Playing with switches (Full Version)

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HarryVanWinkle -> Playing with switches (1/27/2013 10:42:53 PM)

This is mainly directed at dominant women and submissive men, but of course, I welcome the thoughts of everybody who has something (even something snarky) to say.

I find it interesting how many submissive say they wouldn't submit to a switch because they're not able to top and wouldn't be able to fill the needs of her other side, so to speak. What makes you think she would want YOU to take care of that need?

I've also noticed that a lot of dominant women say they are NOT interested in switches because sooner or later the switch will want to dominate them. What makes you believe that?

I am myself somewhat of a switch. I consider myself to be a submissive with some some fondness and talent for topping. I am NOT, by any means a dominant. I have submitted to dominant women, dominant men, switches of both sexes, and sadistic slaves. I have topped submissives and switches of both sexes. I have also co-topped with dominant women.

As a top, I am very much a service top. As somebody who should have frequent flyer miles in subspace, I enjoy taking somebody there and showing them around a bit. But only somebody who WANTS to go there. If a dominant woman has no bottom side, no inclination whatsoever to be topped, I would have no interest whatsoever in topping her. I've also found, the few times I've tried it that I'm uncomfortable with switching roles with people I've played with. If I've topped them before, I not comfortable bottoming to them and vice versa.

I look forward to reading your thoughts on this.



AthenaSurrenders -> RE: Playing with switches (1/28/2013 1:14:21 AM)

I suppose those people believe that a switch would be unhappy unless they are getting both sides of their sexuality catered to. We get a lot of people on the boards very distressed because their dom or sub nature is being ignored in a relationship and they want to find someone else. So it's reasonable that if your partner is a switch and you aren't, you might be worried that they will ultimately leave the relationship because they aren't satisfied.

While there are some switches who could be perfectly happy taking on a dom or sub role forever, I guess a lot of people either don't know that, or worry that their partner will agree to it but later decide they can't be happy with that arrangement. They could have an open/poly situation, but not everyone is wired that way.

I know I couldn't dom to save my life. I could learn to wield a whip, but not to actually take control and I actually find it a turn-off when a partner submits to me sexually. I'm also not wired for poly - I just know I would be jealous and anxious all the time. So if my partner was a switch, I'd have to be very very sure he could live without scratching the sub-itch, otherwise it would be unfair on both of us and better to let him go and find an arrangement that met his needs. I don't want him to miss out, I also don't want our relationship to fall apart down the road.



LittleMsMary -> RE: Playing with switches (1/28/2013 6:10:46 AM)

I think Athena hits it on the head, for a lot of people I think they are concerned that sooner or later a switch will want to change roles and if they want something more than just playtime fun this could cause trouble. I don't have any problem with people who want to switch or people simply into kinky play without any other role/structure involved, but it isn't for me.

Personally, one other issue for me is I find it irritating when somebody has a strongly Dom profile and then emails me and says something to the effect of "well I'm really a switch" or "I'm normally a Dom but that's because I haven't found a woman strong enough to make me submit" etc etc etc...It comes across as disingenuous to me in those cases. I realize that this is more of a human issue of just not being honest or just being a HNG more than it is really a "switch issue" but it is part of the reason I tend to have little interest.



TheLilSquaw -> RE: Playing with switches (1/28/2013 7:31:58 AM)

As a bi-sexual switch.
I hear a variation of this ALL the time.

I've had been told that because I am a switch, that eventually there will be a power struggle.
Which is flat out false.

The reality for ME.
Is although I am a switch, I can NOT switch within the same relationship.


Example:
My primary partner, is the dominant in our relationship.
I can not switch and dominate him then be the submissive in our relationship again.
I can top and bottom within the relationship though.

I very much enjoy both men and women.
However, I have never been able to submit to a woman.
Although I can bottom to one.
So if I was in a relationship with a woman, even if I bottomed to her.
I could not be the submissive in the relationship.





MariaB -> RE: Playing with switches (1/28/2013 8:07:29 AM)

I am in a Domme/Dom relationship but I have to say that we have both switched and experimented with one another.
I don't enjoy submitting, if I did then he would make me a perfect Dom. I do however, enjoy a full on fight where he drags me kicking and screaming into surrender. It doesn't happen often but when it does it tends to be random and not expected.
He needs a submissive in his life and that is why we/he has Chloe. Chloe would love to switch, she has it in her even though she's sparrow sized. Its never going to happen in our home but it makes for a fun feisty submissive.
Steve has bottomed in that he's taken sounds, tens, needles and things but he's not submissive.
I don't want to live the lifestyle and neither does he thank goodness. I take what we do seriously but it has to be enjoyable and fun. I went through a phase in my life where I had long term relationships with both male and female submissives. I enjoyed that lifestyle at the time but I've evolved from that place.

