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RE: Training - 2/9/2013 1:16:05 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Sorry LP, I should've been more specific. I am totally in favor of training when it is actual training and yes, any high-protocol group will likely have the need for some actual training... leather is a common example.

Anyone who has credible answers to the sort of questions I asked is actually planning on training and then I think "training" is the right word to describe it.

Oside's comment, in my mind, explains why a perfectly serviceable word has gotten such a bad reputation.

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Training - 2/9/2013 1:19:09 PM   
theshytype


Posts: 1600
Status: offline 		Doesn't bother me at all.
When I hear training, I just think repetitive actions that will result in a positive reaction.
Training wheels first come to mind.
In all honesty, teaching bothers me more than training. To me, teaching sounds a bit condescending.

(in reply to chatterbox24)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Training - 2/9/2013 1:36:18 PM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: thracia
Wow. I had thought it a wholly innocuous word.

It would be except for Oside's comment:

99% of the people use it as an euphemism for "tie you up, beat you and fuck you". They're not training you for anything. They're using it to make submissive think that they need to do it in order to be a good submissive, when the reality is that it's just kinky sex.

Generally it's pretty funny when you ask one of these trainers what, exactly, they are planning on training? How will they measure improvement? How have they determined there is a skills gap which requires training to start with? There's seldom any detail which is a sure fire sign it isn't training.


I think the above is pretty spot on.
This actually made me think of a movie I just
saw called "The Pet" in it the master/owner guy
used a electric shock collar to "train" his petgirl,
but the only time he used it was when the girl
was sleeping to wake her up in the morning...
How does that train something??



< Message edited by ARIES83 -- 2/9/2013 1:41:00 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Training - 2/9/2013 1:41:46 PM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko

To train: to develop or form the habits, thoughts, or behavior of by discipline and instruction.

Goodness, what's there to be offended about? :)



Yeah, it's structure, basically, some people need a little more, some less, some resent it entirely, physically and psychologically, w/respect to muscle memory, and other forms of episodic memory, it can be vary intimate.

I agree, if somebody comes out with it right away, you can expect they're gonna train you to act out their fantasy du jour, and training itself can be the fantasy, there's a whole Svengali thing going on there, and it's acting out on authoritarian/serviant roles. But most people I've talked to that have been trained, know that you aren't being trained to be a submissive, you're being trained to be his or her submissive, i.e., specific tastes and preferences, etc..

Some submissives enjoy that sort of being a 'blank slate", a canvass for your desires, others have very specific fantasies about what it is is and how to do it, and I'm not even gonna get into the whole notion of topping from the bottom, and who's real and who isn't, on a human level it is a mutual fantasy, ideally - whatever spins your propeller baby, it's why when you find somebody to click with it's like magic.



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RE: Training - 2/9/2013 1:57:10 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24

Are there any subs who dont mind this word or description?
Are there Doms on here that use that word?


If you take offense to the word please describe why, and if you do not , why not?


No I don't take offense. Master has trained me to do many things...not just bdsm stuff but life stuff; how he likes his coffee and tea, how to iron his clothing the way he wants, and all kinds of other stuff.

I have trained him to do things as well, such as with computers since he's not as knowledgeable.

We all train one another all the time if we care about them.

But personally, when I hear the word "training" online, it usually does not mean what I stated above. It usually ends up being an excuse to have kinky sex with someone. It's just a line to hook someone into doing what they want, especially gullible newbies.


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RE: Training - 2/9/2013 2:10:06 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

Sorry LP, I should've been more specific. I am totally in favor of training when it is actual training and yes, any high-protocol group will likely have the need for some actual training... leather is a common example.

Anyone who has credible answers to the sort of questions I asked is actually planning on training and then I think "training" is the right word to describe it.

Oside's comment, in my mind, explains why a perfectly serviceable word has gotten such a bad reputation.
Ah, no need to be. I actually show up on these kinds of threads so people can see that what a lot of people have tried turning the term into isn't really how it goes. In fact, I happen to agree with you that as soon as somebody tries to bullshit another with the line that they are going to train that the first question back should be to ask trained in what. If there is no skill associated with the answer, that's probably not the person they are going to learn a lot from. Well, maybe with the exception of teaching them what a fool they can be.




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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Training - 2/9/2013 2:10:41 PM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline 		fast reply

Like most I think it comes down to context. I have no problems with 'I will spend some time training you in formal high-protocol service' or 'I'd like you to be able to take a caning without needing to be restrained, so we're going to do some training over the next few weeks to help you get there' or even 'I'm sending you for some first-aid training'.

If it is a specific skill or knowledge base we are working on, and it is personalised to my abilities and the needs of our situation, all well and good.

