SUV, he should keep it? If someone sets up a meth lab in their home (gawd, I wouldnt want it after that smell) the government should just let them keep it?

Yes, actually. Victimless "crimes" that have no business being illegal in the "Land of the Free."


Victimless?

You and I have a different definition for that word, obviously.

Who is the "victim" of drug use?
The use of any substance like that is completely decided by the user. So, no, that is not a "victim" in my eyes. Unless, you don't feel people are responsible for their own actions?

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 2/6/2013 7:35:33 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		I have never held that there is such a thing as a "victimless" crime.

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Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 2/6/2013 7:44:51 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		I think it needs clarifying, before he gets laughed out of the fora.
Because drug use is certainly nowhere near a victimless crime
a dumb assumption, unless the semantics/context are put forward in an understandable manner.
a victim of drug use, would be anyone who is affected negatively by the user of the drug use ...a result of addiction to said drug, anyone harmed by the manufacture of the said drug, or anyone who is hurt/mentally or physcially as a result of being drugged without consent, families, co workers, friends, LEOs, who have to deal with said drug user.
Maybe the poster was being facetious or being singularly myopic. And doesnt understand addiction, or OD, theft, self destruction doesnt happen in a vaccuum in 99% of cases etc

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Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 2/6/2013 9:56:09 AM   
imdoingitagain


Posts: 77
Joined: 4/7/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I think it needs clarifying, before he gets laughed out of the fora.
Because drug use is certainly nowhere near a victimless crime
a dumb assumption, unless the semantics/context are put forward in an understandable manner.
a victim of drug use, would be anyone who is affected negatively by the user of the drug use ...a result of addiction to said drug, anyone harmed by the manufacture of the said drug, or anyone who is hurt/mentally or physcially as a result of being drugged without consent, families, co workers, friends, LEOs, who have to deal with said drug user.
Maybe the poster was being facetious or being singularly myopic. And doesnt understand addiction, or OD, theft, self destruction doesnt happen in a vaccuum in 99% of cases etc

You're speaking of other crimes that could be committed that might be associated with the drugs, which there are already laws for.
The only "victim" in the actual use of a drug is the user them self who is nothing more than a "victim" of their own choices.
The singular perfect example of this is marijuana. Without stretching yourself very thin, you cannot give me a valid reason as to why some dude sitting in his house, smoking marijuana should be a criminal. Especially in a place dubbed "The Land of the Free."


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

I have never held that there is such a thing as a "victimless" crime.

There are plenty of things that there are laws against where there is really no one being victimized. Something as simple as seat belt laws being an example.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 2/6/2013 10:02:57 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		marijuana, is the exception to the rule, scuse me, but you picked the softest least "harmless"drug out there, which is very intellectually easy to dismiss, in place of something such as meth, coke, ice, opium, etc etc etc, most of us know that marijuana is less harmful than alcohol coffee and prescription drugs, please dont be so dismissive of the harm done by harder drugs.
People are hurt by the effects of people using/on/manufacture drugs all the time...therefore, NOT victimless.BY any standard.

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\(•_•)
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(in reply to imdoingitagain)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 2/6/2013 10:13:16 AM   
imdoingitagain


Posts: 77
Joined: 4/7/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

marijuana, is the exception to the rule, scuse me, but you picked the softest least "harmless"drug out there, which is very intellectually easy to dismiss, in place of something such as meth, coke, ice, opium, etc etc etc, most of us know that marijuana is less harmful than alcohol coffee and prescription drugs, please dont be so dismissive of the harm done by harder drugs.
People are hurt by the effects of people using/on/manufacture drugs all the time...therefore, NOT victimless.BY any standard.

It's an extreme example used simple to make a point. But, honestly, why should it be any different than a guy snorting coke in the privacy of his own home, not harming anyone else? Again, like I said, you are speaking of other crimes which there are already laws for.
Honestly, by that reasoning, alcohol should be illegal, too since people are "hurt by the effects" as well.

I'm sure that I'm not explaining this as fully as I could but I think most of the people here are intelligent enough to understand what I am saying.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 2/6/2013 10:35:13 AM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		Crimes against public order, or 'victimless crimes' have a standard definition, using the concept of direct harm vs. indirect.