To the op. My ex was submissive but dominant over someone else. I never saw this as a problem or a threat but you have to understand that some people will.



xLaChienne -> RE: Playing with switches (1/28/2013 9:14:27 AM)

I don't rule someone out because they are a switch but I don't actively seek a switch, either. I'm very keen to look at the individual and not the title.

Very generally I think the perception is that someone with a dual nature is more suited or inclined to a poly situation. For those who aren't poly then it isn't an appeal.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HarryVanWinkle
I've also noticed that a lot of dominant women say they are NOT interested in switches because sooner or later the switch will want to dominate them. What makes you believe that?


Experience with switches.





wannapleez -> RE: Playing with switches (1/28/2013 11:57:14 AM)

Fascinating question with many factors.

Part of it probably depends on how you define "switch". Is it someone who is willing to assume either role and enjoys it, or is it someone who specifically desires to assume both roles? If it's the latter AND you're in a monogamous relationship where you're not a switch and your partner is, then the concerns that Athena raised are perfectly valid. But if either is not true (either poly or just using first definition), then not so much.

Technically, I am a switch in the first definition of the word, but I don't "advertise" as such since (1) my desires only run toward being a sub and (2) some Dommes would see "switch" as meaning the latter definition and dismiss me before even investigating further. If at some point down the road, a Domme expresses interest in being a sub, I can offer up my willingness (if she so desires) but otherwise I just keep it to myself. Since it's not a desire that might cause me to cheat on her, I don't see this as disingenuous. (Not arguing against LittleMsMary -- but I am riffing a bit off what she said.)

Note that in the first definition, I included "enjoy". While a noble gesture, if a sub agrees to top but doesn't really enjoy it, I'd question the accuracy of them identifying as a "switch". I know that the first time that I Dom'd, I was initially in that camp -- willing, but not necessarily enjoying. My only pleasure came out of her pleasure. Now granted, I really get a lot of pleasure from pleasing a woman, so it was quite fulfilling. But it took a while before it was just plain fun.

I like and identify with the OP's reference to being a service top. Anytime that I am on top, it's because she desires it. So I'm still fulfilling my desire to please (hence my handle).

I suspect that, like TheLilSquaw, I couldn't switch within the same relationship. I haven't really encountered that yet, but in any BDSM relationship, I have a strong mental image of the woman as being a certain way, and inverting that would probably make my hair bleed. I can do -- and have done -- vanilla with a BDSM partner, but total reversal probably wouldn't work.



VideoAdminChi -> RE: Playing with switches (1/28/2013 12:40:24 PM)

FR,

I removed the thread in Ask a S as it was created later than this one and had the same number of replies. If anyone would like their content back to post on this thread, please let me know.



LadyPact -> RE: Playing with switches (1/28/2013 1:04:11 PM)

One thing that I have said for years is that switches get very bad press. I find this to be especially true online. Every female Dominant *knows* somebody who was with a switch who tried to turn the tables, was constantly a power struggle, or went out and cheated to get the 'other side' fed. It's easy to blame that kind of stuff instead of saying that two people just weren't as compatible as they had hoped or normal relationship issues. Unfortunately, such bad press spreads like wildfire.

On top of that is the same wives tale that bisexual folks have to deal with. "Oh, they can't possibly want to be in a monogamous relationship because they want BOTH." It's crap a lot of the time, but because there are SOME folks that are poly and have more than one partner in some time frames, of course that's what all people want. (I need My sarcasm font for writing this post.)

Yes, there's also that segment that don't understand that there are top/bottom switches, Dom/sub switches, and some people are both. This includes the sector that doesn't understand the difference between desire and capability. I know some darn good service tops. They don't seek out topping for their own benefit. It's always tied to making the bottom happy.

I'd be remiss if I didn't put this out there. I do think at least a small percentage of people are afraid of feeling inadequate because the switch is better at doing what they are supposed to be doing than they are. Not different really than those who get intimidated because the sub has decades of experience and the D is still getting their feet wet. Instead of seeing such a situation as a learning opportunity, they let their concerns get the better of them.

Unfortunately, all of these misconceptions get in the way.



TheLilSquaw -> RE: Playing with switches (1/28/2013 1:07:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

One thing that I have said for years is that switches get very bad press. I find this to be especially true online. Every female Dominant *knows* somebody who was with a switch who tried to turn the tables, was constantly a power struggle, or went out and cheated to get the 'other side' fed. It's easy to blame that kind of stuff instead of saying that two people just weren't as compatible as they had hoped or normal relationship issues. Unfortunately, such bad press spreads like wildfire.

On top of that is the same wives tale that bisexual folks have to deal with. "Oh, they can't possibly want to be in a monogamous relationship because they want BOTH." It's crap a lot of the time, but because there are SOME folks that are poly and have more than one partner in some time frames, of course that's what all people want. (I need My sarcasm font for writing this post.)

