RE: Well I could've told you that! (Full Version)

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freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Well I could've told you that! (2/2/2013 6:33:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Switcheroo1983

Are you in Europe, Freedomwarf1? My experience is Arizona, and yes, I would even attest in court, plenty of Muslim men do housework and care for the kids. Yes, in Europe, especially the UK for some reason, I have observed, far too many act like that. Some of the immigrants also bring with them their prior local culture with them when leaving the Islamic world, not just their faith. I'm by no means condoning that behavior, it's prehistoric.


I live in the UK and I consider myself to be British, not European.

Yes, it is something that I commented on to my muslim friends when I lived further up north in the midlands.
They agreed that when you relocate to a new country to start a new life that means to integrate with the community and the lifestyle of your new countrymen.

However, far too often we have seen immigrants bring their whole 'old style' life with them when they arrive here. Many even refuse to learn the lingo or acknowledge their new surroundings and lifestyle.

Here's just one example of what I am talking about...
Where I lived in Peterborough, there was a Pakistani family that lived just two doors up from us.
When they moved in they were given the house fully furnished with just about every modern convenience you could think of - even stuff that I and the wife could never afford to buy for ourselves.
Within a week the house was bare! everything either burnt or thrown out.
The family slept on matresses on the bedroom floor - they had even thrown out the carpets!!
The wife didn't use the brand new cooker or washing machine that was given to them. She was forced to build a bonfire in the middle of the concrete-floored front room and make the food for the family on that - using a tripod and a large hanging cooking pot. Her washing was done outside in the garden in an old tin tub and a wash-board that wouldn't have looked out of place in a dark-ages wash-house.
They ate their food sitting on the floor round the bonfire and never used any cutlery, they used their fingers to eat with.
I will say the kids were always turned out immaculately - no thanks to the woman's hard work.
Every morning, for most of the day, the husband used to go to the local mosque to meet his friends where they just sat outside on the doorstep yakking, smoking and drinking.
The women were expected to clean house while they were gone and we used to see them sweeping the ashes from the fire out of the front door and into the street - much to the annoyance of the local street cleaners who had to clean up the accumulated crap every week from the kerb.
It was always the women that took and collected the kids - never the husband.
And I'm not talking about just one family like this - there were quite a few in my immediate neighbourhood.





Switcheroo1983 -> RE: Well I could've told you that! (2/2/2013 7:05:29 AM)

I'm sorry you have had such an unfortunate experience, freedomwarf1! I don't mean that in a patronizing way, I truly mean it. I've spoken to others in the UK that have had horrific experiences with Islamic neighbors, and have done my best to explain much of their behavior is holdover local culture, not Islamic thought. Some of those holdover immigrants will treat their wives and kids poorly, but will drink booze and keep dogs in the house! The Qur'an gives explicit warning for a man to not be a layabout...

My kids will be here soon, let me give a better response later. If you want to ever talk, also, you can send me a PM.




EsotericLady -> RE: Well I could've told you that! (2/2/2013 7:05:38 AM)

I prefer to look at them as "people" chores.




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Well I could've told you that! (2/2/2013 7:43:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Switcheroo1983

I'm sorry you have had such an unfortunate experience, freedomwarf1! I don't mean that in a patronizing way, I truly mean it. I've spoken to others in the UK that have had horrific experiences with Islamic neighbors, and have done my best to explain much of their behavior is holdover local culture, not Islamic thought. Some of those holdover immigrants will treat their wives and kids poorly, but will drink booze and keep dogs in the house! The Qur'an gives explicit warning for a man to not be a layabout...

My kids will be here soon, let me give a better response later. If you want to ever talk, also, you can send me a PM.


I don't consider the experience unfortunate - at least not on my part.
But it was certainly an eye-opener for me and my kids who really didn't realize just how bad it can be for some living over here who have clung to their old habits.

What amazes me more than anything, if they really came to the UK for a 'better' standard of life than in their own country, why drag the family down to the way they used to live?
I've seen it many times and to be honest, only in islamic communities - including those that live around here in my home town. Though the two local shopkeepers are definitely westernised and loving it!!
You can't tar them all with the same brush but it does seem to be like that for many islamic immigrants living here.

