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subs and mirrors...? imagery vs. visionry - 6/20/2006 3:08:50 PM

PookBaccus

Posts: 38
Joined: 3/22/2006
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When specifically a submissive, looks into a mirror and sees somone unfamilliar, what does that mean?
How does one help her bring similarity to what she expects to see and what it is she is seeing?
I asked a question earlier and had many good responses concerning self imagery.
This if different, is more like self visionry.

A woman looks at a mirror and has an emotional response " my hips are too fat ". This is different. This sub looks in the mirror and doesn't always recognize , at a glance, the reflection as being herself.

So she knows shes a good person, helps in the community, has goals and achieves them, but doesn't expect the reflection she sees in the mirror. Her vision of what should be in the mirror is more "elfin and etherial".
She is contracted and important to ME so I'd like to bring her mind into better accordance with reality.
I am turning this sub into a Woman. Previously she had been used by others as something to be abused. Excuse MY prose, something is often mis alligned between translating MY thoughts to english. It's the Neanderthal heritage.

Post #: 1

RE: subs and mirrors...? imagery vs. visionry - 6/20/2006 6:43:55 PM

kiska

Posts: 160
Joined: 11/17/2005
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

Your post really confused me ...

I look in the mirror and sometimes I think ... I wish my hair were a little longer or I wish I could loose a little weight but I always know its me ... Now, I have had a moment where I looked in the mirror and was shocked at myself because of what I saw ... I'd been particularly self-destructive and it was a shock to me just how much damage I'd done ...

She wants to see herself as more elfin and ethereal ... Soooo she wants to change her physical image into something tiny, cute, fragile ... Elfin and ethereal? Or what? Because you make it sound as though its a state of mind thing but it seems more like a physical thing.

I'm confused. :)

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RE: subs and mirrors...? imagery vs. visionry - 6/20/2006 6:51:06 PM

desertdancer

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I'm sorry I'm confused too. You mean your girl looks in the mirror and sees an elf? Is your girl having more issues then low self esteem, meaning is she disassociating herself? Does she need more care then you can give her or am I just lost in the translation?

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RE: subs and mirrors...? imagery vs. visionry - 6/20/2006 9:36:33 PM

PookBaccus

Posts: 38
Joined: 3/22/2006
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I do tend to be confusing and it is in the translation.
She might be disassociating. It isn't that she wants to be more elfish, it is that she is expecting to see her reflection as more elfish. MY level of care is the best she has experienced and has been quite beneficial to her. The picture of herself in her minds eye is different then the reflection in the mirror. The picture in her minds eye is in her opinion better then the reflection in the mirror. So since her imagery in her head concerning what she looks like is better then what she sees of herself when looking in the mirror, would that mean she has lower then reality self esteem or higher then reality self esteem?

(in reply to desertdancer)

Post #: 4

RE: subs and mirrors...? imagery vs. visionry - 6/20/2006 9:47:24 PM

akisha

Posts: 2071
Joined: 6/25/2005
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I've looked in the mirror and swore my mother was looking back at me, that scared the hell out of me. *s*

Ok seriously

No one preceives themselves exactly as they are. No one preceives another exactly the same way as anyone else.

I'm not sure what you mean by she doesn't see herself. Whom does she see?

She needs to accept herself as who she is and learn to like that person. If there are physical aspects that she dislikes then work on changing them. Some things are easier to change then others. But the healthiest and most reasonable thing to do is learn to say " This is me and I like who I am"

edited because some lil gremlin keeps switching the keys around on my keyboard

< Message edited by akisha -- 6/20/2006 9:48:42 PM >

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(in reply to PookBaccus)

Post #: 5

RE: subs and mirrors...? imagery vs. visionry - 6/20/2006 10:25:02 PM

denika

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Joined: 8/30/2005
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It could be that she has set a higher expectation for herslef than what she is perceiving at the moment? I will be the first to admit that I have a very skewed image of myself, I don't like mirrors or at least I'm not to fond of the image it's refelecting back. Self worth and self image should be two seperate things but for many of us it's not.

When I was a teenager and had kissed another girl for the first time I remember looking in the mirror afterwords expecting to see some mark that would give me away (aside from the smeared lipstick *g*) something that screamed out LESBIAN!!! but the only thing looking back was me, nothing else, no neon signs.

On one of my really bad days Rob had me stand naked infront of a mirror and list off all the things about myself that I liked, it's easier to see the negative than the positive. It sounds like your girl has come from a very negative background, it will probably be a challenge to get rid of the poor self imagery, this I know from personal experience. Get barked at once and it stays with you for life.

lol, Rob now reserts to threatening me with a phone call to Knight when I get particularily negative, *s* it's very effective.