Yes, there's also that segment that don't understand that there are top/bottom switches, Dom/sub switches, and some people are both. This includes the sector that doesn't understand the difference between desire and capability. I know some darn good service tops. They don't seek out topping for their own benefit. It's always tied to making the bottom happy.

I'd be remiss if I didn't put this out there. I do think at least a small percentage of people are afraid of feeling inadequate because the switch is better at doing what they are supposed to be doing than they are. Not different really than those who get intimidated because the sub has decades of experience and the D is still getting their feet wet. Instead of seeing such a situation as a learning opportunity, they let their concerns get the better of them.

Unfortunately, all of these misconceptions get in the way.



[sm=agree.gif]



wannapleez -> RE: Playing with switches (1/28/2013 1:23:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Yes, there's also that segment that don't understand that there are top/bottom switches, Dom/sub switches, and some people are both. This includes the sector that doesn't understand the difference between desire and capability. I know some darn good service tops. They don't seek out topping for their own benefit. It's always tied to making the bottom happy.



Yeah, that's what I was getting at in my willingness/desire contrast -- you just expressed much better! :)



HarryVanWinkle -> RE: Playing with switches (1/28/2013 1:59:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact



Yes, there's also that segment that don't understand that there are top/bottom switches, Dom/sub switches, and some people are both. This includes the sector that doesn't understand the difference between desire and capability. I know some darn good service tops. They don't seek out topping for their own benefit. It's always tied to making the bottom happy.

Unfortunately, all of these misconceptions get in the way.



Exactly. I can switch top/bottom. I prefer bottom. I cannot switch dom/sub. It's not me. I'm a fairly good top and I quite enjoy it. But, I don't NEED to top. I do NEED to play from time to time with somebody who is getting pleasure from the play. When I top, I consider myself a service top. When I bottom I consider myself a service bottom. I enjoy topping almost any kind of bottom. When bottoming I greatly prefer sadistic tops. On both sides though, my greatest enjoyment of it is the pleasure my partner gets out of it. If I formed a relationship with a sadistic domina who enjoyed topping me and did so on a reasonably regular basis, had no desire ever to bottom and forbid me from topping anybody else, I wouldn't miss topping a bit.

But, I do miss playing.



MariaB -> RE: Playing with switches (1/28/2013 3:20:25 PM)

As always LadyP, you have made some very good points.
Any of us that have spent any time on the scene will know a number of Dom/Domme or sub/sub couples. We know couples where one is switch and the other isn't.
These people do have to be a little more open when it comes to inviting a 3rd or even 4th party into their relationship but I also believe that for the majority of these people, BDSM is not their entire life.
If someone had told me in my past life that I would meet a dominant man and fall in love I would of laughed. I didn't fall in love with his dominance though, I fell in love with the intelligent and fun loving man that he is.
I can't tell you how many people have asked, 'so how does this work?'. Its as though they can't see beyond our dominant traits, like theres nothing else of value.
I don't really think of myself as a switch because its so categorized. I think of myself as an adventurer, a taster of different and unusual delights.



wannapleez -> RE: Playing with switches (1/28/2013 3:35:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

As always LadyP, you have made some very good points.
Any of us that have spent any time on the scene will know a number of Dom/Domme or sub/sub couples. We know couples where one is switch and the other isn't.
These people do have to be a little more open when it comes to inviting a 3rd or even 4th party into their relationship but I also believe that for the majority of these people, BDSM is not their entire life.
If someone had told me in my past life that I would meet a dominant man and fall in love I would of laughed. I didn't fall in love with his dominance though, I fell in love with the intelligent and fun loving man that he is.
I can't tell you how many people have asked, 'so how does this work?'. Its as though they can't see beyond our dominant traits, like theres nothing else of value.
I don't really think of myself as a switch because its so categorized. I think of myself as an adventurer, a taster of different and unusual delights.



I'm gonna buy you a box of paragraph breaks for Christmas. Stuff this good should be easier to read. :)



EsotericLady -> RE: Playing with switches (1/28/2013 3:55:15 PM)

Ditto for me!

And if I might add, my experience with Switches (and I can only speak from MY experience, I realize) has been one of the other person not really sure which role they fit in in a relationship. They end up going back and forth between roles with their own submissive, and then sub with me, until it becomes a disaster.

I can say with positive assurance that I am 100% Dominant. And yes, I HAVE tried the "other side" and it is definitely not for me. Is this Lifestyle as easy as black and white? For me yes, it is.

(Thank you)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleMsMary

I don't have any problem with people who want to switch or people simply into kinky play without any other role/structure involved, but it isn't for me.

