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How to better a subs self imagery? - 6/19/2006 1:50:48 PM

PookBaccus

Posts: 38
Joined: 3/22/2006
Status: offline

I have recently taken a submissive. When we agreed to the relationship she was (due to poor training and poorer past experiences) disconnected from experiencing emotions. This also manifested itself physically in the form of lowered tactile sensitivity.
I set up a scenario which included re introducing herself to herself, I have provided a safe environment which she can include trust into the construct of D&s, and long story short, made it so she could reclaim her verginity. Which she has. As far as all this goes she is healed, has the use of both halves of her brain, and is capable of experiencing happiness for the first time in a couple decades. One of the things that made this possible was for I to not include sex in our relationship. (as had every man in her life to this point).
Next step: The person she sees in the mirror has never been the way she sees herself in her mind. Without the use of sex which I am used to using to show someone how wonderful they are and how fantastic they can be which lends itself to bringing the reality of their wonderfulness into accordance with their self perceptions. What other ways can be utilized to help a sub see herself in the wonderful and realistic light?

Post #: 1

RE: How to better a subs self imagery? - 6/19/2006 1:58:15 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

What things in life would she like to accomplish?

Figure that out, then figure out the steps to get there.

Then, make her walk the steps. One by one...together.

Time and experience, with you pointing out to her along the way what she's doing for herself is pretty much the best and most solid way.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to PookBaccus)

Post #: 2

RE: How to better a subs self imagery? - 6/19/2006 2:07:16 PM

Tine11

Posts: 423
Joined: 11/5/2005
Status: offline

Sorry or intruding but as a slave i sometimes have the same issue. The question i would ask is. Can i help her see herself as she thinks she should. I happen to know i would love to be skiny or at least skinnyier then i am. What would serously help me is a dom/master who was willing to help me work on my weight. WHile i i don't know how she pictures how she be, but having you behind her helping to achives at least a few aspects fo those that could be done safely, i would think would be more helpful then anything.

Tine

_____________________________

The world is like a shinning diamond.
The way it gitters if you polish it right.
If the light should turn and leave you blinded.
Take the dream and give it one more try.

Soulburn, Masterplan

(in reply to PookBaccus)

Post #: 3

RE: How to better a subs self imagery? - 6/19/2006 2:27:22 PM

jadedshadow

Posts: 23
Joined: 2/14/2006
From: MS
Status: offline

If I may throw my two cents in here.. I've had similar experiences with having to "rebuild" my self image, and three tools that have helped me are setting realistic goals and taking steps to meet them (I think Luck Albatross mentioned this already) and the other two are having a journal and affirmations. My journal allows me to get out all the negative junk in my head and then I can sit back and look at it realisticly, and try to replace the negative voices in my mind with more positive ones.. Another thing is using positive affirmations. Saying things to myself like "I am beautiful" and "There's more to me than just my body" on a regular basis - once you hear these things enough, you believe them, and when you hear it from your own voice, it sticks.

< Message edited by jadedshadow -- 6/19/2006 2:31:47 PM >

(in reply to PookBaccus)

Post #: 4

RE: How to better a subs self imagery? - 6/19/2006 2:33:04 PM

PookBaccus

Posts: 38
Joined: 3/22/2006
Status: offline

Nice pic tine! (as always you too LuckyAlbatross.)

Ironically, tine your pic is how she describes what she sees herself to be. Elfish more etherial then the reflection in the mirror would ascribe. Tru LA as always wonderful advice, and it is a pleasure to know you in this limited medium.
What her disconnect is at is the image in the mirror. Maybe it's her self 'visionry' is unrealistic which lends herself to disapointment and unfamiliarity when faced with the reflection of reality. <very cute I assure you> but when she thinks of herself the picture in her vision is a whole lot like tine's bio-shot.

(in reply to PookBaccus)

Post #: 5

RE: How to better a subs self imagery? - 6/19/2006 5:36:30 PM

CrappyDom

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

If your prose was a little more clear it would be a bit easier to help you. Sounds like a woman who feels like a piece of meat and doesn't value herself. Is that a good picture?

I have in the past worked with women to build self esteem and done things like taking them to a Lancome counter where I had picked out a girl who was nice and not snobby some time before and had already slipped a tip to be extra nice. Then have them all dolled up and then whisk them off to have some glamour shots done.

Since she is actually pretty and because she feels like her value is in her "sex" then I would not take that tack. I would instead work on her brain. Find some other things she can build self esteem on (and in truth, anything is better than doing it on looks alone). Push her at a hobby, have her work on becoming really talented. Another is to have her volunteer her time as a tutor of some sort.

The trick here is to figure out what sort of authority figure she needs to feel validated and then work on getting her that. I think it is this dynamic that explains the whole daddy thing where it isn't wrapped around also playing little girl/molestation stuff and is just sort of a nurturing role.