Semantics and sophistry aside of course.

*Violation of law in which there is no other person (aside from the offender) victimized, such as drug-taking or illegal gambling.*
http://sociology.socialsciencedictionary.com/Sociology-Dictionary/VICTIMLESS_CRIME



quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I think it needs clarifying, before he gets laughed out of the fora.
Because drug use is certainly nowhere near a victimless crime
a dumb assumption, unless the semantics/context are put forward in an understandable manner.
a victim of drug use, would be anyone who is affected negatively by the user of the drug use ...a result of addiction to said drug, anyone harmed by the manufacture of the said drug, or anyone who is hurt/mentally or physcially as a result of being drugged without consent, families, co workers, friends, LEOs, who have to deal with said drug user.
Maybe the poster was being facetious or being singularly myopic. And doesnt understand addiction, or OD, theft, self destruction doesnt happen in a vaccuum in 99% of cases etc



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Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 2/6/2013 10:38:41 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: imdoingitagain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I think it needs clarifying, before he gets laughed out of the fora.
Because drug use is certainly nowhere near a victimless crime
a dumb assumption, unless the semantics/context are put forward in an understandable manner.
a victim of drug use, would be anyone who is affected negatively by the user of the drug use ...a result of addiction to said drug, anyone harmed by the manufacture of the said drug, or anyone who is hurt/mentally or physcially as a result of being drugged without consent, families, co workers, friends, LEOs, who have to deal with said drug user.
Maybe the poster was being facetious or being singularly myopic. And doesnt understand addiction, or OD, theft, self destruction doesnt happen in a vaccuum in 99% of cases etc

You're speaking of other crimes that could be committed that might be associated with the drugs, which there are already laws for.
The only "victim" in the actual use of a drug is the user them self who is nothing more than a "victim" of their own choices.
The singular perfect example of this is marijuana. Without stretching yourself very thin, you cannot give me a valid reason as to why some dude sitting in his house, smoking marijuana should be a criminal. Especially in a place dubbed "The Land of the Free."


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

I have never held that there is such a thing as a "victimless" crime.

There are plenty of things that there are laws against where there is really no one being victimized. Something as simple as seat belt laws being an example.


In California..the seat belt law is a "fix it" ticket $20.00, it is a Vehicle code violation which make neither a felony or misdemeanor.

(in reply to imdoingitagain)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 2/6/2013 10:45:46 AM   
imdoingitagain


Posts: 77
Joined: 4/7/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

In California..the seat belt law is a "fix it" ticket $20.00, it is a Vehicle code violation which make neither a felony or misdemeanor.

Yet, still against the law.
I do realize I am in the minority in my stance against "for your own good" laws. But, that does not mean I will change my opinion.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 2/6/2013 10:48:45 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: imdoingitagain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

In California..the seat belt law is a "fix it" ticket $20.00, it is a Vehicle code violation which make neither a felony or misdemeanor.

Yet, still against the law.
I do realize I am in the minority in my stance against "for your own good" laws. But, that does not mean I will change my opinion.


No it is the Vehicle Code....your thinking of the Penal Code. Oh you poor thing you....

(in reply to imdoingitagain)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 2/6/2013 10:56:11 AM   
imdoingitagain


Posts: 77
Joined: 4/7/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: imdoingitagain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

In California..the seat belt law is a "fix it" ticket $20.00, it is a Vehicle code violation which make neither a felony or misdemeanor.

Yet, still against the law.
I do realize I am in the minority in my stance against "for your own good" laws. But, that does not mean I will change my opinion.


No it is the Vehicle Code....your thinking of the Penal Code. Oh you poor thing you....

Are you intentionally using semantics to miss my point or are you just that dense?

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 2/6/2013 11:25:02 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: imdoingitagain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: imdoingitagain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

In California..the seat belt law is a "fix it" ticket $20.00, it is a Vehicle code violation which make neither a felony or misdemeanor.

Yet, still against the law.
I do realize I am in the minority in my stance against "for your own good" laws. But, that does not mean I will change my opinion.


No it is the Vehicle Code....your thinking of the Penal Code. Oh you poor thing you....