I don't expect them to suddenly turn into a model British citizen overnight; but some of them have been here for 10, 20 or more years and still can't speak a single word of English. They also expect our British laws to ignore their religious ways and customs - especially when it comes to honour killings, female circumcision and general treatment of females. They don't seem to comprehend that isn't the way we do things here and for most Brits we find those customs abhorent if not illegal.

We have plenty of other nationalities that have come to the UK to live and work.
Only last night it was revealed on the BBC news that Polish was the UK's second most popular language!!
I have a very good friend who came to the UK about 8 years ago now and he and all his Polish friends have embraced the freedom and most are hard workers and contribute to their own new-found wealth.
Sure, they still follow their religion (mostly catholic or orthodox from what I can see) but they don't live like they did in Poland. I worked alongside my Polish friend for nearly 6 years so I know him quite well. I even helped him with his divorce. Like most who come here not knowing the lingo, they picked up the swear words before learning the rest of the language. lol. That said, he is doing quite well for himself.

And that's the puzzling thing for me.
Why is it only the islamists that I see that appear to continue to live as they did in their own country rather than embrace the new freedoms that we all enjoy here? Surely that was the main reason for relocating in the first place??
Maybe I'm missing something.




hlen5 -> RE: Well I could've told you that! (2/2/2013 9:40:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ServosCor

.... a safety enclosure around one of my cougar pens......



You had cougars???




TNDommeK -> RE: Well I could've told you that! (2/2/2013 9:51:37 AM)

I would assume its a US thing. Not sure why, hmmm, I might have to google and research.





Level -> RE: Well I could've told you that! (2/2/2013 10:15:27 AM)

Cougar pen:

[image]local://upfiles/243888/EE761C82D82E47E185BD1371A4BC3289.jpg[/image]




LaTigresse -> RE: Well I could've told you that! (2/2/2013 2:28:33 PM)

FR

Last night I came home from work to a clean house, dinner cooking (including freshly baked bread......from scratch mind you). Done by a man that in no way could be described as feminine or androgynous. He has always done a much better job of cleaning house than I. It's his nature, combined with 22 years in the military.

There are other, non traditional, gender tasks we seem to switch on as well. Just based on experience, talent, personal likes and dislikes, etc. I tend to remember to have autos serviced and notice when one isn't.........right...... more quickly than he. I will tackle a home improvement project head on, that causes him to cringe in uncertainty. Not because I am more masculine than he, but because I grew up around gear heads and in a house always in destruction and reconstruction. Going with my dad to construction sites and learning how to swing a hammer. He had neither experience. I know more about growing stuff as well. I also am a better cook than he, though he does pretty damned good.

He cleans house better than I, but I am the decorator. He can't even hang wall art properly..(proper placement, etc.) BUT, he remembers to actually dust it...

When it comes to finances, politics, history, geography he's got it going on. I defer to his knowledge because I know his strengths and my weaknesses.

I take care of my horses, but if a task needs an extra set of hands or more muscle, he offers or expects me to ask, for his help. He may bitch about my god damned fucking horses, but he will be there, by my side, loading bales of hay on a hot humid Iowa summer day. Not because it's the manly thing to do but because he loves me.

He has been a great father and has often times volunteered to take one or two of our grands, for a weekend, and do everything required, including meal prep, diaper changing, and bathing........because HE was the one that volunteered. I have yet to meet a woman that doesn't find that sexy as hell.

We've been married 22 1/2 years. He's not that hot young soldier, with washboard abs, that I met one summer 24 years ago, and his hair is going gray. But women half our age routinely hit on him even now. Not because he's some caveman macho dick. But because he is an intelligent, fun, well rounded, guy. Most of the guys around here wouldn't have a clue how to cook their dinner or clean up after themselves. They drive around in 4 wheel drive trucks, spend too much money on hunting gear and beer. They spend more time with the guys than they do their wives and kids. They also tend to end up divorced an awful lot.

