RE: Beyond peeve and getting to fury....

RE: Beyond peeve and getting to fury.... (Full Version)

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TAFKAA -> RE: Beyond peeve and getting to fury.... (2/5/2013 1:33:05 PM)
Oh for fuck's sake - because 98% of Doms - including those in the scene - are fucking pretenders. That's fucking why. I've never asked a woman for permission to do anything intimate with her. Why? Because I'm socially intelligent and I read her. I know if a woman's cool with me touching her, even if nothing actually happens. I had a moment with a friend once, where we were out and about talking and walking through the street and I knew she wanted to kiss me. Nothing happened at the time - I didn't really want to go there - but she confirmed it months later when we did actually end up hooking up. What you're experiencing are fucking morons who wouldn't know dominance if it fucked them up the ass with a pipe. They're grabby because they're not used to having intimate contact with women on their own terms and so they try and steal such moments whenever they can. If such people are your friends, then you need to raise your fucking standards.

LadyPact -> RE: Beyond peeve and getting to fury.... (2/5/2013 1:52:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Notsweet LOL--around here, that's a given. I go to Dark Odyssey dungeons, and places that are the size of auditoriums. Sometimes THAT'S so packed, you have to be careful. But to just plain dumb walk behind a whipping scene? Those are the people you see with a lash mark to the cheek. And usually a completely unsympathetic audience and an unrepentant top <grin>. Oh, clip laughs about that shit to this day. We used to call those types tourists. Not familiar enough with what's really going on and too much of a lookie loo to avoid getting too close. The occasional glance behind as a top when playing isn't unusual for a crowded room but when I'm looking behind Me more than at the target, it gets old quick. I read the other comment about your hair. What kind of lack of class does that take? I've got a real thing for hair pulling but I would never take that kind of liberty without asking.

JeffBC -> RE: Beyond peeve and getting to fury.... (2/5/2013 2:16:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I read the other comment about your hair. What kind of lack of class does that take? I've got a real thing for hair pulling but I would never take that kind of liberty without asking. I have to presume it's the illegal nature of BDSM that makes the obvious answer to that not-so-obvious. Seriously? We have several different sorts of crimes going on here. It's kind of like "pick your flavor" of criminality. I'd be treating it in that way.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Beyond peeve and getting to fury.... (2/5/2013 6:27:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Notsweet Anybody else have this problem? How do you handle it? I'm currently an unattached submissive. This is BY CHOICE. It's because I'm looking for the right one, not one for right now. Why then, do friends or acquaintances who happen to be tops/doms/masters think that they have license to come up and give me orders, or even worse, to put their hands on me? It's the R/L equivalent of the "On your knees, bitch" that we get online. It's stupid, it's rude, and in some cases, it's ASSAULT. Fair warning. If you aren't my dom and you take license to put your hands on me, I will take license to put my hands on you, and it will NOT feel good. Well, I don't actually envision someone online...like...on a computer screen (from some distant place)....telling you what to do as....an assault. I see it more as silly (but hardly worth contacting an attorney).

Nelee -> RE: Beyond peeve and getting to fury.... (2/5/2013 7:20:20 PM)
FR People like that are very immature, in my eyes, if they think that's okay. They may still have it in their heads that any submissive is their submissive, or that since they're a dom/me, they can get what they please from whomever. Very, very immature. Good on you for sticking up for yourself, and make sure you notify whoever you would need to notify so that it doesn't happen again. Although I can see the positive in the offender "getting what's coming to them", taking the law into your own hands can do it's own type of harm.

Notsweet -> RE: Beyond peeve and getting to fury.... (2/5/2013 7:23:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: Notsweet Anybody else have this problem? How do you handle it? I'm currently an unattached submissive. This is BY CHOICE. It's because I'm looking for the right one, not one for right now. Why then, do friends or acquaintances who happen to be tops/doms/masters think that they have license to come up and give me orders, or even worse, to put their hands on me? It's the R/L equivalent of the "On your knees, bitch" that we get online. It's stupid, it's rude, and in some cases, it's ASSAULT. Fair warning. If you aren't my dom and you take license to put your hands on me, I will take license to put my hands on you, and it will NOT feel good. Well, I don't actually envision someone online...like...on a computer screen (from some distant place)....telling you what to do as....an assault. I see it more as silly (but hardly worth contacting an attorney). Yeah, it's worse when it's physical, but when they're in person and do the order me around crap, it's as funny as it is online. Except instead of delete, you have to actually demonstrate that you think they're a wanker. And that's different from the actual physical assault of being handled by someone who didn't do the work, ya know?