Of course, and I am sure you know this, the key to doing all this is in her past. Examining her relationship to her mother and father but also her early sexual years and later relationships can all provide clues as to the patterns you are trying to unlock.

That said, NOTHING, beats a well matched and competent therapist for dealing with these issues, combine that with a loving and creative dominant and things can really be healed.

(in reply to PookBaccus)

Post #: 6

RE: How to better a subs self imagery? - 6/19/2006 8:13:26 PM

Tine11

Posts: 423
Joined: 11/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PookBaccus

Nice pic tine! (as always you too LuckyAlbatross.)

Ironically, tine your pic is how she describes what she sees herself to be. Elfish more etherial then the reflection in the mirror would ascribe. Tru LA as always wonderful advice, and it is a pleasure to know you in this limited medium.
What her disconnect is at is the image in the mirror. Maybe it's her self 'visionry' is unrealistic which lends herself to disapointment and unfamiliarity when faced with the reflection of reality. <very cute I assure you> but when she thinks of herself the picture in her vision is a whole lot like tine's bio-shot.

I do realize that it can lead to disapoinment, but as was said earlier, set realistic goals. If she sees herself getting losing weight and gaining mucsle then in that way she serving you making herself more apealing to eye. You could also join in, and make it a goal. I won't claim to know what sort of shape you are in, but by having it so taht you are by her side every step of the way. IT woudl be like chearing her on. Maybe set up somethign to achieve, liek a race to finish adn train for that way when she has trained and finished it, then she woudl have accomplished something. I woudl also agree with having her do journals, and telling herself she is beautiful and if you did the same thing then i have a hard time belive that it could all go bad.

Tine

_____________________________

The world is like a shinning diamond.
The way it gitters if you polish it right.
If the light should turn and leave you blinded.
Take the dream and give it one more try.

Soulburn, Masterplan

(in reply to PookBaccus)

Post #: 7

RE: How to better a subs self imagery? - 6/20/2006 7:40:26 AM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PookBaccus
disconnected from experiencing emotions.

This line right here is the indicator. I would suggest finding a therapist.

Beyond that, you can't change her self imagery, only she can.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to PookBaccus)

Post #: 8

RE: How to better a subs self imagery? - 6/22/2006 1:51:42 PM

mox

Posts: 7
Joined: 5/10/2006
Status: offline

It will be a long process depending on from how far she has to come, my experience is that giving her goals that she is able to reach without much effort at first and giving positive feedback does wonders. When she has a basis you can raise the bar and eventually have her work hard for it.

Keep in mind you might lose her when you build her up.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 9

RE: How to better a subs self imagery? - 6/22/2006 3:03:39 PM

peterK50

Posts: 433
Joined: 1/12/2006
Status: offline

submission/slavery is not for the faint of heart.

(in reply to mox)

Post #: 10

RE: How to better a subs self imagery? - 6/22/2006 3:27:31 PM

PookBaccus

Posts: 38
Joined: 3/22/2006
Status: offline

I'd like to thank everyone for their input on this thread. It appears there is no better place to aquire the opinions of slaves and submissives the on the 'ask a Master list. I do appreciate your insights VERY much.
She has done counceling . Years of counceling.
It did keep her from the precipous of having her personality split into unique and distinct entities. That was years ago.
But the voices have continued unabaited until I did what I do.
For MY sub it's out of the hands of conventional therapy (wish she'd co-operate with them but now she won't). Years of opinion damned up again'st the bridge.
It's on ME to be the one to help now. We've come a long way. longlonglonglong way. Less then 2 months in MY dominion and for the first time in over 2 decade's she can see the face and eyes of the .... scourge. His voice and the voices of her selves has stopped. When she presented herself to ME she was mentally a startrek Vulcan. Now she feels emotions and sensations and makes realizations by using both halves of her brain. Penmanship is different and emediately after I awoke the shutdown half of her brain her ass wiggled like a woman for the first time in her life as she walked. A myriad of effects have occured. Well thanks for letting ME blog.
I find every bit of info I'm getting on this thread useful.
Please keep it flowing.
P.s. I owe word~fame. I credit John Warren and his book " The Loving Dominent " for showing ME the mode to heal with the art of Domination. I don't think HE had a chapter assigned to healing, but in the schematic of Methodology-Modality-Intent, from his book I glimmered the modality.
Thanks Mr. Warren. Put a notch on your quirt, you helped bring at least one girl back from the brink.
Enough from ME for now, everyone. "Your turn!"

