RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....?

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TheLilSquaw -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/9/2013 2:58:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne My question is, "Has the community overwhelmingly agreed to any lines in the sand" as you put it. If so, how do newbies access that sort of information? From what I can tell, you are saying that the answer is, "No." The "community" can't even come up with a universally accepted defintion for words such as slave and submissive. What makes you think the "community" has a universal line in the sand on what is acceptable and what isn't between consenting adults. Yes, everyone has their personal opinions. Again, that is why I really dislike SSC. Who decides what if safe and or sane? Although in a sense we are a community. The reality is, like any other community, we are made up of individuals with our own believes, guidelines, morals and thoughts. Sometimes there is common ground and other times... We all simply co-exist (begrudgingly at times).

LadyPact -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/9/2013 2:58:31 PM)
'TwoHearts, I wanted to make sure that you knew I wasn't ignoring your latest response. I apologize, but I am minutes away from leaving the house for the community dungeon, so I can't address your points with the dedication that they deserve. I did want to very quickly mention that I dropped a note to Chi. I don't think Ranger2 has been active for a while. If I am right about that, you won't get a response. Until later.

Darkfeather -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/9/2013 3:04:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne It's not "thought police" to inquire about what submissives' mindsets might be - at a core level. Nor is it "thought police" to inquire about what a Daddy Dom who engages in incest/molestation play's mindset might be, either. Have you seriously thought about these questions, I mean seriously thought about them? You want subs to openly discuss what drives their core sexuality... What makes them tingle and get wet, what makes them moan and writhe in extacy at the mere thought. I know of NO woman who would do that. Next you want to discuss the mindset of incest/molestation play. Do you have any idea how personal that also is? These are the very definition of "thought police", to invade someone's inner most private feelings and thoughts, for the purpose of "weeding" out the bad or criminal.

TwoHeartsBeatOne -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/9/2013 3:13:37 PM)
Darkfeather, Okay, some good suggestions there. Thank you for those. RE: my pre-posting research. I spent a few months doing that. Perhaps not well enough to suit you, but I did my best. Perhaps you missed the post in which I said, I encourage devil's advocates to reply? Or, the one in which I said that I had gone far enough in my own research and was stuck, so it was time to just lay it out there, right or wrong, so that other points of view could be considered? I hoped to be re-directed. And, I was.

TwoHeartsBeatOne -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/9/2013 3:16:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nelee ...But the thread WILL go on for another ten pages I think you are repeating your intolerance for me, but you do realize that others want to post, too, right? So, okay, you don't like the length of the thread. What I do when I don't like something, is focus on the part I control. You have the opportunity to stop posting to lessen the length of the thread. That is where your power lies. Just a thought...

RedMagic1 -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/9/2013 3:22:44 PM)
I think it is a completely reasonable question to ask, "What percentage of daddy doms are also pedophiles?" If people get offended by a scientific question, too bad. What I see happening in this thread is that no one knows the real answer, and so people can only post about their own experience. The OP's experience is that 100% of the men she has known to identify as daddy doms were also pedophiles. The experience of other people (including me) is that there isn't a strong connection between being a daddy dom (or mommy dom) and being a pedophile. So everyone's "right" at the same time. And then the daddy doms feel attacked because they are being "accused" of being pedos, while the OP feels attacked being the emotional reactions she has had from her past are not as validated as they could be. TwoHearts, I think you're facing the following situation. The kink world is much larger than your own experiences (as I'm sure you know), but at the same time, anyone who wants a kink relationship with you will have to be compatible with your personal baggage that is a result of your experiences. I think it's totally reasonable of you to decide something like, "I can see how daddy/little relationships might work for some other people, because not everyone disagreeing with me in this thread can be a pedo. But at the same time, I'm going to steer clear of daddy doms in my personal life, because of my past."

TwoHeartsBeatOne -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/9/2013 3:24:42 PM)
LilSquaw, Thank you! Since my OP questions have been answered, I've been trying to do two things. First, formulate my question in better terms now that I have better tools to work with. Second, to give new posters a response, if only out of respect for the time they took to post. That is taking a long time as many posters haven't read the thread and are still responding to the OP. Not complaining, I figure I dug my own grave there and I'm dealing with the consequences. That's why it took me until page 9 to show that I've seen how all of my original questions were invalid. I was responding to others while it quickly grew. I couldn't keep up. Plus, keep in mind, that I was allowing my mind to be changed and that takes a bit of time to process. I've been remiss in telling you, specifically, that I've learned a lot from your posts. Thank you! :) I know you found me to be difficult, so all the more reason for me to be grateful.

