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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/12/2013 7:09:22 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

My daughter became very angry and upset with me at that point. My daughter is extremely feminist in that she believes in what she called equal relationship, although if you have ever seen her relationship, that's not how I see it. She does what she wants, despite what he thinks. It's all about her.

She has called me weak and wrong and insulting to modern women everywhere. Yeah, it bothered me at first to the point I even cried to Master about how she felt towards me. I mean, she's my daughter. It hurt. But over time, I have learned to just let it be and just live my life and relationship the way Master and I wish it to be. She can just continue to roll her eyes all she wants. I don't live my life for her anymore since she's now an adult.


You bring up a great point here, littlewonder. Your daughter is only one of many women who believe that to be a feminist, you must demand your way and never give in to men. Far from being "insulting to modern women everywhere," your relationship is a shining example that we modern women get to CHOOSE what we want. To me, THAT is the beauty of equality and feminism - we have the right and the power to choose what we wish, even if it is a traditional, conservative relationship and/or a master/slave one.

What the naysayers don't seem to get is that if other powerful, "feminist" women get to dictate what type of relationship is correct and what is not, they are no different than the oppressive men feminists fought against for so long (and continue to) to ensure that women have the right to choose their OWN relationships. Good for you for not changing your life to accommodate her short-sightedness.

luci

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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/12/2013 7:50:19 AM   
breagha


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wow is all i can say. so much info and i am grateful for it all. i will respond. i do have questions. it is going to take me a while to write it all out. i just wanted to say thank you to everyone who replied.

(in reply to slaveluci)
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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/12/2013 8:42:52 AM   
breagha


Posts: 380
Joined: 7/29/2012
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i think that to clarify i will tell about the information i gave to my friends. after being asked to go on a girl's weekend with them i said i don't know yet. i will have to ask him and get back to you. this sparked the why would you have to ask him? questions. normally i would have said because i don't know if he has plans for us etc. this time i just said because that is how it works with us. i went on to explain that in our relationship he makes the decisions. all decisions. i didn't go into detail about play. i didn't call him my Master or state that i am his slave. i just made it clear that he is in control. they took this as him being mentally and emotionally abusive. they didn't ask questions. they just jumped into judgement of him. and then of me when i defended my choice in partner.

it isn't that i don't understand their concern. i was in a very abusive relationship before. ( the type that if i hadn't gotten out it would have likely ended in my death ) that was when i lived away from these friends and they didn't learn about it until after i had gotten out of it. so i get their concern and i do not blame them for it. i do feel as though no matter what i said that they had already formed a quick opinion and that was all they saw. the negative.

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
My daughter became very angry and upset with me at that point. My daughter is extremely feminist in that she believes in what she called equal relationship, although if you have ever seen her relationship, that's not how I see it. She does what she wants, despite what he thinks. It's all about her.

She has called me weak and wrong and insulting to modern women everywhere.

The ones who walk away from you have proven they are not your friends. If others disagree with you but still stick around just tell them that you are not always in agreement with their choices either but live and let live. If they continue to look down upon you then you know they are not your friends.



first i will say i'm sorry about the conflict with your daughter. when i was 19 i "came out " to my mom about my relationship with the man who was my Master then. she cried. she told me she couldn't believe i would do that to her because she was in an abusive relationship in her past ( and i knew about that ). even though it is year and years later... she still can't accept that i would choose this type or relationship. so now she pretends she never learned that info about me. as for my friends... i thought that we were all close enough and open enough that they might understand that this is my choice. they know that since i have been with Master that i haven't been happier. maybe ever. and they approve of that. just not of the dynamic i choose to live.

quote:


evesgrden

If you weren't with him, you would seek the same type of relationship with another man, who had similar qualities and where you could be in a role similar to what you have now.


exactly. i spent a very long time denying that this type of relationship was what i needed. now that i have found it again i can't believe how long i spend being unhappy because i wasn't getting what i needed. even if Master and i were not together i would seek out the type of man he is because it is what i like. and need.

quote:


JustDragonflies

If you feel up to it, it might benefit your relationship with your friends to discuss how and why BDSM isn't abuse. I've discussed some clear reasons, and there are many essays online about this precise topic. Many people's family/friends have concerns so there's quite a bit of info you can share.

I don't believe I'm doing anything wrong and I wanted to open up people's minds and hearts to that. I am fully aware not everyone finds that "activism" appealing or desirable or possible in their situation. But I took the concept of being open pretty seriously and gave it a lot of thought.

