quote:

ORIGINAL: ScaryKids

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

I could care less what your grandpapa and any rifle toting grunt has to say unless he was the forensic expert that actually did the tests for gas, that actually reviewed the records since we know the testimonies were all fraudulent.

My grandpa graduated with a degree in Chemistry in 1939. He immediately went into the Army after graduation, first as a paratrooper, then aerial/combat photographer, then as a field chemist after he sustained a knee injury. His job was to indentify potentially toxic substances and neutralizing reagents. There was indeed physical, topographical, and chemical evidence, both forensic and existing collected during and after the war, some of it by him personally. He was also granted access to Nazi doctors and other war criminals, pre-Nuremburg, in an attempt to understand methods and procedure for the use of some of the substances that Allied military had been exposed to.

In 1945, he returned home and started working as the head chemist for Ethox Chemicals, LLC, which had a military contract at the time researching and reproducing chemical weapons used during the war in order to develop treatment and preventative methods in future incidents until 1966. (Their military contract, with his name as contact, his security clearances and his military records and some of his submitted documentation are all a matter of public record and should be an easy paper trail to follow if looking in that order. If you run across NASA polymer development research in the same name, then you've got the right guy.)

He retained a good bit of the military documentation of the mass genocide in Europe in his personal files, both what he collected and what the military deemed pertinent to his research. My mother inherited these documents in 2003 and which came to me after she passed in 2008. If you'd like copies, PM me and I'd be glad to send them, or get you started in looking up and applying for official copies since these have been declassified (you can find out how to do this on any genealogy website.)

I have photographs, documents marked classified at the time of their release, personal statements by camp victims, Allied and Nazi soldiers who came in contact with toxic substances or were subjected to them during the war, copies of orders and ordinances, Nazi research papers and their translations, some papers with estimations of bodies and orders for field autopsy for recently deceased, lab research papers... Just a ton of stuff (about 20 file boxes or so), so you can pick and choose which type of evidence you prefer.

Though I do understand if its too much trouble, ignorance is bliss.

Regardless of whether this happened or not, we should all learn from the possibility and the sociological implications of such an event. Sorry to all of you who think my language might be a little homogenized here and might be offended by it. Sorry for the long post all.

Suzy

quote:

ORIGINAL: focalss

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Running around condemning people without bonafide definitions for the words used is a bit delusional, I agree.

Here is a simple definition of the Holocaust. 6 million Jews, 500,000 Gypsies and some other groups were killed based on the sole fact that they were Jewish or Gypsy i.e. racism or what is euphemistically termed "ethnic cleansing." About 11 million others were killed including millions of Poles and not counting the war dead.

I hear statements from people I imagined had some common sense who never heard of the Holocaust and question it. My conclusion is that these people are delusional and can not believe that these crimes actually took place as a State sponsored event or that they are descendents of Germans or other groups who feel they are being unfairly blamed for what their ethnic group did to another ethnic group and have a defensive reaction. That type of denier is purposely ignorant and gives support to overt anti semites. A small part of what I attribute this group of delusionals to is bad education but there are no excuses for it. Once you say something you are responsible for it.

The other type, the bulk of those who deny it, are plainly anti semitic. A part of this group is also in the above purposely ignorant group and uses excuses such as "define" what you mean by "Holocaust," "genocide," free speech gives me the right to question anything or it wasn't "exactly" 6 million to argue that people have the right to say anything and spread lies or any other kind of nonsense by which they think they can cast doubt on it or persuade the simple minded.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tobaccoman

the holocaust ie holohoax never happened. there is a huge amount of historical evidence to prove it was a fraud. it's amazing how people just accept this as fact.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

You really want to stick to the story that Berbers are Arabs?

Try this bit of information on for size. The Berbers originated in Spain, not the Arab countries, and ethnic Berbers are not Arab. There people of Arab Berber ancestry, but they are not considered ethnic Berbers.