Darkfeather -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/9/2013 3:30:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne Darkfeather, Okay, some good suggestions there. Thank you for those. RE: my pre-posting research. I spent a few months doing that. Perhaps not well enough to suit you, but I did my best. Perhaps you missed the post in which I said, I encourage devil's advocates to reply? Or, the one in which I said that I had gone far enough in my own research and was stuck, so it was time to just lay it out there, right or wrong, so that other points of view could be considered? I hoped to be re-directed. And, I was. I am not trying to browbeat you or criticize you. You asked for help and I am offering some. Take what I say to heart or not, up to you. First of all, you can never do enough research. Why, because you came here with an idea. It changed a bit, but your core ideals seem to remain. That is perfectly fine, you are more than entitled to your opinions. But in a debate, one that you yourself have presented in an open forum, you have to be able to back up YOUR side. You simply cannot continue to ask for validation of your core beliefs as questions from others, because those that do not agree with you will and have been disputing it. And instead of presenting a valid contrary argument, which happens in a debate, you simply ask to rely on supporting questions. This is what gets people frustrated, because they want a reason for YOUR side of the argument. Instead, you present your questions. What they expect is your contrary argument, your facts supporting your core belief.

Darkfeather -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/9/2013 3:33:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 I think it is a completely reasonable question to ask, "What percentage of daddy doms are also pedophiles?" If people get offended by a scientific question, too bad. What I see happening in this thread is that no one knows the real answer, and so people can only post about their own experience. The OP's experience is that 100% of the men she has known to identify as daddy doms were also pedophiles. The experience of other people (including me) is that there isn't a strong connection between being a daddy dom (or mommy dom) and being a pedophile. So everyone's "right" at the same time. And then the daddy doms feel attacked because they are being "accused" of being pedos, while the OP feels attacked being the emotional reactions she has had from her past are not as validated as they could be. TwoHearts, I think you're facing the following situation. The kink world is much larger than your own experiences (as I'm sure you know), but at the same time, anyone who wants a kink relationship with you will have to be compatible with your personal baggage that is a result of your experiences. I think it's totally reasonable of you to decide something like, "I can see how daddy/little relationships might work for some other people, because not everyone disagreeing with me in this thread can be a pedo. But at the same time, I'm going to steer clear of daddy doms in my personal life, because of my past." Oh good lord... Ok, how about this? What percentage of Catholic Priests are pedophiles? what percentage of High School Coaches? First Grade Math Teachers? Sanitation Workers... See, the question itself is stupid, and only singles out one aspect of the kink community

TheLilSquaw -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/9/2013 3:37:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne I've been remiss in telling you, specifically, that I've learned a lot from your posts. Thank you! :) I know you found me to be difficult, so all the more reason for me to be grateful. I don't find YOU difficult. I do find your generalizations, assumptions, and projecting difficult only in the sense that I am / have tried to respond to you out of my personal truths in the matter not my emotions regarding your statements. That is the thing. You are looking for FACTS. Which with the questions you are asking is nearly if not totally impossible to get IMO. You will get peoples personal truths or believes. Which obviously vary.

TwoHeartsBeatOne -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/9/2013 3:38:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darkfeather quote: ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne It's not "thought police" to inquire about what submissives' mindsets might be - at a core level. Nor is it "thought police" to inquire about what a Daddy Dom who engages in incest/molestation play's mindset might be, either. Have you seriously thought about these questions, I mean seriously thought about them? You want subs to openly discuss what drives their core sexuality... That was just an example, chosen because there already is a lot of written material about submissives. It's an open forum. Submissives, as well as others, may choose to be involved, or not. What makes them tingle and get wet, what makes them moan and writhe in extacy at the mere thought. I know of NO woman who would do that. You just "went there" in your own mind. BTW, submissives include both men and women. I may be new-ish but I caught on to that one very early on. Like, day 1. I guess in some ways, we can all be slow at times. Next you want to discuss the mindset of incest/molestation play. Do you have any idea how personal that also is? Again, only those who wish to contribute, will contribute. The others won't. Either way, I think both you and I... we'll live. These are the very definition of "thought police", to invade someone's inner most private feelings and thoughts, for the purpose of "weeding" out the bad or criminal. You are sounding like a movie... you know the one, or two? When you say, "invade," are you supposing that my ability to ask a question has some potential power to enter someone's mind? Silly Darkfeather! Surely you josh!LOL