But I've seen lots of people who use 'training' in the vaguest possible sense ie 'I am willing to train your slaves' or 'my thing is training, I am looking for a sub to train until she is ready to move on and find a Master'. No slave or sub needs general training like this; it would be useless as the next dominant would have different requirements. It often comes across as someone deliberately targeting newcomers by suggesting if they don't have some prior training no-one will want them. But they're just the trainer, so there's no personal commitment. The type of person I am talking about can usually not specify what the training entails beyond something like 'I will train you to be obedient' or 'to be a better sub'. Well 'better' is subjective, and I'm not a puppy, I don't need training to do as I am told, I just need to find someone who is worthy of obeying.

I could respect these marvellous freelance sub-trainers if they could at least justify what skills they were going to impart. If someone could say 'I will teach you leather protocols, give you a 101 in safety for bondage and impact play, teach you how to properly care for leather and latex, have you develop a good organisational system for the chores and teach you 50 never-fail recipes' at least they are making an effort to specify what 'training' means. I suspect, however, that in the majority of cases training means 'I'll fuck your ass a few times and tell you that good subs just take it'.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Training - 2/9/2013 3:27:10 PM   
lizi


Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		Within the context of a stranger using the word training to mean BDSM type activities, I generally have a negative knee jerk reaction. It's instant repulsion. Within the context I described, it is inevitably used to gain the trainer sexual access to the person he/she wants to train.

These "trainers" don't even want to take the time to train the object of their attention how to sexually please them, they just want access to the holes. There is no teaching in this context, simply one sided sexual gratification offered under a manipulative pretext designed to make the trainee think that they are doing something more noble than just fucking a stranger. It's usually used as a false pretense - I personally have a very hard time with dishonesty.

Within the context of a relationship I'd view training as a positive thing that I'd be interested in participating in. Outside of a relationship I'm all for training in any skill set that i"d like to add to my life.

(in reply to chatterbox24)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Training - 2/9/2013 4:18:28 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders
The type of person I am talking about can usually not specify what the training entails beyond something like 'I will train you to be obedient'

That is my personal favorite. Obedience requires no training. What it DOES require is self-discipline, commitment, honor, and a fair number of other base attributes. But I wouldn't be married to anyone who didn't possess those anyway. I tell Carol to do something. She does it or not. The whole obedience thing seems pretty simple. Then again, few sub/slaves want it to be that simple because in that simplistic view being "totally obedient" gets really hard.

quote:

I could respect these marvellous freelance sub-trainers if they could at least justify what skills they were going to impart.

I'm stealing LP's line above. I'm going to teach them how foolish they can be. I just need to figure out my rate structure and I'm all set.



_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Training - 2/12/2013 9:58:07 AM   
Dyfrynt


Posts: 202
Joined: 4/19/2011
Status: offline 		Perhaps another way to look at it is the intent of the trainer. This is a very telling way of understanding what is behind the words. For those going into a potential relationship, the Dom/Master should be able to answer this question to your satisfaction. The more generic the response, the more cautious one should be about going forward. The more specific the response, the more one can assess whether this is the Dom/Master for them.

In a world rife with less and less ironclad definition of words; more and more an attitude of the-word-means-what-I-say-it-means, the only responsible answer is what does the word mean to you and what does it mean to the person you are talking with.

As an example, I know a Master who is a control freak. His idea of the word training is to remove all control the slave has of her own. Is this person a "bad" Master? For someone who desires a give and take relationship, it would be a disaster. For someone whose desire is to have all decisions stripped from them though?

If you have been in this lifestyle a long time, you know that there is practically no limit to what any one individual might want. No matter how extreme, it is likely someone's "kink".

The other side of the "intent" equation is even more important. Does the Master's intent have the slave's wellbeing at heart? This is not so easily answered in words; it is primarily answered through actions. It often takes more than a little bit of time to get a clear picture. In the example I gave above, if the Master's intent was to do what was in the best interest of his slave, that would not necessarily be a bad thing.

But if this Master's intent was primarily to take control, regardless of the wellbeing of the slave, I define that as an extremely unhealthy relationship. In the former, his intention is for the benefit of both of them; in the latter he is only interested in the benefit to himself.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Training - 2/12/2013 11:39:41 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Training in this context means something. I have had DM training. I have been trained as an EMT in the past. I have been trained to race cars in the past. Training in those instances means something. Training in the manner many of us have heard on the other side or in other bdsm realms usually means we get the "honor" of learning how some stranger wants his cock sucked, in order to evaluate us for further studies.
Whole different deal.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
It would be except for Oside's comment:

99% of the people use it as an euphemism for "tie you up, beat you and fuck you". They're not training you for anything. They're using it to make submissive think that they need to do it in order to be a good submissive, when the reality is that it's just kinky sex.

Generally it's pretty funny when you ask one of these trainers what, exactly, they are planning on training? How will they measure improvement? How have they determined there is a skills gap which requires training to start with? There's seldom any detail which is a sure fire sign it isn't training.
Do you want the full list or the general idea?

