Conservatives spreading lie about mass shooters being 'registered Democrats' (Full Version)

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Fightdirecto -> Conservatives spreading lie about mass shooters being 'registered Democrats' (1/27/2013 11:53:17 AM)

quote:

Based on the assertions of Roger Hedgecock a right-wing radio show host, the idea that the five worst recent mass shootings were committed by registered Democrats is making its way through e-mail chains and social media.

Hedgecock asserts, without providing any evidence or sources, that the Ft. Hood shooter, the Virginia Tech shooter, the Aurora Theater shooter and Adam Lanza of Sandy Hook infamy were all “registered Democrats”.
He acknowledges that Klebold and Harris (the Columbine Colorado shooters) were too young to be registered voters but asserts, again without providing any evidence, that Harris and Klebold’s parents were progressives or liberal Democrats. All of these charges are utterly baseless and perhaps do not even deserve a response. However, given the effectiveness of right-wing lies in saturating social media and duping the incurious (a far too numerous segment of the population), some more detailed debunking is in order…

Let me also state that given that neither major political party condones mass shooter violence in any way, shape or form, and that all these acts are individual acts of violence that are not sanctioned by either elected Democrats or Republicans (at least not mainstream leaders in either party), the very notion that they are acting on behalf of a political party is itself problematic. This is not to say that mass shootings are apolitical acts, but rather it is to say that as political acts they may express an ideology (racism, misogyny, entitlement, psychosis, etc) but they do not in general express alignment with a political party or if they do it is not an association that the Democrats or Republicans would accept as legitimate (neither party wants to claim James Holmes or Adam Lanza as a member in good standing, no matter what Holmes or Lanza feels about them). In any case, we can categorically reject the notion that any of the shooters in question has been shown to be a registered Democrat on a case by case basis.

1. Nidal Hasan (the Ft. Hood shooter) lived in either Virginia (his state of residence prior to being sent to Ft. Hood) or Texas, neither of which has partisan registration. Therefore the claim that he was a "registered Democrat" is false. I do not know if he voted or how he voted, but I do know that unless he was registered in a state in which he did not reside, that the claim that he is a registered Democrat is FALSE.

2. Since Virginia does not have partisan registration there is also no way to tell whether Seung-Hui Cho was a Democrat, but again because there is no partisan registration in the state we can say that the claim that he is a registered Democrat is FALSE.

3. The allegation that James Holmes was registered Democrat was based on a Breitbart blogger Joel B. Pollack, who found voter registration records for a DIFFERENT James Holmes who was about the same age. Alex Jones’ Infowars and other right-wing websites then dutifully repeated the lie without verifying it. It was later determined that the Colorado Theater Shooter James Holmes was NOT registered to vote, as evidenced by this retraction…However, most of right-wing media continued to promote the lie without printing Breitbart sites retraction. The claim that James Holmes was a registered Democrat is FALSE.

4. The claim that Adama Lanza is a registered Democrat has been suggested based not on any evidence that he was registered as one, but on the rather dubious claim that because Connecticut has almost 2 to 1 Democratic registration over Republicans, he was probably a Democrat. (Claim: "Adam Lanza, NewtownConn murderer. Registered Democrats outnumber Republicans by about a 2-1 ratio in Connecticut. The odds are therefore that the Lanza family are (sic) Democrats.") This of course is a bogus argument to begin with, but even if we were to make the claim that a mass shooter’s political affiliation must be the same as the majority of the people in his area, we can debunk this foolish idea by taking this shoddy analysis down to the local level. Yes, Connecticut voted for Barack Obama, BUT THE CITY OF NEWTOWN VOTED FOR MITT ROMNEY. If we look at the results we find that Mitt Romney defeated Barack Obama in Newtown by 7451-6784 votes or 51.7 percent to 47 percent. Republican Senate candidate and Tea Party favorite Linda McMahon carried the city over Democrat Chris Murphy by an even larger margin. Add in the other information we have that Lanza’s mother was a “doomsday prepper” and a home schooler in a Republican-leaning city and we can pretty well dispense with the erroneous assumption that Lanza must have been a Democrat…We can therefore claim that with no evidence to support the claim, the assertion that Lanza was a Democrat is not demonstrated and that in the absence of any evidence it is likely FALSE.

5. Klebold and Harris of course were not old enough to vote and they had no apparent political affiliation. Allegations that they came from families of Democrats or liberal progressives appear to have no sources to substantiate those claims. What little ideology the boys demonstrated owed mostly to an admiration for Timothy McVeigh, not Ted Kennedy. Harris’ father was a retired Air Force pilot and Eric Harris wanted to join the Marine Corps. The boys lived in Littleton, Colorado a relatively conservative and affluent suburb of Denver. The claim that their parents were Democrats is UNSUBSTANTIATED. Any suggestion that the two boys were Democrats is demonstrably FALSE.


The article then cites 15 mass murders or politically motivated murders committed between 1984 and 2012 by White supremacists, Sovereign Citizens, “pro-life” movement members and a former Republican campaign volunteer.

