Consensual non-consent or rape play (Full Version)

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OsideGirl -> Consensual non-consent or rape play (2/5/2013 7:27:31 PM)

As I've stated before, Master and I will engage in what is considered rape play or what we prefer to call a "consensual non-consent" scene.

This thread was started elsewhere: http://www.collarchat.com/m_4372137/tm.htm

It was stated that he would not allow the "terms" to be changed once negotiated. When it was pointed out that continuing past someone withdrawing consent would be considered actual rape, it was stated that he should have known because someone who was that submissive would already be someone's slave.

I know the boundaries of what happens when we play, ie: I know that if it becomes distressing for me he will stop out of concern for my well being and desire to not cause harm.

So, where are your boundaries when it comes to consensual non-consent? Do you equate removing consent for distress to be non-submissive?




DarkSteven -> RE: Consensual non-consent or rape play (2/5/2013 7:37:51 PM)

First, a disclaimer: I have never done cnc play.

That said, I have been in scenes when something went south. When that happens, I stop play or at least ease up. If I proceed, the best that can happen is that we get our rocks off. The worst that could happen is possible trauma, anger, distrust, etc. The upside is swamped by the downside.

I need good communication when I top. If someone does not communicate distress to me (and a safeword is a distress signal), I can't properly run a scene.

I can see not having a safeword for a longterm partner. I need one for an occasional or new play partner.



littlewonder -> RE: Consensual non-consent or rape play (2/5/2013 7:46:40 PM)

There is no boundary in our relationship.

I really don't know what else to say.

I guess if I was having some kind of horrendous issue, then it might be rape I guess if he didn't stop. Even then I would never, ever, not once ever accuse him of rape. It would be stupid. As far as I'm concerned, as long as I don't walk out the door then I consent to whatever he wants to do. But after 7 years together? I think he can read my pretty well...better than I can myself and that's no lie. He can.

I can't imagine being with someone for sooooo long that you don't know the difference. I see this only being a problem with those who are in a new relationship, who play casually with strangers or those who are so very jaded in a relationship that they can't let go and they flip out at pretty much everything done.

Otherwise, what's the problem?





OsideGirl -> RE: Consensual non-consent or rape play (2/5/2013 7:56:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I can't imagine being with someone for sooooo long that you don't know the difference. I see this only being a problem with those who are in a new relationship, who play casually with strangers or those who are so very jaded in a relationship that they can't let go and they flip out at pretty much everything done.


I agree with this. I think part of the issue with us is that I know him so well that I know that if we're going into the realm of harming me vs. hurting me, he'd stop. It allows me to relax and enjoy the ride.

But the post in question was his criteria for a submissive that he wasn't in a relationship with yet.






littlewonder -> RE: Consensual non-consent or rape play (2/5/2013 7:59:31 PM)

And as I stated, when you play with strangers, this is what happens. If you're going to play with strangers, expect this to happen. So if this is something you are afraid of and you really are not very good at learning body language, sounds, movements, the feel of skin, nervousness or any other emotion in a person, then you might wanna think twice about playing with strangers until you get to know them better.

This is really the only time I see this.



ARIES83 -> RE: Consensual non-consent or rape play (2/5/2013 8:26:12 PM)

Well, the keyword is play isn't it.
I've done a fair bit of non-consensual play, with
the focus on forcing and controling things but
not mainly involving sex, it's more in the theme
of affectionate bullying play and yes it is a
minefield but the keyword to that is "affectionate".

quote:


I know the boundaries of what happens when we play, ie: I know that if it becomes distressing for me he will stop out of concern for my well being and desire to not cause harm.


IMO this^, is at the core of it.
I don't think removal of consent is non-submissive,
we all have different comfort levels and
preferences.

Of course, "consensual, non-consent" is a funny
idea but it is a thing, although maybe a thing
that needs someone more articulate than me to...
Err, articulate. [8D]



LadyPact -> RE: Consensual non-consent or rape play (2/5/2013 8:34:29 PM)

After six years, if he doesn't know how to get My attention when it's serious, we shouldn't be doing this kind of play.

Sorry, Oside. That's the best I've got.



mons -> RE: Consensual non-consent or rape play (2/5/2013 8:57:06 PM)

Since I was a victim of rape I would not ever play with anyone in this manner!

Mons



JeffBC -> RE: Consensual non-consent or rape play (2/5/2013 9:13:30 PM)

Since oxymorons are, by definition, stupid and deceptive I'll pass on the whole CNC thing. But I'll try to give this a go anwyay.

quote:

So, where are your boundaries when it comes to consensual non-consent? Do you equate removing consent for distress to be non-submissive?

Carol and I don't do D/s by agreement and we don't do labels and we don't do consent. That sort of leaves us in the reality of the moment rather than the static roles of BDSM. So yes, if in some moment Carol thwarted my will in any way I'd have to read it as me failing to dom and her failing to sub. Such an event would be the end of the collar.