littlewonder -> RE: Beyond peeve and getting to fury.... (2/5/2013 7:41:55 PM)
Ok, now we get to the meat of the problem. You said you are close to this guy as he is in a couple and you are still something...friend? Lover? Play partner? with the woman. I'm going to assume he was part of that as well and so in the past he was given consent by you for touching and/or more? If this is all true then we're talking something entirely different than the version you first posted, making it sound like it was a total stranger. So this is just a guy who felt he still had those rights with you to order you around and touch you since it sounds to me like barriers by you two were never put up and since you are still whatever with his wife, he thinks that the same still holds true for him as for his wife with you. Do I think this guy deserved what he did to you? I dunno. What did he do to you before? Did you ever actually tell him to fuck off before all this happened when you two first split? If not and if the split was sorta vague then no I don't think he deserved what you did. If however, lines were clearly drawn and you both understood the lines clearly, then maybe he may have. I still am not sure on that since we don't know the entire story. I will say however, you still being with his wife will cause you to continue to have problems with him. How could it not since they show up together as a couple to the same events you go to as well.

xssve -> RE: Beyond peeve and getting to fury.... (2/5/2013 8:08:03 PM)
Interesting show on NPR, philosophy talk or some shit - anyway, today they were discussing relativism and absolutism, which pose some interesting questions, the answers to which, are often ambiguous. Many of these problems are discussed in here, where theory meets praxis, where the rubber meets the road. I personally cannot do otherwise than to establish informed consent as the cornerstone of any sort of rational absolutism; i.e., any systematic form of ethical policy that can functionally distinguish "right" from "wrong". Apparently the legal system agrees with me, so I am just reiterating a point already made, or in the making, that given we are in at least one sense, individual hermetic consciousness's (?), we differ not only externally, in our particular morphology, but in our perceptions, and our ability to communicate them, which are the evidence of consciousness. It's the price of sexual reproduction, we're all mutants, no two of us are precisely alike, it's not how nature works, evolution is like a vast and beautiful fractal equation on the macro level, like a game of backalley craps on the micro level. And, this being demonstrably the case, establishing any meaningful point of reference that forms the basis for any foundation of a moral and ethical order we can all agree upon; a socially and economically successful iterative function, one that allows us to express our consciousness, to express our thoughts freely, appears to have the greatest probability of overcoming adaptational shifts, and informed consent is the only logical second step given the kinetic character of physical reality. But yeah, given those hermetic fantasies many of us appear to inhabit, it becomes easy to rationalize this away, even if it is the cornerstone of Western civilization, so you should never hesitate to assert your natural rights.

Notsweet -> RE: Beyond peeve and getting to fury.... (2/5/2013 8:18:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder Ok, now we get to the meat of the problem. You said you are close to this guy as he is in a couple and you are still something...friend? Lover? Play partner? with the woman. I'm going to assume he was part of that as well and so in the past he was given consent by you for touching and/or more? If this is all true then we're talking something entirely different than the version you first posted, making it sound like it was a total stranger. So this is just a guy who felt he still had those rights with you to order you around and touch you since it sounds to me like barriers by you two were never put up and since you are still whatever with his wife, he thinks that the same still holds true for him as for his wife with you. Do I think this guy deserved what he did to you? I dunno. What did he do to you before? Did you ever actually tell him to fuck off before all this happened when you two first split? If not and if the split was sorta vague then no I don't think he deserved what you did. If however, lines were clearly drawn and you both understood the lines clearly, then maybe he may have. I still am not sure on that since we don't know the entire story. I will say however, you still being with his wife will cause you to continue to have problems with him. How could it not since they show up together as a couple to the same events you go to as well. Whoa!!! Friends. You know, "Hi, Jane, that dessert you made for the party is fabulous, can I have the recipe?" "Hey, Notsweet, do you still have those boots you wore to X? Could I borrow them for Y?" "Mary, is that a picture of your new grandbaby?" "How's your cat? Did you ever try that new food that Bob told you about?" "Hey, have you guys seen Jim? Is he here yet?" You know. Friends. Not play partners. Not fuck buddies. Not lovers. Friends. People you see at an event four times a year for twenty years. I get the feeling that doing events isn't something everyone does on a regular basis. And there isn't a problem since I demonstrated that I knew where to find his nutsack. I just wondered how other people dealt with it, since it's happened to me a couple of times, and to a friend most recently.