Personally, one other issue for me is I find it irritating when somebody has a strongly Dom profile and then emails me and says something to the effect of "well I'm really a switch" or "I'm normally a Dom but that's because I haven't found a woman strong enough to make me submit" etc etc etc...It comes across as disingenuous to me in those cases. I realize that this is more of a human issue of just not being honest or just being a HNG more than it is really a "switch issue" but it is part of the reason I tend to have little interest.




NiceButMeanGirl -> RE: Playing with switches (1/28/2013 6:01:27 PM)

I already answered this on Fetlife, but I will give it a go here too.
quote:

ORIGINAL: HarryVanWinkle
I find it interesting how many submissive say they wouldn't submit to a switch because they're not able to top and wouldn't be able to fill the needs of her other side, so to speak. What makes you think she would want YOU to take care of that need?

Well, when I was a switch myself and I was just starting out w/ my very first submissive, he decided one day not too far in that I was not dominant enough to suit him. So he totally bypassed me and went to my own Dom at the time to tell him that. My then Dom is the one that told me because, evidently, the submissive didn't have the cojones to tell me himself. That really pissed me off that he would disrespect me so much because I was a switch just stretching my Domme wings.
quote:

ORIGINAL: HarryVanWinkle
I've also noticed that a lot of dominant women say they are NOT interested in switches because sooner or later the switch will want to dominate them. What makes you believe that?

My present play partner is a switch. Normally everything is cool and our dynamic is that I am the Domme and he is the submissive. We both like it that way. But I'm kind of a strange bird. I'm a Domme, but I have a "little" aspect to my personality. So when we were talking about that, he got it into his head that he was going to Dom me and do all sorts of things, even things that were against my hard limits. So we had a talk, him and me, and I told him that's not going to happen. So the possibility is always there that he might try to switch in mid-scene.

I'm not saying all switches are like that. I know I wasn't. I was either Domme or sub for the duration of whatever scene/person I was involved with at the time. But I can see the tendency to maybe do so someday in my own play partner, so I can see where some people might be touchy about that.

NBMG



SomethingCatchy -> RE: Playing with switches (1/28/2013 6:46:29 PM)

My own personal experience with men hearing that I'm a switch is damn near every time they always want to try and push me into sex. It's even gotten me in situations where I was afraid and actually ran away from him because he wouldn't stop grabbing at me and hurting me by yanking on my arms and wrists. After that scare I stopped telling people.

I recently told an older guy I've been talking to from here. He's a 'dominant' (I think he's more a top, but whatever) and I felt we got along well as FRIENDS and as soon as he heard 'switch' he wanted to meet me for sex at a hotel right after I had just gotten done telling him I do not have sex with men I am not in a relationship with.

I'm not sure why I attract these freaks who can't understand NO or seem to be rapists waiting in the wings but as long as that 's' word doesn't come up in conversation I never have an issue.

So yea... I have issues with telling people about myself, but I've never had an issue with anyone who labels themselves as a switch and I don't mind getting to know them.



LadyPact -> RE: Playing with switches (1/28/2013 7:08:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

As always LadyP, you have made some very good points.
Any of us that have spent any time on the scene will know a number of Dom/Domme or sub/sub couples. We know couples where one is switch and the other isn't.
These people do have to be a little more open when it comes to inviting a 3rd or even 4th party into their relationship but I also believe that for the majority of these people, BDSM is not their entire life.
If someone had told me in my past life that I would meet a dominant man and fall in love I would of laughed. I didn't fall in love with his dominance though, I fell in love with the intelligent and fun loving man that he is.
I can't tell you how many people have asked, 'so how does this work?'. Its as though they can't see beyond our dominant traits, like theres nothing else of value.
I don't really think of myself as a switch because its so categorized. I think of myself as an adventurer, a taster of different and unusual delights.

Thank you, Maria.

We get this question about how it works all of the time. MP and I don't switch at all. We've co-topped before. Sure, I've tested wax on him and such and I've let him do a few things to Me because I was teaching him, but I don't put that in the switch category. Some people are literally convinced that someone must be submitting in a D/D pair. (Same in reverse for those s/s couples.)

Once people get to know us and see how our personalities work together, they see it really is D/D. Good thing. I'd make a crappy submissive.




wannapleez -> RE: Playing with switches (1/28/2013 11:30:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Thank you, Maria.



<insert chortle here>



PoeticSoul1 -> RE: Playing with switches (1/29/2013 12:25:41 AM)

I am a switch. I think someone hit the nail on the head when talking about how they don't switch in the actual relationship. I have a Dom. However I feel like my Dominant side is something that can not be ignored. So my D allows me to Top. He sets the rules for how far play will go and he supervises. However, I would never try to Top him.

I personally would have no trouble taking a switch myself because in our relationship, they will be submissive. Period. They decide to change that and they will no longer be having a Dom. I'm not going to deal with someone who's constantly playing games and challenging my authority at every turn.



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