(in reply to mox)

Post #: 11

RE: How to better a subs self imagery? - 5/25/2007 6:36:33 AM

sweetsyn

Posts: 10
Joined: 1/20/2007
Status: offline

I would like to say Thank You to PookBaccus for restoring this one's hope that there is still is a chance to realize my deepest dreams. I may be lost but with the proper Dominant I can be found/healed. Consoling and painkillers do not work. I have always beleived the ache could only go away with full submission to a Dominant. I started to wonder if the damage and scarring I already incurred would prevent me from ever getting that. Your words have restored my hope. Thank You so very much. I guess until I find Him I could work on preparing the things i do seem to be able to control.

(in reply to PookBaccus)

Post #: 12

RE: How to better a subs self imagery? - 5/25/2007 6:50:33 AM

imthatacheyouhav

Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline

Hmmmm...this kind of thing had never occured to me. As i read this post and, the subsequent replies, it dawned on me. All of my relationships with men have been sexual in nature to some degree. Which would explain my deep depression after being told by my husband i am no longer physically attractive to him.I suspose also this would explain my "high" with my Master, since He tells me how desireable i am. I seem to think my self worth is based on what i can do to please a man. Perhaps i should address this with myself....LOL. Sorry this is long winded..this post was just a real eye opener..and rather unexpectedly so.

_____________________________

*if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything*
**collared July 22 2007 by LordKen**

(in reply to sweetsyn)

Post #: 13

RE: How to better a subs self imagery? - 5/25/2007 7:08:59 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

How to better a subs self imagery?

You don't. You can't better a Dom's self imagery either. Your self imagery isn't improved by being a Dom, or a sub. Self imagery requires accepting of self regardless which side of the flogger you prefer.

Step one is knowing. Getting to know yourself is difficult, time consuming, and often painful. Once that is part is over its still an issue of time passing for confidence to be nurtured. Most of the times this process is done alone. All a Dom can do or be is supportive. The Dom's voice must be confident. That is really all they can give; the bridge between the time of self awareness and comfort in their own skin. The Dom can support a sub's self image by being his/her confidence until enough time passes and the sub is proud of the image that reflects from the mirror.

quote:

ORIGINAL: peterK50
submission/slavery is not for the faint of heart.

Very true, and it relates to this topic very well. A person, independent of gender, can proceed through the self come out with the determination they were Dominant and have no problems integrating into society. Come out as a submissive, and announce it publicly or publicly exhibit your submission, and you risk being pointed at a called names such as, door-mat. Considering that potential ridicule is it any wonder that along the journey of discovery there are self imagery problems?

In my opinion, it takes strong and confident individual to be submissive.

(in reply to peterK50)

Post #: 14

RE: How to better a subs self imagery? - 5/25/2007 7:25:03 AM

lateralist1

Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline

I agree it is a strength to admit that you are submissive.
It takes more strength for a man though than for a woman.
Just like it takes more strength for a man to admit he is gay than for a woman.
Male pride is probably the single most difficult aspect of men to overcome when trying to form a relationship with them.
They are more centered on the physical than women are for a start.
Is she good enough looking for me not to be embarrassed with her in public is the major question that men ask themselves.
Then does she dress well enough and it goes on and on.
Do I actually like being with her is somewhere at the bottom of a whole list of requirements. Whereas for most women it's at the top of the list. And next comes does he care about me.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 15

RE: How to better a subs self imagery? - 5/25/2007 10:37:32 PM

CitizenCane

Posts: 349
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PookBaccus

I'd like to thank everyone for their input on this thread. It appears there is no better place to aquire the opinions of slaves and submissives the on the 'ask a Master list. I do appreciate your insights VERY much.
She has done counceling . Years of counceling.
It did keep her from the precipous of having her personality split into unique and distinct entities. That was years ago.
But the voices have continued unabaited until I did what I do.
For MY sub it's out of the hands of conventional therapy (wish she'd co-operate with them but now she won't). Years of opinion damned up again'st the bridge.
It's on ME to be the one to help now. We've come a long way. longlonglonglong way. Less then 2 months in MY dominion and for the first time in over 2 decade's she can see the face and eyes of the .... scourge. His voice and the voices of her selves has stopped. When she presented herself to ME she was mentally a startrek Vulcan. Now she feels emotions and sensations and makes realizations by using both halves of her brain. Penmanship is different and emediately after I awoke the shutdown half of her brain her ass wiggled like a woman for the first time in her life as she walked. A myriad of effects have occured. Well thanks for letting ME blog.
I find every bit of info I'm getting on this thread useful.
Please keep it flowing.
P.s. I owe word~fame. I credit John Warren and his book " The Loving Dominent " for showing ME the mode to heal with the art of Domination. I don't think HE had a chapter assigned to healing, but in the schematic of Methodology-Modality-Intent, from his book I glimmered the modality.
Thanks Mr. Warren. Put a notch on your quirt, you helped bring at least one girl back from the brink.
Enough from ME for now, everyone. "Your turn!"