However it was not the nazis it was the austrians that and the parrish priest that knew those details not some tin foild nazi conspiracy as you want to paint for us.

quote:

The prehistoric populations of North Africa are related to the wider group of Paleo-Mediterranean peoples. The Afroasiatic phylum probably originated in the mesolithic period, perhaps in the context of the Capsian culture.[19][20] DNA analysis has found commonalities between Berber populations and those of the Sami people of Scandinavia showing a link dating from around 9,000 years ago.[21] By 5000 BC, the populations of North Africa are an amalgamation of Ibero-Maurisian and Capsian stock blended with a more recent intrusion associated with the Neolithic revolution.[22] Out of these populations, the proto-Berber tribes form during the Late Bronze to Early Iron Age.
source

quote:

Within E1b1b1 (E-M35), two haplogroups (E-V68 and E-V257) show similar phylogenetic and geographic structure, pointing to a genetic bridge between southern European and northern African Y chromosomes (...) Both contain a lineage which has been frequently observed in Africa (E-M78 and E-M81, respectively) and a group of undifferentiated chromosomes that are mostly found in southern Europe. An expansion of E-M35 carriers, possibly from the Middle East as proposed by other Authors, and split into two branches separated by the geographic barrier of the Mediterranean Sea, would explain this geographic pattern. However, the absence of E-V68* and E-V257* in the Middle East makes a maritime spread between northern Africa and southern Europe a more plausible hypothesis.

Another point you fail to mention, Haplogroup E1b1b1, which accounts for approximately 18 to 20 per cent of Ashkenazi and 8.6 per cent to 30 per cent of Sephardic Y-chromosomes

source

So in essence, this claim is assuming that Hitler had ancestors from the minority of the two Jewish groups where that haplogroup is found.

That is a far stretch, and "One can from this postulate that Hitler was related to people whom he despised."

Postulate: Suggest or assume the existence, fact, or truth of (something) as a basis for reasoning, discussion, or belief.
Noun
A thing suggested or assumed as true as the basis for reasoning, discussion, or belief.

So the official statement does not make the absolute claim that Hitler was of Jewish ancestry. By the same token, one could postulate that Hitler had ancestry from southern Europe and the Berbers of North Africa.

Now your inference that Hitler's grandmother was seduced by the wealthy Jew she worked for goes back to antisemitic arguments put forth by the Nazis pre WW2.

There is an equal chance that she slept with a non Jew from southern Europe.

Considering that the Haplogroup you are going on about is found in a higher percentage of non Jews in North Africa and Southern Europe puts the odds in favor of this possibility.

If you had actually done a bit more research on the DNA segment you were so adamant proved that Hitler was Jewish, you would have seen the flaws in that argument.

The proximity of a person of a specific race to an ancestor does not prove parentage. It is circumstantial at best. That is like saying that a good percentage of white southern Americans are part African American because a male slave was housed in the plantation house with the owner's daughters.

You have no proof to your claim, and the use of the word "postulate" does not confirm the statement, it only allows for the debate on the possibility.

So rare in western Europe, not rare in Southern Europe.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3017091/?tool=pubmed

Then there is the above article.

quote:

However, the absence of E-V68* and E-V257* in the Middle East (Table S2) makes a maritime spread between northern Africa and southern Europe a more plausible hypothesis.

This from report dated a year after the report postulating Hitler's Jewish ancestry.

The discussion of Hitler's ancestry is not over yet, and there are no definite findings, although the evidence is pointing in a different direction than you want it to.

So I could state with equal credibility that Hitler had some Southern European and North African ancestry.

Now that the DNA evidence has been explained, perhaps you would give it up?

Although I know you wont.

quote:

ORIGINAL: focalss

All people who deny the Holocaust are liars, hope that is simple enough for you to understand Un real one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

You have no interest in the TRUTH at all, and we all know it. Your interest is in being argumentative with anyone and everyone. Nothing anyone says is ever going to be acceptable unless we agree with you.

So there are those of us who actually know the truth and those of us who are simply argumentative because they have no life and this is how they get their jollies. Me? I know the truth.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAsylum

The please, explain what took place.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tobaccoman

the holocaust ie holohoax never happened. there is a huge amount of historical evidence to prove it was a fraud. it's amazing how people just accept this as fact.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tobaccoman

"Holocaust" numbers -

2000 days X 24 hours X 60 minutes X 60 seconds

That is 172,800,000 seconds

Divided by 6,000,000

One Jew, identified, detained, "arrested", transported, killed, and body disposed of every 30 seconds

quote:

ORIGINAL: focalss

All people who deny the Holocaust are liars, hope that is simple enough for you to understand Un real one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tobaccoman

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAsylum

The please, explain what took place.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tobaccoman

the holocaust ie holohoax never happened. there is a huge amount of historical evidence to prove it was a fraud. it's amazing how people just accept this as fact.

Here's a very rough draft of what happened. Hitler came to power. He opposed the jews for what he considered was the continued bankrupting and corruption of his country by jewish banks and jewish owned interest. He wanted the jews out of germany. He developed labor camps to isolate the jews and force them to work off the debt that he considered they were responsible for. Did people die in the camps? Yes. Mainly from typhus, which these so called "gas chambers" and zyklon B were use to decontaminate. Were the conditions in the camp bad? Yes, mainly from allied bombing of routes of transportation into and out of the camps, thus
making any type of deliveries much more difficult.