I am worth it...
denika

(in reply to PookBaccus)

Post #: 6

RE: subs and mirrors...? imagery vs. visionry - 6/21/2006 6:10:18 AM

desertdancer

Posts: 1095
Joined: 5/12/2006
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Maybe you could redirect her when she is looking in the mirror and even outside from looking into it. Denika is onto something having to list off things she liked bout her image. Maybe when she is in front of the mirror and expecting to see a more elven image, you could point out her eyes, and the shape of them, tell her how they sparkle and glow, or her lips and the shape of them, tell her how soft they are. I 'd say make sure you describe what your seeing, so that she has to pull her attention away from what SHE'S seeing to try to see what you are.

It does sound like your giving her very good care. I hope you find a good answer here or anywhere so you can continue to help her.

Best wishes,
dancer

Edited for my poor early morning typing skills

< Message edited by desertdancer -- 6/21/2006 6:20:34 AM >

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Post #: 7

RE: subs and mirrors...? imagery vs. visionry - 6/21/2006 8:47:37 AM

Submotive

Posts: 440
Joined: 9/9/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PookBaccus

When specifically a submissive, looks into a mirror and sees somone unfamilliar, what does that mean?
How does one help her bring similarity to what she expects to see and what it is she is seeing?
I asked a question earlier and had many good responses concerning self imagery.
This if different, is more like self visionry.

A woman looks at a mirror and has an emotional response " my hips are too fat ". This is different. This sub looks in the mirror and doesn't always recognize , at a glance, the reflection as being herself.

So she knows shes a good person, helps in the community, has goals and achieves them, but doesn't expect the reflection she sees in the mirror. Her vision of what should be in the mirror is more "elfin and etherial".
She is contracted and important to ME so I'd like to bring her mind into better accordance with reality.
I am turning this sub into a Woman. Previously she had been used by others as something to be abused. Excuse MY prose, something is often mis alligned between translating MY thoughts to english. It's the Neanderthal heritage.

Sounds to me like your girl needs some professional help. Or it could be just that her mind image of herself and her physical self don't match.

_____________________________

Owned by Scotch Master

i would rather continue alone than be permitted to show only parts of myself to my Beloved.

If you're not living as you would like to today, when are you going to start?

(in reply to PookBaccus)

Post #: 8

RE: subs and mirrors...? imagery vs. visionry - 6/21/2006 2:05:25 PM

irishbynature

Posts: 551
Joined: 5/11/2006
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Hum...I still didn't understand the OP. Sounds like disassociation, perhaps?

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What seems nasty, painful, or evil, can become a source of beauty, joy, and strength, for those who have the vision to recognize it as such. Henry Miller

(in reply to Submotive)

Post #: 9

RE: subs and mirrors...? imagery vs. visionry - 6/21/2006 3:23:57 PM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

She could just relate more to her spiritual self than her physical self. She might just need to realise that our bodies are just suitcases we inhabit for awhile, what our suitcase looks like is irrelevant and doesnt stop us expressing our spirit.If she looks in the mirror and sees the suitcase instead of the spirit it might help her put things in perspective and stop confusing the two, they would stop seeming to condradict each other. Then she would start enjoying being in a body and relax and just play.

If she is incapable of that reaslisation, you might want her to go seek professional help, dissassociation from reality can mean some serious issues.

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Different Strokes for Different Folks

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Post #: 10

RE: subs and mirrors...? imagery vs. visionry - 6/21/2006 11:56:18 PM

Estring

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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This may sound strange, but why not keep her from looking into mirrors for awhile, since that seems to upset her. And she probably needs some professional help.

< Message edited by Estring -- 6/21/2006 11:57:51 PM >

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Post #: 11

RE: subs and mirrors...? imagery vs. visionry - 6/22/2006 1:36:29 AM

fullofgrace

Posts: 395
Joined: 3/24/2006
From: fl, usa
Status: offline

it seems like she might have some form of body dysmorphic disorder.

i am similar, to some extent, in that i don't recognize my reflection. i mean, i know it's supposed to be me, but i don't KNOW how i see myself, so looking at my face in the mirror, it doesn't feel like i'm looking at myself.

i don't think this is a particularly uncommon thing. however, if it's an extreme for her, it would be good to have her visit a counselor, perhaps, or check into treating dissociation (which i am prone to under other circumstances) or body dysmorphic disorder (a condition where people's view of their physical selves is grossly distorted).

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RE: subs and mirrors...? imagery vs. visionry - 6/22/2006 4:07:38 AM

bandit25

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Joined: 6/18/2005
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Sorry to disagree fullofgrace, but I think it is somewhat uncommon. I mean, at times, we all look in the mirror and think "Damn! I look like that?" which can be either good or bad, but to not recognize one's self?