TwoHeartsBeatOne -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/9/2013 3:48:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darkfeather quote: ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne Darkfeather, Okay, some good suggestions there. Thank you for those. RE: my pre-posting research. I spent a few months doing that. Perhaps not well enough to suit you, but I did my best. Perhaps you missed the post in which I said, I encourage devil's advocates to reply? Or, the one in which I said that I had gone far enough in my own research and was stuck, so it was time to just lay it out there, right or wrong, so that other points of view could be considered? I hoped to be re-directed. And, I was. I am not trying to browbeat you or criticize you. You asked for help and I am offering some. Take what I say to heart or not, up to you. First of all, you can never do enough research. Why, because you came here with an idea. It changed a bit, but your core ideals seem to remain. That is perfectly fine, you are more than entitled to your opinions. But in a debate, one that you yourself have presented in an open forum, you have to be able to back up YOUR side. You simply cannot continue to ask for validation of your core beliefs as questions from others, because those that do not agree with you will and have been disputing it. And instead of presenting a valid contrary argument, which happens in a debate, you simply ask to rely on supporting questions. This is what gets people frustrated, because they want a reason for YOUR side of the argument. Instead, you present your questions. What they expect is your contrary argument, your facts supporting your core belief. The first mistake I made was in how I asked my OP questions. Apparently, some understood, but many did not. So, you are one of the ones who read it and thought I had "core beliefs" and an argument. I had neither. I had, fear and confusion. Thus, no argument from me. I experienced a perfect storm of my own new-ishness, along with a deceitful sick man who used my submission to him toward wicked ends, and a mentor who talked to me at great length about Daddy Doms but never once mentioned age play things. I didn't even know if there was something akin to... say our U.S. Constitution in the BDSM world. I wondered if there was some way, other than talking with local BDSM friends, if there was a central agreement of some sort. You know, I figured I need to learn more, so I asked. Replies seem to say there is nothing like that. It's a decide for yourself kind of deal. Okay. Got it.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/9/2013 3:49:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darkfeather Oh good lord... Ok, how about this? What percentage of Catholic Priests are pedophiles? what percentage of High School Coaches? First Grade Math Teachers? Sanitation Workers... See, the question itself is stupid, and only singles out one aspect of the kink community Those questions you just asked aren't stupid at all. A larger percentage of Catholic priests are pedophiles than sanitation workers. The deep question is why? Just greater opportunity (more access)? Or some other reason? Also, a Catholic MD once told me that the rate of pedophilia among Protestant ministers was higher than the rate among Catholic priests. I've never verified this. But if you can't see why questions like that are interesting, not stupid, then you're posting with an agenda.

Darkfeather -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/9/2013 4:00:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne That was just an example, chosen because there already is a lot of written material about submissives. It's an open forum. Submissives, as well as others, may choose to be involved, or not. Well then, prove me wrong. You asked the question, be the first to answer it. Tell us all what your core mindset is about being a little girl in a Daddy Dom relationship? quote: ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne You just "went there" in your own mind. BTW, submissives include both men and women. I may be new-ish but I caught on to that one very early on. Like, day 1. I guess in some ways, we can all be slow at times. I went there because unless I missed it, there have been mostly female submissives responses. If I have missed any males I apologize now quote: ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne Again, only those who wish to contribute, will contribute. The others won't. Either way, I think both you and I... we'll live. Well, I can't wait to see any incest/molestation Daddy Doms start posting their inner most thoughts in this forum... quote: ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne You are sounding like a movie... you know the one, or two? When you say, "invade," are you supposing that my ability to ask a question has some potential power to enter someone's mind? Silly Darkfeather! Surely you josh!LOL I am not suggesting that you possess that power, just the mindset. While you may have noble ideals, your practice is very Orwellian. Think of it this way... If a man, just out of prison having served his 20 years for child molestation and having fully been rehabilitated by society, then meets you with all your good intentions and group meetings and self help seminars, is he better or worse? Would he have lived happier a normal quiet life at home in anonymity, trying to put his life back together on his own, at his own pace, or with all the "help" you (not you literally) would give him?