Ask the question....why waste the time to feed, clothe, shelter, and track people who you want to ultimately exterminate? It makes no sense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tobaccoman

Here's a very rough draft of what happened. Hitler came to power. He opposed the jews for what he considered was the continued bankrupting and corruption of his country by jewish banks and jewish owned interest. He wanted the jews out of germany. He developed labor camps to isolate the jews and force them to work off the debt that he considered they were responsible for. Did people die in the camps? Yes. Mainly from typhus, which these so called "gas chambers" and zyklon B were use to decontaminate. Were the conditions in the camp bad? Yes, mainly from allied bombing of routes of transportation into and out of the camps, thus
making any type of deliveries much more difficult.

Ask the question....why waste the time to feed, clothe, shelter, and track people who you want to ultimately exterminate? It makes no sense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAsylum

The please, explain what took place.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tobaccoman

the holocaust ie holohoax never happened. there is a huge amount of historical evidence to prove it was a fraud. it's amazing how people just accept this as fact.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Lets see, basing Hilter's parentage on circumstantial evidence, but as I stated, proximity does not equate to parentage.

The genetic group you put so much faith in is more apparent in other groups than the two groups listed, lowering the odds of Jewish parentage.

So, since Hitler's grandfather is unknown, please prove the Jewish employer belonged to one of the two Jewish subgroups, and that he was without the possibility of another male being the father.

This will of course require links to verify the sources for your information.

Failing that, you are assuming facts not in evidence. Since you claim to be an attorney, you know that those "facts" will not stand up in a court of law. Nor do they stand up in a court of science.

Again, I can directly link that statement that it had to be the Jew that his grandmother worked for to Nazi antisemitic propaganda, modern antisemitic slurs by white supremacists and neo Nazis.

Your continued claim of it to be substantiated truth is flawed, since it cannot be proven. Thus at best, it is a working hypothesis.

Further research into the group that you are basing this on, gives another more plausible explanation of how it the group turned up in Europe.

Until someone looks back at the research to see if the Hitler family either has or has not the two markers not found in the middle east, the question of Hitler's parentage remains ambiguous at best.

One minor point, the grandfather was unknown to Adolf and his father, therefore, if true, Adolf Hitler had no knowledge of it. So what difference would it have made in his actions? Absolutely none.

So at this point, you have to prove with verifiable evidence that the Jew nana worked for was the grandfather, without the two distinct markers not found in the Jewish groups of that particular gene, and that Hitler had knowledge of this fact.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

come on, you looking for someone who is going to accept koolaid too huh?

In all that text not one word about mass gassing. toxic shit is not mass gassing LOL Nice try to dazzle me with bullshit.

If you have records of tests though I doubt what you say is true, I will refrain from calling bullshit until you fail to post the documentation.

oh and the thread is not jacked Jeff (OP) opened this door wide open on many occasions and has yet to prove that there was either a holocaust or that antisemitism is exclusively a jewish thing.

Oh and I have statements from camp victims that played soccer with the ss men, swam in their olympic pool BOUGHT BEER AT THE CAMP CANTEENA, went to theater, plays, orchestra every sunday and on and on and on, did grandad tell you about that too?

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

What history books are you talking about?

How was 16 miles of filing cabinets full of detailed documents of the Atrocities created in just over four months?

Every history book from High School to college was clear about the treatment of the Jews by Germany, there were even references to the fact the Allies knew about the camps and SS activates and did nothing, considering that would have meant a premature invasion of mainland Europe, that seems like a far stretch to assign guilt to the Americans.

As for Danzig the free city, that was all done AFTER ww2, at the Potsdam conference where it was declared part of Poland. Considering the Russian army occupied the area and Poland, what exactly were the Americans and British supposed to do?

So far you have done everything possible to shift blame for over eleven million Jews, Poles, Russian POWs and citizens, Slavs, Romani, Serbs and the countless political prisoners who were killed.

You have provided no non biased proof of this "truth" and all the proof you have provided either linked to antisemitic sites or holocaust denial sites. Now you wont even do that.

You want undeniable proof, haul your ass over to Germany and personally read every document in those 16 miles of filing cabinets, if you can prove each and every one are faked, you win. If you cant, you lose.

As it stands, all inspections of the documents have proved they are authentic, no forged signatures, nothing that would indicate fakes.