To the OP...I read your other thread. It sounds like your girl prolly needs a level of help you may be not qualified to give to her. I mean no one really looks like an elf or even truly elven. (I think it's the popularity of the Lord of the Rings).

(in reply to fullofgrace)

Post #: 13

RE: subs and mirrors...? imagery vs. visionry - 6/22/2006 10:44:56 AM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

It sounds like early dissociation rather than BDD (which is focusing on a perceived physical flaw). And actually, keeping her away from mirrors wouldn't help. It actually reinforces that the person they see in the mirror is not them.

Dissociation can lead into more serious disorders.Chronic defensive dissociation may lead to serious dysfunction in daily life. Continuing dissociation may result in a series of separate entities, or mental states, which may eventually take on identities of their own gradually growing into DID.

She needs professional help.

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The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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Post #: 14

RE: subs and mirrors...? imagery vs. visionry - 6/22/2006 2:18:23 PM

PookBaccus

Posts: 38
Joined: 3/22/2006
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I'd like to thank everyone for their input on this thread. It appears there is no better place to aquire the opinions of slaves and submissives the on the 'ask a Master list. I do appreciate your insights VERY much.
She has done counceling . Years of counceling.
It did keep her from the precipous of having her personality split into unique and distinct entities. That was years ago.
But the voices have continued unabaited until I did what I do.
Fullofgrace ~ your post sounds a lot like the experience MY sub is experiencing. I looked at your Bio and on 8-9 out of 10 points it sounds as though you and MY sub are living the same lives.
For MY sub it's out of the hands of conventional therapy (wish she'd co-operate with them but now she won't). Years of opinion damned up again'st the bridge.
It's on ME to be the one to help now. We've come a long way. longlonglonglong way. Less then 2 months in MY dominion and for the first time in over 2 decade's she can see the face and eyes of the .... scourge. His voice and the voices of her selves has stopped. When she presented herself to ME she was mentally a startrek Vulcan. Now she feels emotions and sensations and makes realizations by using both halves of her brain. Penmanship is different and emediately after I awoke the shutdown half of her brain her ass wiggled like a woman for the first time in her life as she walked. A myriad of effects have occured. Well thanks for letting ME blog.
I find every bit of info I'm getting on this thread useful.
Please keep it flowing.
P.s. I owe word~fame. I credit John Warren and his book " The Loving Dominent " for showing ME the mode to heal with the art of Domination. I don't think HE had a chapter assigned to healing, but in the schematic of Methodology-Modality-Intent, from his book I glimmered the modality.
Thanks Mr. Warren. Put a notch on your quirt, you helped bring at least one girl back from the brink.
Enough from ME for now, everyone. "Your turn!"

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 15

RE: subs and mirrors...? imagery vs. visionry - 6/22/2006 2:33:39 PM

kiska

Posts: 160
Joined: 11/17/2005
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

Was she literally a Startrack Vulcan or is that a metaphor for saying she was out of touch with her emotional side?

I'm not trying to be a smartass. Its just, you use a lot of metaphors ... So I seek clarification.

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I speak my mind because it hurts to bite my tongue ...

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RE: subs and mirrors...? imagery vs. visionry - 6/22/2006 3:17:47 PM

PookBaccus

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Joined: 3/22/2006
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she was out of touch with her emotional side.
Thank you for asking for clarification.

Metaphores and parables, it must be the KJV in Me.

(in reply to kiska)

Post #: 17

RE: subs and mirrors...? imagery vs. visionry - 6/22/2006 3:54:30 PM

kiska

Posts: 160
Joined: 11/17/2005
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

Well, if she literally thought of herself as a Startrek Vulcan, then I'd say there was serious dissociation going on ... But if she was out of touch with her emotional side, then I'd wonder what happened to cause her to shut that part of herself down. It does sound like she needs professional help, although you've already stated that she refuses to work with the doctors and such and that places it on you to help her ...

So now my question is, are you really qualified to help her? Being a great Dom is a wonderful thing. I wish I had a great Dom who wanted to help me heal from past hurts ... However, being someone's Dom doesn't mean you're also that person's therapist or that you have the training or qualification to be a therapist ... I hope I'm making sense.

_____________________________

I speak my mind because it hurts to bite my tongue ...

(in reply to PookBaccus)

Post #: 18

RE: subs and mirrors...? imagery vs. visionry - 6/22/2006 4:02:45 PM

justheather

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Joined: 10/4/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PookBaccus

she was out of touch with her emotional side.
Thank you for asking for clarification.

Metaphores and parables, it must be the KJV in Me.