Insofar as the original thread you derived this from I don't know what to make of it. I think that guy is mostly clueless.

I could make obvious points about how the law might see his little play party but he and the cops can have that conversation. I'm more interested in why, exactly, he feels some random woman -- even one who's "submissive enough" like Carol and already someone's slave -- would extend that sort of trust to a relative stranger. He's basically asking for a casual TPE relationship. I wonder if he has even a remote clue why, exactly, someone like Carol would say "no boundaries" and mean it.

Let's be serious. He is asking for carte-blanche except for a handful of listed limits agreed to before hand. Yeah right. Oh wait... she forgot to include "No insertion of objects larger than a basketball" Oh well... suck it up now bitch. We have to get this whole basketball scene done before the midgets show up. Oh wait.. you forgot to think about those also?



OsideGirl -> RE: Consensual non-consent or rape play (2/6/2013 8:21:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
Oh wait... she forgot to include "No insertion of objects larger than a basketball" Oh well... suck it up now bitch. We have to get this whole basketball scene done before the midgets show up. Oh wait.. you forgot to think about those also?


I just snorted coffee. And you say you're not a sadist....



JeffBC -> RE: Consensual non-consent or rape play (2/6/2013 10:24:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
I just snorted coffee. And you say you're not a sadist....

I'm the good cop. Just imagine what Kana might have done with such an opening :)

I can force Carol to have sex with me when she very forcefully does not want to. I have done so and I haven't gone to jail for it. I just wouldn't recommend it among almost strangers. As you, I think, were trying to point out the context of the relationship and the understanding between the two individuals matters A LOT in such situations.

I don't think the guy in that thread was evil. I just think what he's proposing to do is exceptionally risky... for him moreso than the sub.



OsideGirl -> RE: Consensual non-consent or rape play (2/6/2013 10:32:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

I don't think the guy in that thread was evil. I just think what he's proposing to do is exceptionally risky... for him moreso than the sub.


I thought he was clueless. He had not assessed the situation beyond the end of his penis.



littlewonder -> RE: Consensual non-consent or rape play (2/6/2013 11:17:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
I just snorted coffee. And you say you're not a sadist....

I'm the good cop. Just imagine what Kana might have done with such an opening :)


One simply does not use Kana and opening in the same sentence. <shudder> [8D]



Subano -> RE: Consensual non-consent or rape play (2/6/2013 11:53:32 AM)

I think it would be fun for you - and again - as stated - the keyword is play.



Missokyst -> RE: Consensual non-consent or rape play (2/6/2013 1:00:23 PM)

For me consensual non-consent lasted long after we ended. In my head I was still his and was somewhat ok with his continued pursuit even though he had moved on. In my head I was and still am, his. BUT, I think there is a switch somewhere that flips over. I do still love the man, but now there is no consent. So for me at least it was valid until I was able to reclaim that part of me that gave him total power. Within a secure relationship I doubt that would have ever happened.



ForcedDecadence -> RE: Consensual non-consent or rape play (2/6/2013 1:11:04 PM)

Consensual non-consent is a strange thing indeed. I don't see it as an exact activity, not in the way something like, say, shibari can be a variety of things revolving around a core concept. Consensual non-consent in my experience is a session in which you push against limits and ignore comfort zones for the sake of reaching a new level. For this to actually be a CNC scenario and not literally rape, in my mind, it takes a Master that knows intimately the hard limits, capabilities and place that their submissive or slave can reach without actually reaching a point of damage. I always saw it as a kind of layer you put on top of play. Almost like a fast forward in which the sub gives up control so that the Master decides where and how far she will go. Not to say that a regular D/s relationship isn't essentially this, but perhaps without the subtle comforts along the way available in a non CNC scene.

Forgive me if this sounds a bit convoluted. It is a messy thought in my head as it is.



subinsilicon -> RE: Consensual non-consent or rape play (2/6/2013 2:33:33 PM)

I remember reading a local sfbay Craigslist advertisement where the woman asked to be raped ... but I figured it was a scam (somehow) or a prank (more likely), and didn't red further.



DarkSteven -> RE: Consensual non-consent or rape play (2/6/2013 9:09:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

I don't think the guy in that thread was evil. I just think what he's proposing to do is exceptionally risky... for him moreso than the sub.


I thought he was clueless. He had not assessed the situation beyond the end of his penis.



That was my take on it as well. Even without his penis being involved, he was still clueless, as shown in his statement that the women who would allow rape were so submissive that Dominants had snapped them up already.



Akrotiri -> RE: Consensual non-consent or rape play (2/6/2013 9:15:44 PM)

Aren't all men rapists anyway?

Animals are.



cloudboy -> RE: Consensual non-consent or rape play (2/6/2013 9:18:43 PM)


I just say stop. Subs can shut down a scene when they want to, they just don't feel super good about it.



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