[image]local://upfiles/42188/C5D3E17295A84001BB5B8E30A41E7DDA.jpg[/image]




Moonhead -> RE: Conservatives spreading lie about mass shooters being 'registered Democrats' (1/27/2013 11:56:10 AM)

You know as well as I do: if a mass murderer is a reactionary, then he was a lone nutcase unaffiliated to any organisation.
Any other ideology that a mass murderer might possibly have, on the other hand, is proof of a conspiracy to destroy America that non mass murderers who share that ideology are too pussy to man up and own...




theshytype -> RE: Conservatives spreading lie about mass shooters being 'registered Democrats' (1/27/2013 12:12:42 PM)

How ridiculous those claims are, but don't surprise me in the least.
If I were to theorize the political affiliation of a mass shooter, I would assume they have none. If they are anti-social individuals with little faith in society, I have to doubt they have faith in the political system.
To take it a step further, since the right-wing likes to claim democrats hate guns then why would these so-called democrats use it as their weapon of choice?




DesideriScuri -> RE: Conservatives spreading lie about mass shooters being 'registered Democrats' (1/27/2013 12:22:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
You know as well as I do: if a mass murderer is a reactionary, then he was a lone nutcase unaffiliated to any organisation.
Any other ideology that a mass murderer might possibly have, on the other hand, is proof of a conspiracy to destroy America that non mass murderers who share that ideology are too pussy to man up and own...


^This.




Fightdirecto -> RE: Conservatives spreading lie about mass shooters being 'registered Democrats' (1/27/2013 12:40:45 PM)

An example of the lies being spread is this Forum Thread on Military.com, with my rebuttal (which I feel will be ignored or belittled);
Worst Recent Mass Murders Committed By Progressive Democrats




Fightdirecto -> RE: Conservatives spreading lie about mass shooters being 'registered Democrats' (1/27/2013 12:53:21 PM)

I accidently neglected to include the link in the OP. Here it is:

The Idea That Recent Mass Shooters Are Mostly Registered Democrats Is A Myth




Nosathro -> RE: Conservatives spreading lie about mass shooters being 'registered Democrats' (1/27/2013 4:23:46 PM)

Considering Nehemiah Griego, who shoot his parents and brother and sister, is only 15 years old, I somehow don't think he is a registered anything. As to the other more than likely they did not register to vote, yes it just more progaganda from more than likely the NRA.




BamaD -> RE: Conservatives spreading lie about mass shooters being 'registered Democrats' (1/27/2013 6:59:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Considering Nehemiah Griego, who shoot his parents and brother and sister, is only 15 years old, I somehow don't think he is a registered anything. As to the other more than likely they did not register to vote, yes it just more progaganda from more than likely the NRA.

And every day I see here or in other chat venues the statement that they are all NRA members and Repubicans. Good for the goose good for the gander.




tazzygirl -> RE: Conservatives spreading lie about mass shooters being 'registered Democrats' (1/27/2013 7:08:36 PM)

Loughner was Independent.




BamaD -> RE: Conservatives spreading lie about mass shooters being 'registered Democrats' (1/27/2013 7:15:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Loughner was Independent.

You should note that I was not making any claim as to afilliation I was refering to how thin skinned some people are particularly when they are doing the exact thing they are whining about.




Nosathro -> RE: Conservatives spreading lie about mass shooters being 'registered Democrats' (1/27/2013 10:04:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Considering Nehemiah Griego, who shoot his parents and brother and sister, is only 15 years old, I somehow don't think he is a registered anything. As to the other more than likely they did not register to vote, yes it just more progaganda from more than likely the NRA.

And every day I see here or in other chat venues the statement that they are all NRA members and Repubicans. Good for the goose good for the gander.


Yes and they are also members of the KKK




BamaD -> RE: Conservatives spreading lie about mass shooters being 'registered Democrats' (1/27/2013 11:24:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Considering Nehemiah Griego, who shoot his parents and brother and sister, is only 15 years old, I somehow don't think he is a registered anything. As to the other more than likely they did not register to vote, yes it just more progaganda from more than likely the NRA.

And every day I see here or in other chat venues the statement that they are all NRA members and Repubicans. Good for the goose good for the gander.


Yes and they are also members of the KKK

I ignore them on both sides you should too.




tazzygirl -> RE: Conservatives spreading lie about mass shooters being 'registered Democrats' (1/28/2013 12:07:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Loughner was Independent.

You should note that I was not making any claim as to afilliation I was refering to how thin skinned some people are particularly when they are doing the exact thing they are whining about.


Personally, I find it strange that anyone would care what political affiliation someone has who is obviously that far gone that they have no compulsion about killing innocent people.

Its just another attempt to ignore the bigger problem by spitting on a blazing fire.




BamaD -> RE: Conservatives spreading lie about mass shooters being 'registered Democrats' (1/28/2013 12:13:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Loughner was Independent.

You should note that I was not making any claim as to afilliation I was refering to how thin skinned some people are particularly when they are doing the exact thing they are whining about.