What I meant to say was: I don't have anything to say.

< Message edited by justheather -- 6/22/2006 4:05:24 PM >

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And paste me in that book you always carry.
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RE: subs and mirrors...? imagery vs. visionry - 6/22/2006 8:14:42 PM

PookBaccus

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Joined: 3/22/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kiska

Well, if she literally thought of herself as a Startrek Vulcan, then I'd say there was serious dissociation going on ... But if she was out of touch with her emotional side, then I'd wonder what happened to cause her to shut that part of herself down. It does sound like she needs professional help, although you've already stated that she refuses to work with the doctors and such and that places it on you to help her ...

So now my question is, are you really qualified to help her? Being a great Dom is a wonderful thing. I wish I had a great Dom who wanted to help me heal from past hurts ... However, being someone's Dom doesn't mean you're also that person's therapist or that you have the training or qualification to be a therapist ... I hope I'm making sense.

Yes, she was out of touch with her emotional side.

then I'd wonder what happened to cause her to shut that part of herself down

Oh the usual...

child abuse which sent things spiraling out of connectivity in a young girls mind.

I am not a trained therapist. I do have a remarkable, well even preternatural ability to positively reprogram the subconcious of women. I use the ability lovingly and wisely. I don't have credentials but many referances are available.

Should I be "doing it" or helping in this way?
I can watch wonderful people embroiled in their personal misery. The impetous is usually / almost always an effectuation caused by someone nasty, uncaring, and harmful.
I could permit them to continue to slog through life in a less then gleeful existance or I can use MY abilities to bring their mind, body, spirit, and self into a better, more positive, and true, union.

Being a great Dom is a wonderful thing.
Yes it is.

I wish I had a great Dom who wanted to help me heal from past hurts ...
I am now also publically claiming the ability to grant wishes.

However, being someone's Dom doesn't mean you're also that person's therapist or that you have the training or qualification to be a therapist ... I hope I'm making sense.

Nope I'm not trying to be a therapist. I am being a good and caring person who intimately understands how to make things better. Therapists (I don't believe) can get close enough to a person to (yes be permitted) to have control of necessary aspects of a persons 24/7 life to make the positive changes occur. Maybe they do Maybe they don't, but I know I can.

To explain in few words and a broad sense what it is I do and am doing with this sub:

First a definition:

stimuli ~
#1. be it, the way she internalizes and percieves the wind blowing across her arm
#2. be it, whether it is natural for her to use the litmus of previous events and previous peoples doctrine
#3. be it, how she values and sees herself

I am changing her modality of interaction with stimuli and the way she processes stimuli.
Concerning stimulus #1 ~ instead of processing the wind as from the north north east at apprx. 15 miles per hour with a humidity of 70% (no kidding this is how it registered in her head)
Now she senses / feels it as " MmmM.... [big stretch] it feels nice outside. I like it out here. It smells like it's going to rain."

Concerning stimulus #2 ~ <what was it? lemmee page up and check>
ah yes #2 ~ (I've gotta use a couple metaphors again kiska) she was walking through life looking at the past. When something would happen she would reflect that experience off of what had occured to her in the past, instead of percieving the situation on it's own merits and in 'The Now'. Now she relates to the world with her mind looking forward thereby not automatically replaying the past or 'old tapes' into her future.
Concerning stimulus #3 ~ (this is what this thread is about and where I and her are now.) So concensus in this thread is either
3a. a self imagery problem, not suprising there would be a problem the way others in her past (including parents) and nasty~doms have treated her.
3b. a disconnect issue, not suprising sinse she has been disconnected from the emotional half of her brain for 20umpteen years.
3c. an envisioning herself spiritually rather then physically, not suprising she has avoided or has been precluded from enjoying life in 'the here and now' so seeing her etherial being is the other way she could relate to herself.

So again everyones input has been very helpful and I do apreciate your postings.!

I have a question to the slaves and sumissives that might read this:

" MY sub I am discussing with you says her other doms (again not capitalized on purpose) she says her other doms pretty much just wanted to tie her up, hit her with a whip or something, and train her to give blowjobs... is that how Domination usually occurs? "

Now I have a statement to self serving doms and M...... I can't even type the word.

"Gentlemen /beep strike that/
"Aggresivemen, you keep taring them apart, shreading their confidance, strangling their potential, maligning their sense of hope, morphing their self imagery, disregarding their value as individuals, abusing their GOD GIVEN Spirit, and I'll lovingly and caringly put them back together again."

or

"everyone could get on the PookBaccus Love Train"

Thanx for the help everyone, keep them thoughts comin'.

PookBaccus

(in reply to kiska)

Post #: 20

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