Take the fluffy talk away and essentially, she is saying is 'If you do X, I can't be your friend.' The implication is that you ought to choose her over X. That's emotional abuse 101. It denies your free will. And it implies that you're responsible for how she chooses to manage her feelings and thoughts.


i loved your "mini novel" and it did help me a lot in the thought process. i am currently working out a way to "present" this to both of them in a light that might give them the chance to ease up on the judgement. i don't want to try to change their minds. i do understand that a lot of people can't understand this type of relationship in this day and age. i am going to incorporate your ideas into this. thank you so much for your insight.

haha i feel as though i have written my own mini novel. my main concern with this situation is how it might reflect upon him. he is a good man. and he and i work very well together. i live in a very small town. the community is very closely knit. i've known almost everyone here since my birth. and i wouldn't change that for anything in the world. BUT... people talk here. the rumor mill is running 24/7. i would hope that the conversation(s) that i have with my friends would stay between the three of us. there is no certainty of that though... especially if they have genuine concern for my well being. what starts out as "i'm concerned that her man is being abusive because he controls her" could turn into " i'm concerned for her life because this guy probably beats the crap out of her all day long" just by twisting of words. i feel as though i shouldn't have said anything at all, not because of the effect on my friendships but because i want people to see how good he really is to me and my daughter. and that we are happy. and i fear i may have planted the seed that sprouts thorns instead of flowers and people's outlook on him will always be negative because of it. i don't like hiding things from my "besties" though and i thought they could handle it. Perhaps i didn't word it correctly. i tried to choose my words carefully so it was maybe less of a shock. i apparently chose wrongly though.

as Aries said though... the bomb has been dropped. i'm now assigned to cleaning up the fall out. wish me luck. and thank you so much again for all of the insight. it really has helped a lot. yet another reason that i love "this side" of the site.

(in reply to littlewonder)
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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/12/2013 8:46:54 AM   
angelikaJ


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There is a book: When Someone You Love Is Kinky.
Perhaps you could give it to the more open minded of your friends.

And also, instead of defending him or the relationship per se, maybe you could talk about how this relationship makes you feel.

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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/12/2013 12:40:37 PM   
JeffBC


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From: Canada
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That certainly hasn't been our experience. I've told a fair number of folks -- vanilla and kinky -- about our marriage. None of them have reacted in the way you describe. Honestly, I can't really imagine any friend of mine doing that anyway. If some friend did behave in this way then I'd be devoutly thankful that they showed their true stripes in a trivial moment like this rather than some moment when I needed them.

No, I don't think your honesty was a mistake. I think your mistake was in who you call "friend".

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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/12/2013 12:55:00 PM   
LafayetteLady


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From: Northern New Jersey
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Thank you for clarifying how it all came about.

In all honesty, there concern, based on your past is valid, as you recognize. However, to me, even in a vanilla relationship between two people who are committed to each other, you simply don't go away for the weekend without discussing it with your partner, so their jumping the gun is kind of odd.

I think I would have left it at "that is simply how our relationship works, if he doesn't want me to go that weekend I won't."

Hopefully, after the shock wears off, you and your friends can have a more adult conversation about it, because I really believe that they acted very childish about this.

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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/12/2013 1:32:59 PM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
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TieMeInKnottss,
I wouldn't go as far to say I'm in the closet...
but I do believe personal details about my
partner and I should be kept on a need to
know basis.

I'd like to think if people were aware of the
specifics, their opinion of me wouldn't change,
because after all I'm still the same person, but
you never really know do you.

_____________________________

530 DAYS

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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/12/2013 1:45:38 PM   
OsideGirl


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Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

TieMeInKnottss,
I wouldn't go as far to say I'm in the closet...
but I do believe personal details about my
partner and I should be kept on a need to
know basis.


I believe the same thing, but I also believed that when I was vanilla. What happens between himself and I, is no one's business except ours.


_____________________________

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The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: slightly insulted... - 2/12/2013 2:10:52 PM   
lilcracker


Posts: 243
Joined: 4/14/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

TieMeInKnottss,
I wouldn't go as far to say I'm in the closet...
but I do believe personal details about my
partner and I should be kept on a need to
know basis.


I believe the same thing, but I also believed that when I was vanilla. What happens between himself and I, is no one's business except ours.


I second that, however there are those, even 'vanilla', who relate all details and I have often wondered if it were merely for the shock value

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: slightly insulted... - 2/12/2013 3:37:45 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: breagha
Yet somehow me saying " i don't know yet. i will have to ask him and get back to you" has cost me a very important person.

Well, I'll be the dissenting voice and say that if you said that to me, I might be "slightly insulted" myself, and I'm kinky. It depends on the situation, of course, and I don't really know the context here, but I'll try to paint a picture so you see where I'm coming from.