Darkfeather -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/9/2013 4:01:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 quote: ORIGINAL: Darkfeather Oh good lord... Ok, how about this? What percentage of Catholic Priests are pedophiles? what percentage of High School Coaches? First Grade Math Teachers? Sanitation Workers... See, the question itself is stupid, and only singles out one aspect of the kink community Those questions you just asked aren't stupid at all. A larger percentage of Catholic priests are pedophiles than sanitation workers. The deep question is why? Just greater opportunity (more access)? Or some other reason? Also, a Catholic MD once told me that the rate of pedophilia among Protestant ministers was higher than the rate among Catholic priests. I've never verified this. But if you can't see why questions like that are interesting, not stupid, then you're posting with an agenda. Hear that sound... That was my point buzzing right over your head

RedMagic1 -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/9/2013 4:06:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darkfeather Hear that sound... That was my point buzzing right over your head The feeling is mutual, Sir/Ma'am. I'm off the thread for the evening. Have a great night.[:)]

Darkfeather -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/9/2013 4:11:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 quote: ORIGINAL: Darkfeather Hear that sound... That was my point buzzing right over your head The feeling is mutual, Sir/Ma'am. I'm off the thread for the evening. Have a great night.[:)] Wow, such a witty comeback, I think I am stunned... If I actually understood it. Cause how does one feel a sound buzzing over one's head?

TwoHeartsBeatOne -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/9/2013 4:12:39 PM)
A few have suggested that I post a condensed version of my "conclusions post." My 7 OP questions have been answered to my satisfaction. I did not take any one person's point of view above any others. These conclusions were made as a result of seeing a consensus. The first 6 questions are either "No," "invalid," or "irrelevant." The seventh question is answered best, I think, with EDUCATION. Thank you, Everyone! I will come back now and then to reply to latecomers.

littlewonder -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/9/2013 4:21:41 PM)
quote: If it were a vanilla situation, I would have felt certain. Being new-ish to BDSM ways of thinking - you know, I still have so much to learn, I was uncertain. So, I read, I deliberately made more friends who were littles and as LadyPact just said, there were no definitive answers. THIS is where you fucked up. How you think of a relationship is no different in bdsm than in vanilla. If someone is doing bad things in vanilla they are doing bad things in bdsm. They are not somehow different. There's nothing to be uncertain about. If you wouldn't accept it in vanilla, why the hell would you accept it in bdsm???? In the future you may want to hold on tight to that little bit of information. Otherwise you will make the exact same mistake again.

TwoHeartsBeatOne -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/9/2013 4:41:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder quote: If it were a vanilla situation, I would have felt certain. Being new-ish to BDSM ways of thinking - you know, I still have so much to learn, I was uncertain. So, I read, I deliberately made more friends who were littles and as LadyPact just said, there were no definitive answers. THIS is where you fucked up. How you think of a relationship is no different in bdsm than in vanilla. If someone is doing bad things in vanilla they are doing bad things in bdsm. They are not somehow different. There's nothing to be uncertain about. If you wouldn't accept it in vanilla, why the hell would you accept it in bdsm???? Wow, lw, you said I fucked up. Class on a stick right there... not. I was deceived. I make no apology for being vulnerable - heck, even FBI profilers speak about how easy it is to be fooled by the worst criminals. But hey, if it floats your boat to gloat... knock yourself out. Me, I've got better feelings to feel than to even think of other's mistakes, failures, or imperfections. But, that's just me. To answer your question, consider the context. In vanilla, hitting one's significant other, is illegal. In BDSM, the same actions, hold different meanings, so hitting a partner in BDSM, is pleasure ( or pain), but either way, it's consensual. In my mind, that means distinctions must be made between BDSM and vanilla. Again, that's just me. I'm fairly certain where I fucked up with you, was in expressing my opinion that "some people are excited by the look of pre-pubescent genitalia (as in, waxed or shaven)." Your tone changed right then. One might say you got "prickly or bristly." [/b] In the future you may want to hold on tight to that little bit of information. Otherwise you will make the exact same mistake again.

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