Personally, I find it strange that anyone would care what political affiliation someone has who is obviously that far gone that they have no compulsion about killing innocent people.

Its just another attempt to ignore the bigger problem by spitting on a blazing fire.

I agree I does not matter but I think it is more throwing gasoline on the fire playing the blame game.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Conservatives spreading lie about mass shooters being 'registered Democrats' (1/28/2013 5:35:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Personally, I find it strange that anyone would care what political affiliation someone has who is obviously that far gone that they have no compulsion about killing innocent people.
Its just another attempt to ignore the bigger problem by spitting on a blazing fire.


Agreed. Unless each victim had been identified - by the killer - as belonging to the "other" party, sparing his own party, how could any of this be put together as politically motivated?




DaNewAgeViking -> RE: Conservatives spreading lie about mass shooters being 'registered Democrats' (1/28/2013 8:03:48 AM)

What this is is a classic example of 'The Big Lie', a blatant lie so over the top that it has a certain false validity just from the sound of it. Repeat it loud and often, and people actually start to buy into it, as we see here. This process was created by the Nazis - go figure.
[sm=soapbox.gif]




MrRodgers -> RE: Conservatives spreading lie about mass shooters being 'registered Democrats' (1/28/2013 8:38:01 AM)

...and here I thought all of these murders was because of a crush on a movie actress whom they wish to impress.

...or one of the many necessary troubled loners acting completely on their own.

...or revenge for how the leftist, socialists (wall street ?) have 'taken' our country over.

Repeat this loud and often enough and Americans believe it. It should be obvious to anybody who reads and listens enough...Americans will believe anything their govt. tells them, especially when it comes to some of the more 'necessary' murders.

It just hadn't occured to me these might apply to those dangerous leftist, communist kids.

I am not so sure about anybody else...believing it though.

Yes...the American, right-wing, neo-facists are using Goebbels playbook to the hilt...it works and continues to work. One must just trust in it and that it takes time. The Nazis just worked faster on the street because they could.




Fightdirecto -> RE: Conservatives spreading lie about mass shooters being 'registered Democrats' (1/28/2013 9:07:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Agreed. Unless each victim had been identified - by the killer - as belonging to the "other" party, sparing his own party, how could any of this be put together as politically motivated?

And that is exactly my point.

There are those who are politically motivated to falsely accuse Democrats, Liberals or anyone who isn't a Conservative as a "danger" to society.

When I was serving in Vietnam, our opponents were called "gooks" - because if we were to consider them as sub-human, we would be less likely to feel guilt if we killed them. Both they and we were taught by our superiors that the other side tortured prisoners, to "motivate" us and make us less likely to surrender. (This actually became helpful for me as an interrogator because when I treated them with kindness, they began to realize their leaders had lied to them and they were more likely to voluntarily tell me what I wanted to know.)

So this "All recent mass murderers are registered Democrats" lie is designed to effectively dehumanize any registered Democrat.

Remember this from two years ago? Another example of "Democrats/Liberals are sub-humans so they don't deserve to be treated like REAL humans":

[image]local://upfiles/42188/3E854A74E18244EC82021F938B984FA6.jpg[/image]




Aylee -> RE: Conservatives spreading lie about mass shooters being 'registered Democrats' (1/28/2013 9:10:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Loughner was Independent.

You should note that I was not making any claim as to afilliation I was refering to how thin skinned some people are particularly when they are doing the exact thing they are whining about.


Personally, I find it strange that anyone would care what political affiliation someone has who is obviously that far gone that they have no compulsion about killing innocent people.

Its just another attempt to ignore the bigger problem by spitting on a blazing fire.



This.

People who would do this are a nutter. Do I need another description? Umm. . . no. Nutter will do nicely.




MrRodgers -> RE: Conservatives spreading lie about mass shooters being 'registered Democrats' (1/28/2013 9:13:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Agreed. Unless each victim had been identified - by the killer - as belonging to the "other" party, sparing his own party, how could any of this be put together as politically motivated?

And that is exactly my point.

There are those who are politically motivated to falsely accuse Democrats, Liberals or anyone who isn't a Conservative as a "danger" to society.

When I was serving in Vietnam, our opponents were called "gooks" - because if we were to consider them as sub-human, we would be less likely to feel guilt if we killed them. Both they and we were taught by our superiors that the other side tortured prisoners, to "motivate" us and make us less likely to surrender. (This actually became helpful for me as an interrogator becuae when I treated them with kindness, they began to realize their leaders had lied to them and they were more likely to voluntarily tell me what I wanted to know.)

So this "All recent mass murderers are registered Democrats" lie is designed to effectively dehumanize any registered Democrat.

Remember this from two years ago? Another example of "Democrats/Liberals are sub-humans so they don't deserve to be treated like REAL humans":


Thus it has been almost throughout history. Remember 'nips' (Japanese) and krauts (Germans) too ? They weren't 'human' either...right ?

That's also why the classification and censureship of these wars. They are to be seen as clean and viruous, not the bloody and murderous mess that they really are.




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