Here and in your original post you describe several things that are almost certainly symptoms of DID/MPD. I give you full credit for the help you've given her, but this is a very complex disorder and nothing you have written indicates that it's fundamental structure is resolved. Oside is correct, a therapist is in order, one familiar with DID. Unfortunately, many therapists have no understanding of this disorder, and their diagnoses and treatments are either useless or harmful. It's not surprising that she does not want further professional help, but I assure you, this is what is needed. I hope that the course you have taken with this woman has established enough trust that you can effectively encourage her to seek appropriate help. You may well find that trying to get her into therapy again, or anything else that gives her stress or makes her feel unsafe, will reactivate the 'voices' in her head. The fact that she can now 'see' her abuser (who may, in fact, be only one of many) is encouraging, but is not a resolution. It may be only the tip of the iceberg. Please help her to get qualified professional help.

(in reply to PookBaccus)

Post #: 16

RE: How to better a subs self imagery? - 5/25/2007 11:52:52 PM

aldompdx

Posts: 538
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline

I agree with CitizenCane. If you really care about the person, unconditionally, then you want to find the best professional care possible. If (BIG if, okay) you really care about getting some kind of payoff in the end, and this is just a manipulative bargain, then you will actually make the problem worse in the long run. Also, integrating a spiritual foundation can be helpful to improving self awareness.

(in reply to CitizenCane)

Post #: 17

RE: How to better a subs self imagery? - 5/26/2007 5:42:24 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Bad self talk is a bitch. While I wouldn't go to pains to do an entire Emil Coue routine, I would spend alotta time toilet training her (by this I mean) spend alotta time catching her doing something right and praising the shit out of her, even if it is only small things and then work her up to real life.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to aldompdx)

Post #: 18

RE: How to better a subs self imagery? - 5/26/2007 5:59:16 AM

ExtremeOwnerIL

Posts: 197
Joined: 10/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

That said, NOTHING, beats a well matched and competent therapist for dealing with these issues, combine that with a loving and creative dominant and things can really be healed.

That simple line is probably the most constructive advice that I have seen in many, many discussions online and in person dealing with self-image issues.

I think too often, we think that we can push the levers on behaviors and characteristics to help someone. Sometimes that's true, but there are dangers and oftentimes, I see advice in many places thrown around like hand grenades. The mind can be a minefield and the therapist and doctor are the best ones equipped to navigate it.

Sometimes the hardest and yet most responsible thing we can do is admit where our skills end and help someone to find the help they need. THAT, to me, is responsible Ownership.

Kindest regards,
EO

_____________________________

Some of my thoughts on Ownership:

http://extremeowner.blogspot.com/

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 19

RE: How to better a subs self imagery? - 5/26/2007 7:47:19 AM

CitizenCane

Posts: 349
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExtremeOwnerIL

quote:

That said, NOTHING, beats a well matched and competent therapist for dealing with these issues, combine that with a loving and creative dominant and things can really be healed.

That simple line is probably the most constructive advice that I have seen in many, many discussions online and in person dealing with self-image issues.

I think too often, we think that we can push the levers on behaviors and characteristics to help someone. Sometimes that's true, but there are dangers and oftentimes, I see advice in many places thrown around like hand grenades. The mind can be a minefield and the therapist and doctor are the best ones equipped to navigate it.

Sometimes the hardest and yet most responsible thing we can do is admit where our skills end and help someone to find the help they need. THAT, to me, is responsible Ownership.

Kindest regards,
EO

I think it's important to realize that 'best equiped to deal with it' is not simply a question of having the appropriate education and experience, and it's certainly not a question of being smarter or knowing your sub better than you do, which are issues that often lurk behind the the reluctance of doms to send their subs to therapy (and the reluctance of some subs to go to therapy, which can be seen as undermining the dom). The fact is that therapists, just by being therapists instead of doms/boyfriends/lovers/friends can be more neutral and objective than those of us involved in an intimate or affective relationship- ESPECIALLY IN THE PERCEPTION OF THE SUB. No matter how objective and self-controlled a dom may be, the sub's perceptions are colored by the nature of the relationship. No matter how well the dom knows the sub, no matter how deep the insight into the sub's issues the dom may have, the sub is going to go through various stages of projection and transference, and when the underlying issues are traumatic abuse-driven issues, this is very poisonous to a relationship. Much better for the therapist to take the brunt of this, after all, they are getting paid for this and have no emotional attachment. For these reasons, even a dom with considerable training, insight and expertise in dealing with trauma should avoid being the primary therapy-giver for his sub. And frankly, anyone with the requisite knowledge and understanding to be an effective therapist should know this.
D/s can be very 'therapeutic' within a certain range of issues and concerns, but it is not a substitute for professional intervention in serious trauma cases, and indeed is often a contributor to the problem, even if, for a time, it appears to bring benefits. The OP is dealing with a case of serious trauma, and needs professional support.

(in reply to ExtremeOwnerIL)

Post #: 20

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