DM training. There's actually a lot more to training somebody to be a DM for a public play space than "hey, that person said red". There's also first aid, how to check equipment for safety, acclimating people who are new to the space, preventative measures, etc, etc.

The leather/protocol stuff are various areas. Some of it is about things like formal service. Other parts are things like leather care that a person might not be familiar with. Differences between private and public protocol for various events. Stuff like that.





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pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Training - 2/12/2013 11:59:29 AM   
TAFKAA


Posts: 382
Joined: 1/5/2013
Status: offline 		Generally speaking "training" is much like "under consideration" - artifice used to mislead subs who know no better. Much of what you see in profiles is utter fucking nonsense.

(in reply to chatterbox24)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Training - 2/12/2013 12:13:19 PM   
intellisubbear


Posts: 26
Joined: 2/11/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

it is a way for guys to claim they want a relationship while not actually having one, but getting their cocks sucked off on demand anyway.


Damn guys. They're on to us!

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Training - 2/12/2013 12:54:21 PM   
lilcracker


Posts: 243
Joined: 4/14/2012
Status: offline 		I don't mind it---and nah I don't find it offensive. I just don't use the term in the confines of our relationship---he teaches.

< Message edited by lilcracker -- 2/12/2013 12:55:02 PM >

(in reply to chatterbox24)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Training - 2/12/2013 1:25:58 PM   
HarryVanWinkle


Posts: 1720
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline 		Fast Reply

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24

Are there any subs who dont mind this word or description?
Are there Doms on here that use that word?


If you take offense to the word please describe why, and if you do not , why not?


I believe that any successful intimate relationship, whether dom/sub or completely vanilla, involves training. What I DON'T believe is that said training is a one way street. It's not one person training the other. It's both people training each other.

I don't care if you call yourselves, "MistressGoddessQueenOfTheUniverse and "ContemptableShitEatingMaggotBeneathHerBoots", if the relationship does not fulfill the needs of BOTH people involved, it's not going to last long.

This is one of the major reasons why so many dom/sub relationships are so short-lived. We go into them thinking that only the desires of the one calling himself "dom" matter. That doesn't work.

(in reply to chatterbox24)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Training - 2/12/2013 2:30:49 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Master is in the process of training my body to accept pain again like it used to when I was younger. He has trained me to do certain poses that he wants to see me in. He trains me in education by making me read certain things and commenting on it or by training me to do some of my classes. He always seems to be training me to do things. I don't see the word training as something negative. I mean, at my job I am being trained to work with Sharepoint. At my former job, I was trained in how probate estates. Unless you have never been shown how to do something by another individual, you are always being trained even if it's how to react to certain people in certain ways.


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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Training - 2/12/2013 7:29:40 PM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		Yeah, you can make or break any habit in 30 days, that's all miltec stuff.

So there are other applications besides pain endurance.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Training - 2/13/2013 2:28:53 AM   
Aurora2012


Posts: 2
Joined: 8/12/2012
Status: offline 		one doesnt need to train one to be something they know they all ready are. With CPP it is the learning of the higher levels that one may reach for from within their needs. wants, and desires to better serve their M/M/D's. It's more of a sharing of the minds in all that is agreed to want to learn by the s/s.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Training - 2/13/2013 4:11:57 AM   
MissSkyee


Posts: 3
Joined: 1/12/2013
Status: offline 		The notion of anyone being able to train anyone unless they have greater knowledge about something is stupid.

In the bdsm context at a literal, and most boring level, it could mean they are
- training you to their tastes in that they have greater knowledge of their tastes
- or that they are just giving you the basics of bdsm safety etc, or bdsm related culture if you didn't know (but seriously when it comes to protocol pretty much anyone who has read bdsm porn is across this stuff it's not rocket science. You're not going to get a phd in this shit. seriously.]

The more interesting meaning, however is the symbolic and erotically charged connotation of using the word 'training'. Just because it's exciting and taboo to let another 'train' you. It's the symbolism that is powerful, exciting and fun. When people try to make it literally true it is just tedious, boring and moronic.

(in reply to Aurora2012)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Training - 2/13/2013 5:44:57 AM   
LoveSlider


Posts: 52
Joined: 8/22/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24

Are there any subs who dont mind this word or description?
Are there Doms on here that use that word?


If you take offense to the word please describe why, and if you do not , why not?


I don't mind the word. And it would take a lot more than a word to offend me.

With regards kink... This stuff, I do for fun. When playing with a girl I am not training her, it is more like we are exploring each other's mind and body.

Some other people might want to "train" their acquaintance into a certain way of doing things. Fair enough, have fun. But most of the time you hear the word, it's bollocks.

(in reply to chatterbox24)
Profile   Post #: 40
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