Notsweet -> RE: Beyond peeve and getting to fury.... (2/5/2013 8:19:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xssve Interesting show on NPR, philosophy talk or some shit - anyway, today they were discussing relativism and absolutism, which pose some interesting questions, the answers to which, are often ambiguous. Many of these problems are discussed in here, where theory meets praxis, where the rubber meets the road. I personally cannot do otherwise than to establish informed consent as the cornerstone of any sort of rational absolutism; i.e., any systematic form of ethical policy that can functionally distinguish "right" from "wrong". Apparently the legal system agrees with me, so I am just reiterating a point already made, or in the making, that given we are in at least one sense, individual hermetic consciousness's (?), we differ not only externally, in our particular morphology, but in our perceptions, and our ability to communicate them, which are the evidence of consciousness. It's the price of sexual reproduction, we're all mutants, no two of us are precisely alike, it's not how nature works, evolution is like a vast and beautiful fractal equation on the macro level, like a game of backalley craps on the micro level. And, this being demonstrably the case, establishing any meaningful point of reference that forms the basis for any foundation of a moral and ethical order we can all agree upon; a socially and economically successful iterative function, one that allows us to express our consciousness, to express our thoughts freely, appears to have the greatest probability of overcoming adaptational shifts, and informed consent is the only logical second step given the kinetic character of physical reality. But yeah, given those hermetic fantasies many of us appear to inhabit, it becomes easy to rationalize this away, even if it is the cornerstone of Western civilization, so you should never hesitate to assert your natural rights. I read it twice, and yes. I agree.

littlewonder -> RE: Beyond peeve and getting to fury.... (2/5/2013 8:36:43 PM)
Ok, well the way you said you are still with his wife, I figured you had more involvement with them both. If it was more on an acquaintance basis then, then yes he probably went too far. Were you playing with someone else? Did that person talk to him at any time? Maybe giving some kind of insuation that it was ok? If not, did that person say anything to the person? I've been to plenty of play parties, even ran quite a few in the past and I can see where it sometimes became a mob mentality and sometimes things could have gotten out of hand. But like I said, I wasn't there and have no idea what the environment was like there.

Notsweet -> RE: Beyond peeve and getting to fury.... (2/5/2013 8:41:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder Ok, well the way you said you are still with his wife, I figured you had more involvement with them both. If it was more on an acquaintance basis then, then yes he probably went too far. Were you playing with someone else? Did that person talk to him at any time? Maybe giving some kind of insuation that it was ok? If not, did that person say anything to the person? I've been to plenty of play parties, even ran quite a few in the past and I can see where it sometimes became a mob mentality and sometimes things could have gotten out of hand. But like I said, I wasn't there and have no idea what the environment was like there. No, I was minding my own business, talking with a few people. And they didn't say anything except to tell him: "You better look out!" when he pulled my hair and "OOOOOPH" when the jewels got in the way of my palm.

LadyPact -> RE: Beyond peeve and getting to fury.... (2/5/2013 8:47:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Notsweet Whoa!!! Friends. You know, "Hi, Jane, that dessert you made for the party is fabulous, can I have the recipe?" "Hey, Notsweet, do you still have those boots you wore to X? Could I borrow them for Y?" "Mary, is that a picture of your new grandbaby?" "How's your cat? Did you ever try that new food that Bob told you about?" "Hey, have you guys seen Jim? Is he here yet?" You know. Friends. Not play partners. Not fuck buddies. Not lovers. Friends. People you see at an event four times a year for twenty years. I get the feeling that doing events isn't something everyone does on a regular basis. And there isn't a problem since I demonstrated that I knew where to find his nutsack. I just wondered how other people dealt with it, since it's happened to me a couple of times, and to a friend most recently. A little off topic here, but that's not the definition that I use for friend. That is more like an acquaintance. Which, when you look at it, isn't quite the same when discussed.

Notsweet -> RE: Beyond peeve and getting to fury.... (2/5/2013 10:19:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact A little off topic here, but that's not the definition that I use for friend. That is more like an acquaintance. Which, when you look at it, isn't quite the same when discussed. Hmmm. Well, I can see that. I think we have different kinds of friends. I have friends that I've had who knew me when I was a little kid, and they're still around. Friends that I made in different places I've lived. Friends who call when they're in trouble. Friends I haven't seen in years, but when I do, it's as though there was no time passed. Friends who are family to the point that my bio family recognizes them as family. Scene friends who were around when my parents died, but who know things about me that friends who are family really don't want to know. Scene friends who understand my divorce in ways my vanilla friends never will. I think it would be kind of sad to only have one kind. I think we define for ourselves what makes a friend, poorly behaved or not.

