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RE: Pope Benedict Resigning - 2/11/2013 6:53:43 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EsotericLady

That is not something that Catholics have decided. It is decided by the papacy and bishops.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Actually me too...while im no fan... I find the act of insisting that a pope is there for life, to be very sad and watching the deterioration of the last pope, was horrible...(I admired him as a man,)

I didn't, but I still found the spectacle of watching him shuffle around his balcony like an undead Popeye a little disturbing.



Where did anyone suggest that catholics decided this change???


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RE: Pope Benedict Resigning - 2/11/2013 7:09:37 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

doubt anyone couldha pressured benedict ta go. reckon its illness too.

Either that or somebody's found a photo of him as a guard at a concentration camp or the White Rose executions...

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RE: Pope Benedict Resigning - 2/11/2013 7:19:24 AM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh
doubt anyone couldha pressured benedict ta go. reckon its illness too.

Either that or somebody's found a photo of him as a guard at a concentration camp or the White Rose executions...

hey he waz just a kid at the time of joinin' one balls youth club.

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RE: Pope Benedict Resigning - 2/11/2013 8:02:31 AM   
EsotericLady


Posts: 713
Joined: 1/2/2013
Status: offline 		I used "catholics" as a word to describe those who were "lay people"...parishoners, if you will...as opposed to bishops or cardinals within the Catholic church.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: EsotericLady

That is not something that Catholics have decided. It is decided by the papacy and bishops.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Actually me too...while im no fan... I find the act of insisting that a pope is there for life, to be very sad and watching the deterioration of the last pope, was horrible...(I admired him as a man,)

I didn't, but I still found the spectacle of watching him shuffle around his balcony like an undead Popeye a little disturbing.



Where did anyone suggest that catholics decided this change???



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RE: Pope Benedict Resigning - 2/11/2013 8:25:52 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

doubt anyone couldha pressured benedict ta go. reckon its illness too.


Could easily be a combination of that and the paedophiliac nastiness, which is a long way from being dealt with and has been spectacularly badly handled so far.

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RE: Pope Benedict Resigning - 2/11/2013 8:45:56 AM   
thezeppo


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Joined: 11/15/2012
Status: offline 		Its certainly surprising news. Imagine if the new pope completely modernised the Catholic church. Gay marriage, women bishops, the whole lot. Even better, imagine if there was an actual election that all registered Catholics could vote in. Anything would be better than the next pope just being announced without any attempt at representation.

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RE: Pope Benedict Resigning - 2/11/2013 8:50:14 AM   
EsotericLady


Posts: 713
Joined: 1/2/2013
Status: offline 		QUOTE from CNN: (if you need the link, I will send as proof)

"In his statement, Pope Benedict -- who turns 86 in April -- said he had come to the certainty "that my strengths, due to an advanced age, are no longer suited to an adequate exercise of the Petrine ministry."
Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico Lombardi said Pope Benedict had the right and potentially the duty to resign."
But he stressed that the pope's decision was not because of any external pressure.
According to the National Catholic Weekly, modern popes have felt that resignation is unacceptable and could encourage factions within the church to pressure pontiffs to step down.
Canon law states that a resignation must be made freely and properly manifested and that the pope resigning must be of sound mind."

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Could easily be a combination of that and the paedophiliac nastiness, which is a long way from being dealt with and has been spectacularly badly handled so far.


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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Pope Benedict Resigning - 2/11/2013 8:54:41 AM   
Owner59


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Status: offline 		If the next leader doesn`t do something concrete and lasting about their pedophilia problem.....it will only get worse.


I`m not speaking about the perpetrators but how the leadership has traditionally and recently handled this.Criminal negligence is the nicest term I can use.


This could be an opportunity......but I`m pessimistic that the biggest most entrenched theological bureaucracy in history has the will to do the right thing.


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 2/11/2013 8:55:32 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Pope Benedict Resigning - 2/11/2013 9:15:24 AM   
EsotericLady


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Joined: 1/2/2013
Status: offline 		If the next leader doesn't do something concrete....

Well, let's see. First of all, there needs to be fessing up that this has been going on. And there has been.
Secondly, there needs to be attention to the people who were involved. And there has been.
Thirdly, there needs to be (for whatever priests may still be alive since this began) a removal of them from their office and further public contact. And there has been.
Fourth, the victims should be heard and compensated. And they have been.

Are you, in fact, a practicing Catholic? and What else would you like to see done?
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

If the next leader doesn`t do something concrete and lasting about their pedophilia problem.....it will only get worse.


I`m not speaking about the perpetrators but how the leadership has traditionally and recently handled this.Criminal negligence is the nicest term I can use.


This could be an opportunity......but I`m pessimistic that the biggest most entrenched theological bureaucracy in history has the will to do the right thing.



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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Pope Benedict Resigning - 2/11/2013 9:35:11 AM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Yes on one ,two,three and four.That`s just the start IMHO.Each and every perpetrator must be tried in a secular criminal/civil court.Let the chips fall where they may.


And the leadership who buried the abuses for decades need to lose their jobs and or also face trial in a lawful court.Anything less is giving in to evil.


I was raised Protestant in a liberal Christ-centered church in north New Jersey.


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RE: Pope Benedict Resigning - 2/11/2013 11:08:32 AM   
thezeppo


Posts: 441
Joined: 11/15/2012
Status: offline 		I was raised Catholic, but no longer practicing. Owner59 hit the nail on the head. These are criminal charges and should be treated as such. For the Catholic church to remain relevant in the coming century it really has to make some fundamental changes. It has to become much more accountable and transparent and it needs to become more progressive. My cousin is a Catholic priest and his views are very much stuck in the past. He is probably towards the conservative end of the spectrum though.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Pope Benedict Resigning - 2/11/2013 11:27:04 AM   
kdsub


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Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		The only problem with this for me Lucy is he will have too much power in picking the next Pope...I do not like his views and think to survive the church needs to change direction and become more liberal.
If he were to die in office, which would not be too long from now, then there would be a better chance of liberalizing the church… in my view anyway.

