jlf1961
Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
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You really want to stick to the story that Berbers are Arabs?
Try this bit of information on for size. The Berbers originated in Spain, not the Arab countries, and ethnic Berbers are not Arab. There people of Arab Berber ancestry, but they are not considered ethnic Berbers.
quote:
The prehistoric populations of North Africa are related to the wider group of Paleo-Mediterranean peoples. The Afroasiatic phylum probably originated in the mesolithic period, perhaps in the context of the Capsian culture.[19][20] DNA analysis has found commonalities between Berber populations and those of the Sami people of Scandinavia showing a link dating from around 9,000 years ago.[21] By 5000 BC, the populations of North Africa are an amalgamation of Ibero-Maurisian and Capsian stock blended with a more recent intrusion associated with the Neolithic revolution.[22] Out of these populations, the proto-Berber tribes form during the Late Bronze to Early Iron Age.
source
quote:
Within E1b1b1 (E-M35), two haplogroups (E-V68 and E-V257) show similar phylogenetic and geographic structure, pointing to a genetic bridge between southern European and northern African Y chromosomes (...) Both contain a lineage which has been frequently observed in Africa (E-M78 and E-M81, respectively) and a group of undifferentiated chromosomes that are mostly found in southern Europe. An expansion of E-M35 carriers, possibly from the Middle East as proposed by other Authors, and split into two branches separated by the geographic barrier of the Mediterranean Sea, would explain this geographic pattern. However, the absence of E-V68* and E-V257* in the Middle East makes a maritime spread between northern Africa and southern Europe a more plausible hypothesis.
Another point you fail to mention, Haplogroup E1b1b1, which accounts for approximately 18 to 20 per cent of Ashkenazi and 8.6 per cent to 30 per cent of Sephardic Y-chromosomes
source
So in essence, this claim is assuming that Hitler had ancestors from the minority of the two Jewish groups where that haplogroup is found.
That is a far stretch, and "One can from this postulate that Hitler was related to people whom he despised."
Postulate: Suggest or assume the existence, fact, or truth of (something) as a basis for reasoning, discussion, or belief.
Noun
A thing suggested or assumed as true as the basis for reasoning, discussion, or belief.
So the official statement does not make the absolute claim that Hitler was of Jewish ancestry. By the same token, one could postulate that Hitler had ancestry from southern Europe and the Berbers of North Africa.
Now your inference that Hitler's grandmother was seduced by the wealthy Jew she worked for goes back to antisemitic arguments put forth by the Nazis pre WW2.
There is an equal chance that she slept with a non Jew from southern Europe.
Considering that the Haplogroup you are going on about is found in a higher percentage of non Jews in North Africa and Southern Europe puts the odds in favor of this possibility.
If you had actually done a bit more research on the DNA segment you were so adamant proved that Hitler was Jewish, you would have seen the flaws in that argument.
The proximity of a person of a specific race to an ancestor does not prove parentage. It is circumstantial at best. That is like saying that a good percentage of white southern Americans are part African American because a male slave was housed in the plantation house with the owner's daughters.
You have no proof to your claim, and the use of the word "postulate" does not confirm the statement, it only allows for the debate on the possibility.
So rare in western Europe, not rare in Southern Europe.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3017091/?tool=pubmed
Then there is the above article.
quote:
However, the absence of E-V68* and E-V257* in the Middle East (Table S2) makes a maritime spread between northern Africa and southern Europe a more plausible hypothesis.
This from report dated a year after the report postulating Hitler's Jewish ancestry.
The discussion of Hitler's ancestry is not over yet, and there are no definite findings, although the evidence is pointing in a different direction than you want it to.
So I could state with equal credibility that Hitler had some Southern European and North African ancestry.
Now that the DNA evidence has been explained, perhaps you would give it up?
Although I know you wont.
< Message edited by jlf1961 -- 2/6/2013 8:06:51 PM >
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