Most marriages that I've seen last for many decades, there were no defined, men's work and women's work. There was the mindset of, who has the time and who is better at it........that's who does it.

Then you have guys like my father. Never ever did housework. Didn't want his wife working. Preferred her home, barefoot, raising babies. All of the money was HIS money. She would have beg for grocery money or to buy her kids, and self, needed clothing. My father now lives alone. Has two ex wives. And 6 estranged kids. Grand kids he's never met, and great grand kids he's never met. That old school macho shit didn't work out too well for him. I know quite a few guys like him.




Level -> RE: Well I could've told you that! (2/2/2013 3:30:55 PM)

Boy, when you let one rip....good.




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Well I could've told you that! (2/2/2013 3:42:28 PM)

Nice one LaT - sounds like you got a good 'un!

As for your father - I saw far too many of them when I was over in the US.
And they wonder why divorce rates are sky high these days??





PeonForHer -> RE: Well I could've told you that! (2/2/2013 3:59:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Boy, when you let one rip....good.


*Snigger*. You wouldn't say that to a Brit woman if you were a Brit man.




Level -> RE: Well I could've told you that! (2/2/2013 4:40:25 PM)

Meaning to "fart"? It's the same here, or can be. I wasn't there when she wrote the post, so I can't comment on that.
[:D]




littlewonder -> RE: Well I could've told you that! (2/2/2013 6:29:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2


quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

You sure isn't just a dislike of babies? They all look like Winston Churchill to me, which I find disturbing.
[8D]


I don't think it's that. All bulldogs look like Winston Churchill to me, and I love bulldogs. Babies are adorable; I'm just glad I don't have to own one.


I find men pushing baby strollers and taking them to the park and playing with them to be endearing. It says to me that they love their children and are happily and willingly wanting to be fathers.

When I hear of men who won't do it because it "threatens" their manhood, to me it says their "manhood" is much more important to them than raising a child in a healthy family.




DesFIP -> RE: Well I could've told you that! (2/2/2013 6:54:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

And a man who is not involved with his children is not a man worthy of respect. Plain and simple.


Oh, but it's all his ex's fault, "She won't let me see them."

"What does the court say about that?"

"Well..."

Loser.



Then you ask them whether they have an apartment near the kids, and does it have a spare bedroom for them to stay in, the answer is always no.

My father had a friend who remarried, his new wife was childless. They complained of problems with his daughter. I knew they had a spare room so I asked if they had invited her to leave a suitcase there. "Gee, no, why would we?"

"You want her to visit and to care about you, then you better tangibly show her she's welcome". Giving her a closet was all it took to start huge changes for the better for their relationship.




lmpishlilhellcat -> RE: Well I could've told you that! (2/2/2013 8:43:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2


quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

You sure isn't just a dislike of babies? They all look like Winston Churchill to me, which I find disturbing.
[8D]


I don't think it's that. All bulldogs look like Winston Churchill to me, and I love bulldogs. Babies are adorable; I'm just glad I don't have to own one.


I find men pushing baby strollers and taking them to the park and playing with them to be endearing. It says to me that they love their children and are happily and willingly wanting to be fathers.

When I hear of men who won't do it because it "threatens" their manhood, to me it says their "manhood" is much more important to them than raising a child in a healthy family.




This ^




egern -> RE: Well I could've told you that! (2/3/2013 4:50:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TAFKAA

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=10862797

I've long maintained that sexual polarity is the key to passion and this study puts another nail in the coffin of the egalitarian nonsense trying to steer us all down the path to androgyny.

Let that be a lesson to you men: Stop dusting the house like a pussy and take her while she's doing said dusting.




Ok I'll bite :-)

The version I read noticed that the outcome was uncertain because in a number of couples the man and woman reported a different sex frequency.

Furthermore, the English article ends:
"However, the study's authors stop short of arguing that house husbands should hang up their aprons.

"Men who refuse to help around the house could increase conflict in their marriage and lower their wives' marital satisfaction," Kornrich said.