Butch

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Pope Benedict Resigning - 2/11/2013 12:30:36 PM   
farglebargle


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Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Yeah, and the last pope to resign due to his age was????

The stupid Catholic god picked him, for life. Because the stupid Catholic god think's he's the best person on the planet, right?

And now he's bailed.

I guess the stupid Catholic god was wrong, eh?

Jesus. The wrong answer to a question that no-one ever asked. The Messiah has not come, and everything that happens bad to someone who says he has, well, there's no real wonder about why, is there? Don't piss on G-d. G-d won't piss on you.

FWIW, I wouldn't piss on Pope Hitler Youth if he was burning to death on fire.

Know who else didn't get any 'choice' about what they did in WW2? Anne Frank. But she didn't go along with the Nazi's because it was 'easier', morally, did she?



quote:

ORIGINAL: EsotericLady

The moment I read the national news about the Pope resigning, the very first thing I thought was "the forum is going to have a field day with THIS news! And I see I am not disappointed.

The pope isn't being FORCED OUT of anything!!! He is resigning on his own accord due to his age and health issues.
Who cares if the last papal resignation was 600 years ago?????

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Last papal resignation was 600 years ago. They don't resign because they're old. He's been forced out over the "Covering Up Child Rape" thing.

Good for them. It's about freaking time. Pope Hitler Youth was a stupid idea, but I suppose he had enough supporters to get in in the first place.





< Message edited by farglebargle -- 2/11/2013 12:35:12 PM >

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RE: Pope Benedict Resigning - 2/11/2013 12:47:16 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Even if fargle is right and this is over the latest kiddiefiddling Priests scare, they'll hardly admit it, will they?
I do have an image of Dan Brown watching the news this evening and then rushing off to the study and firing up his word processor, though...

I'd put money on it being the Vatican bank scandal not the sex abuse. Ratzinger appears to be neck deep in financial misdealings and straight up money laundering.

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RE: Pope Benedict Resigning - 2/11/2013 1:11:49 PM   
PeonForHer


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Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: EsotericLady

QUOTE from CNN: (if you need the link, I will send as proof)

"In his statement, Pope Benedict -- who turns 86 in April -- said he had come to the certainty "that my strengths, due to an advanced age, are no longer suited to an adequate exercise of the Petrine ministry."
Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico Lombardi said Pope Benedict had the right and potentially the duty to resign."
But he stressed that the pope's decision was not because of any external pressure.
According to the National Catholic Weekly, modern popes have felt that resignation is unacceptable and could encourage factions within the church to pressure pontiffs to step down.
Canon law states that a resignation must be made freely and properly manifested and that the pope resigning must be of sound mind."



No worries, I don't need a link, EL. I've read his resignation speech. However, obviously, it's only one thing to be taken into account in working out the true reasons for his stepping down. The papacy is at least partly a political role, of course, and we have to take what any politician says with a bag full of salt.

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RE: Pope Benedict Resigning - 2/11/2013 1:18:59 PM   
OsideGirl


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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

doubt anyone couldha pressured benedict ta go. reckon its illness too.


Could easily be a combination of that and the paedophiliac nastiness, which is a long way from being dealt with and has been spectacularly badly handled so far.


That's closer to what I was thinking. He has put his foot in it several times, I think he realizes that fighting his image would be an overwhelming battle and has decided to withdraw.


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RE: Pope Benedict Resigning - 2/11/2013 1:20:01 PM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EsotericLady

I used "catholics" as a word to describe those who were "lay people"...parishoners, if you will...as opposed to bishops or cardinals within the Catholic church.




And nobody in the quotes was questioning who made the decision. Im still not getting your point.

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RE: Pope Benedict Resigning - 2/11/2013 1:26:50 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Yes on one ,two,three and four.That`s just the start IMHO.Each and every perpetrator must be tried in a secular criminal/civil court.Let the chips fall where they may.


And the leadership who buried the abuses for decades need to lose their jobs and or also face trial in a lawful court.Anything less is giving in to evil.


I was raised Protestant in a liberal Christ-centered church in north New Jersey.



If he is no longer Pope, he loses immunity....

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RE: Pope Benedict Resigning - 2/11/2013 1:30:54 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Even if fargle is right and this is over the latest kiddiefiddling Priests scare, they'll hardly admit it, will they?
I do have an image of Dan Brown watching the news this evening and then rushing off to the study and firing up his word processor, though...

I'd put money on it being the Vatican bank scandal not the sex abuse. Ratzinger appears to be neck deep in financial misdealings and straight up money laundering.


Too much is coming out at once. There is no way the Church can dodge all these arrows. The sacrificial lamb must be offered.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Pope Benedict Resigning - 2/11/2013 1:51:32 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
The 265th Pontiff, Benedict would be the first leader of the Church to step down voluntarily in almost six centuries.

so he was the first one to decide to not to die on the job or is it that the job kills em all?

I may have been born Catholic but I said "No" to religion long ago.. so I dont follow the circumstances of how each one "resigns".. Not a good way to find replacements: Accept this job and it will be the death of you.. yes, I know we all eventually "go".. I dont intend to ever stop working (cuz I work for myself) so I expect that might happen to me too (dying on the job, I mean, not becoming Pope )

I find the whole sweeping the pedi scandals under the rug to be so telling of how the church operates which is disgusting to me..

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