JeffBC -> RE: Beyond peeve and getting to fury.... (2/5/2013 11:13:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Notsweet I think it would be kind of sad to only have one kind. I think we define for ourselves what makes a friend, poorly behaved or not. Well true enough but this fetish with labels is a BDSM thing. Ignoring the label for a second, if you allow people into your circle then they bring with them their behavior... bad and otherwise. You can call them whatever you want but if they are fucking with your wa then it results in posts like this. It's not a question of labels. It's a question of reality and karma. edited to ask: So why didn't you call the cops and have him in jail for assault & battery if not sexual assault?

Notsweet -> RE: Beyond peeve and getting to fury.... (2/5/2013 11:18:05 PM)
Well, Jeff, first, I'd only call the police for things I can't handle myself. Secondly, when you're at a kink event...you don't call the police unless you really, really have to. Edited to add: if his behavior had been a problem when we first met, lo these twenty years ago, he wouldn't have been in the circle.

JeffBC -> RE: Beyond peeve and getting to fury.... (2/5/2013 11:31:14 PM)
You're actual question was, "How do you handle it?" How I handle it is by actually handling it. I put the criminal behind bars where they belong rather than passing the problem on to the next person. Fury is fun but I prefer actual results. My reaction is akin to what I'd do if someone robbed my house and I happened to know who did it. Sure I might buy better locks and/or an alarm system. But his happy ass would be in jail so that he wasn't robbing the next house. What I don't fully understand in your reaction is that you were furious but you don't seem to recognize the criminal aspect of this or give it any weight. I very definitely do.

NiceButMeanGirl -> RE: Beyond peeve and getting to fury.... (2/5/2013 11:56:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Notsweet Anybody else have this problem? How do you handle it? I know in this instance, the sub was not single, but... I remember having a sub of mine at a play party and this Dom came up and pressured him to play. My sub said he needed to ask me first and the Dom kept pressuring and put his hands on my sub. My sub told me about it and I verbally kicked that Dom's ass & told the DM that the Dom was touching without permission. He got a warning that, if he ever did it again, he was no longer welcome at the play parties there. He then backed off. quote: ORIGINAL: JeffB what sort of touching are you talking about? Are you talking about the random sort of jostling that happens when you put a bunch of folks into a room or are you talking something more directed? She said: quote: ORIGINAL: Notsweet I wish I was talking about grab ass. I'm talking about "grab my hair and pull me with it." If it were random accidental touching because the room was just so crowded that would be one thing and understandable. If it's directed purposely right at the OP like it apparently was, it's no wonder she's pissed. I think, were it me in her spot, I would tell the "offending party" to get his F'ing hands off me and then go to the DM and report it. If he's being that direct with her, there's a good chance he's doing it to others too, or at least the others who don't complain. NBMG

CynthiaWVirginia -> RE: Beyond peeve and getting to fury.... (2/6/2013 12:20:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Notsweet Anybody else have this problem? How do you handle it? I'm currently an unattached submissive. This is BY CHOICE. It's because I'm looking for the right one, not one for right now. Why then, do friends or acquaintances who happen to be tops/doms/masters think that they have license to come up and give me orders, or even worse, to put their hands on me? It's the R/L equivalent of the "On your knees, bitch" that we get online. It's stupid, it's rude, and in some cases, it's ASSAULT. Fair warning. If you aren't my dom and you take license to put your hands on me, I will take license to put my hands on you, and it will NOT feel good. Because they are being presumptuous and rude. To make it clear to others that this is a scene/roleplay, yell "SAFEWORD". That should get everyone's attention. In our groups, everyone would be able to hear a pin drop afterward. Please inform the group leader. If not for yourself, then to make them aware that this is unwelcomed, not a scene, and that fem subs might go poof and leave their group if it doesn't stop. The offenders will likely be banned for several months to drive the point home.

LafayetteLady -> RE: Beyond peeve and getting to fury.... (2/6/2013 1:12:23 AM)
I can't help but feel bad for this guy's wife. I certainly wouldn't continue to be friends with her either. They may have an open relationship and he may be the dominant, but she doesn't look too good when her husband is running around grabbing people without permission. Everyone always talks about how an s-type is a reflection of the d-type. Seems to me that should go both ways...

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