Are you intentionally using semantics to miss my point or are you just that dense?


Nope the California Vehicle Code and Penal Code are two seperate things...a violation of the Vehicle the worst is a small fine, points against you, no jail or prison, does not go on a persons criminal record, does not count as an arrest. You appear before a Magistrate not a judge, the Magistrate can be a lawyer, or even a Parole Officer. Where as a violaton of the Penal, an arrest record, criminal record, judge, jury, jail, prison, etc. All laws are created in the best interests of people, at least that is the theory. So you are supporting anarchy?

(in reply to imdoingitagain)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 2/6/2013 11:41:53 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: imdoingitagain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: imdoingitagain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

In California..the seat belt law is a "fix it" ticket $20.00, it is a Vehicle code violation which make neither a felony or misdemeanor.

Yet, still against the law.
I do realize I am in the minority in my stance against "for your own good" laws. But, that does not mean I will change my opinion.


No it is the Vehicle Code....your thinking of the Penal Code. Oh you poor thing you....

Are you intentionally using semantics to miss my point or are you just that dense?


Nope the California Vehicle Code and Penal Code are two seperate things...a violation of the Vehicle the worst is a small fine, points against you, no jail or prison, does not go on a persons criminal record, does not count as an arrest. You appear before a Magistrate not a judge, the Magistrate can be a lawyer, or even a Parole Officer. Where as a violaton of the Penal, an arrest record, criminal record, judge, jury, jail, prison, etc. All laws are created in the best interests of people, at least that is the theory. So you are supporting anarchy?

I do hope you realize that the whole world isn't california. In other states things are done quite differently.

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Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 2/6/2013 12:23:38 PM   
papassion


Posts: 487
Joined: 3/28/2012
Status: offline
On this forced buyback. who determins what the guns are worth? There is a big difference in price depending on condition, rarity, etc. One thing for sure. When you make something illegal like drugs, or anything, you make it more valuable to individuals interested in buying them.

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Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 2/6/2013 1:08:54 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: imdoingitagain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
As it occured to you, which I seriously doubt, that a possible reason for the laws not working is that there a loopholes, which I pointed out. Now if gun control laws don't work, please explain Japan. (This I got hear)


One cannot apply Japanese standards, being a very different mindset due to characteristically Japanese culture, to outside of it. To do so is severe error.




No matter what you think..gun control laws in Japan work....as to mind set...we are a paranoid, well some of us...

Funny you should say that, since I am actually in said country right now...
However, something you fail to consider (Big surprise here) is that the entire country was disarmed for very different reasons.
And, you can't just say "No matter what you think I am right because I say I am right." You absolutely suck at any form of true dialogue. Most of your arguments make no sense, the rest are either "it's so because I say so" and/or the most recent propaganda from whatever your favorite blog that agrees with your stance has to say about it.

The current Constitutional Monarchy of Japan was form in 1947, it is soveign and makes it own laws, it could have made more liberal gun laws but by it's own choice it did otherwise. Japan does have privately owned weapons but the restriction are strictly enforced. Japan also has a weapons manufacture Howa, Miroku Corp. and Sumitomo Machinery Co.(Howa and Miroku make both military and personal weapons)

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/a-land-without-guns-how-japan-has-virtually-eliminated-shooting-deaths/260189/

Actually you the one who fails to get anything...but megalomanics are in their own little world. Further please show where I have said "No matter what you think I am right because I say I am right" and "it's so because I say so"

< Message edited by Nosathro -- 2/6/2013 1:11:22 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 2/6/2013 1:22:05 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		The main difference is sociological do the Japanese also have baseball bat control because our murder rate with bats exceeds the Japanese murder rate. If they don't it is apples and cement blocks (oranges are too close a comparison).

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Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Disarmament: NY leads the way. - 2/6/2013 1:40:03 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

The main difference is sociological do the Japanese also have baseball bat control because our murder rate with bats exceeds the Japanese murder rate. If they don't it is apples and cement blocks (oranges are too close a comparison).


You right something has to done about the gun culture in the US....I think medications that treat paranoia will do nicely. Then again frontal lobotomies always had good results.

< Message edited by Nosathro -- 2/6/2013 2:02:35 PM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 140
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