"Earlier research has found that women's marital satisfaction is indeed linked to men's participation in overall household labor, which encompasses tasks traditionally done by both men and women.""

Another comment of earlier studies:

"If you hang out on the Internet long enough all things become true. Just over three years ago, I wrote about a survey purporting to find that the more housework a married man does, the more nookie he “gets.” And now we have a new study reporting that the more housework a man does, the less sex he has — at least that’s how most news outlets are reporting it. Don’t you just love it when science allows you to pick and choose research that aligns with your worldview?"

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/31/do_the_dishes_have_less_sex/




egern -> RE: Well I could've told you that! (2/3/2013 4:52:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

eehhh...for me I always like when he helps me with chores. It frees up my time and his and gives us MORE time to have more sex and more playtime.

It was the same when I was married and had a child. I was exhausted all the time because I was doing all the chores, raising a child and working. At the end of the day all I wanted to do was sleep while he wanted sex 24/7. Well, I used to tell him all the time, had he helped to take care of our child and helped me with some chores I might not be so tired and we would both be able to do more together. Yeah, never seemed to sink in though. So the more work I did while he just sat on the couch while he watched our child try to strangle the cat and did nothing, the less sex he got.

So, you wanna have sex and complain you're not having enough? Ask yourself why. Could it possibly be she's tired from doing everything?

So yeah, while I like a man who is a man and does the "manly" chores, I also like a man who understands the fact that the more help the faster things get done the less tired we both are and the more sex and fun we have together.



A very practical truth indeed.




egern -> RE: Well I could've told you that! (2/3/2013 5:02:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: leonine
I wonder if these fixed gender roles are a US thing? Back when I was a kid you could still find men who'd be ashamed to be seen pushing a baby pram, but anyone expressing that view now would get treated as a living fossil.



Not judging by the answers here, but then again it was an US test, so maybe??




leonine -> RE: Well I could've told you that! (2/3/2013 6:21:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

quote:

I have never really understood (and still don't) why all those I met and lived with in the US and some of my friends here still cling on to that ancient victorian ideology of the sexist role models of bygone years. I actually find it quite nauseating that they are too 'manly' or chauvanistic to cook the dinner or look after their kids or help to clean the house etc.


Ummmmmm, do you know what site you are on?
We're on a BDSM site, for people who play at a lot of things, such as rape, slavery and child abuse, which we'd wholeheartedly oppose in their real, non-consensual form. So why do you have a problem with someone who opposes oppressive sexist roles in real life? Do you know that we have a goodly number of female dominance and female supremacy fans on this site?

(I am aware, from experience, that in the UK at least, a great many men who worship Dommes are old school male chauvinists outside their kink, but that's another topic.)
quote:


To me, the above insults many of the relationships of the readers here.
To me, it would be insulting to suggest that a maledom relationship is comparable to the sort of unthinking sexism Dwarf describes.
quote:


I could be wrong, but I doubt it seriously.
"If I'm right - and I always am -" (Doctor Who)




absolutchocolat -> RE: Well I could've told you that! (2/3/2013 6:29:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder


I find men pushing baby strollers and taking them to the park and playing with them to be endearing. It says to me that they love their children and are happily and willingly wanting to be fathers.




Me too! I have a friend who has the cutest Facebook picture of him and his (then) toddler daughter wearing purple and she's reaching for his hat with a little devilish grin. I still look at it and say, "Awww."

My Pops raised me and the twin while mom worked during the day. He had us in matching Sweet Pea bonnets, pushing the double stroller, buying two ice cream cones so we'd be sleepy and full and sticky while we made sand castles at the park. He also cleaned, cooked, changed diapers, and made groceries so Mom could take a hot bath and chill when she got home.

A marriage/civil union/two people in love shacking up is a partnership. Working together means working smarter, not harder. Also, my first submissive partner was a total alpha male, but every time he stood in front of the stove to roast chicken and stir-fry veggies, I wanted to ride him like a roller coaster. He'd get eye-banged and groped as he mashed potatoes. Oh, man. Men in aprons are hot. Really, really hot. [sm=whap.gif]




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