I have a friend who is a great friend when she is single, and who vanishes completely when she is in a relationship. She's vanilla, and we are platonic, but even so, it gets borderline offensive that she only has time for me when she doesn't have a man in her life. It's as though we only have a friendship when she doesn't have something better to do. She's apologized about this in the past, and meant it. Pretty much, I have to accept this is a flaw she will probably never fix, and decide whether she's worth keeping in my life. And she has enough positive qualities that they outweigh the negative.

Now picture your friend X. Person X has known you for a long time, let's say. Longer than you've known your current master. She is a friend to you. If you asked her for something, she would decide yes or no without checking with someone else. She expects the same in return. She wants someone she can rely on, someone who, if she needs help or emotional support, she can go to you, instead of having to go by proxy to someone she doesn't know (or perhaps doesn't trust), your master.

Honestly, if you're answering them the way you say you were, you either aren't a great friend, or your relationship with your master is brand new, or problematic. Do you really have NO ability to make decisions about your friends or family? Is it really true that he makes EVERY SINGLE decision? That sounds like so much micromanagement that it is impossible. It also sounds as though you are trying to avoid having any responsibility.

I think your friends are flipping out on you because you dissed them.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/12/2013 3:40:24 PM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline
It's good if both partners are on the same page
in that way.


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530 DAYS

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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/12/2013 4:05:10 PM   
littleone35


Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline
My relationshp was  on a need to know basis.  Idon'yt think if they knew my vanilla friends would not attack me like yours did.  If i was happy and they could be assured temsekves i was not being harmed.  They would have questions  but would be ok with it.  Then my friends are pretty open  minded.  Now tat we are msrried just msde everything eaiser

Does make me wonder why your friends attacked you like that.

Matt's lirttleone

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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/12/2013 4:20:37 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
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FR,

When I talk to vanilla friends, I just play up the kinky sex angle, which works well with my peeps.

When I started identifying as submissive, I did have some struggles with the question of whether that made me a bad feminist, but since equal rights includes the right to chose the type of relationship that makes one happy, I satisfactorily resolved that issue.







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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/12/2013 4:26:02 PM   
JustDragonflies


Posts: 50
Joined: 3/30/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: breagha

haha i feel as though i have written my own mini novel. my main concern with this situation is how it might reflect upon him. he is a good man. and he and i work very well together. i live in a very small town. the community is very closely knit. i've known almost everyone here since my birth. and i wouldn't change that for anything in the world. BUT... people talk here. the rumor mill is running 24/7. i would hope that the conversation(s) that i have with my friends would stay between the three of us. there is no certainty of that though... especially if they have genuine concern for my well being. what starts out as "i'm concerned that her man is being abusive because he controls her" could turn into " i'm concerned for her life because this guy probably beats the crap out of her all day long" just by twisting of words. i feel as though i shouldn't have said anything at all, not because of the effect on my friendships but because i want people to see how good he really is to me and my daughter. and that we are happy. and i fear i may have planted the seed that sprouts thorns instead of flowers and people's outlook on him will always be negative because of it. i don't like hiding things from my "besties" though and i thought they could handle it. Perhaps i didn't word it correctly. i tried to choose my words carefully so it was maybe less of a shock. i apparently chose wrongly though.

as Aries said though... the bomb has been dropped. i'm now assigned to cleaning up the fall out. wish me luck. and thank you so much again for all of the insight. it really has helped a lot. yet another reason that i love "this side" of the site.



I'm glad you found my thoughts helpful. :) I'm also glad to get the back story. (Although it doesn't really change my stance on how the one friend reacted by holding her friendship hostage... if you were being abused in reality, it would further isolate you!)

Regarding how it reflects on him........... Maybe it would be helpful to tell them that regardless of his existence, you would enjoy this kind of power exchange but that you deliberately chose him to have a relationship with because of his attributes of a good man, someone who respects you and treats you with dignity.

For the record, I don't think you necessarily did anything wrong or said anything wrong, you just assumed they would be more open and accepting than they were. I imagine that a couple more conversations to address their reasonable worries will get you to the place you wanted to be with them.

The book someone mentioned will help. If you can afford to, buy a copy and let them share it!

In the mean time, here are some blogs, essays and etc which will help them. It will also help them to read about intelligent, educated, thoughtful people viewing BDSM in an open, serious light, I suspect.

For what it's worth, I had the same sorts of issues and reservations that you're dealing with when I openly started to share my life choices with my loved ones. I'd been abused. And I lived in a small town and had a very close knit group of friends and family. :) I find it easier and less stressful now than I did then, so take heart!

This link discusses the "lifestyle" as actually helping prevent abuse with it's focus on consent, safe words and etc. It also goes into the differences between abuse and S&M or D/s.
http://clarissethorn.com/blog/2009/04/30/evidence-that-the-bdsm-community-does-not-enable-abuse/

This link addresses the mixed feelings one has after being abused and engaging in BDSM activities and goes into, lightly, how there is more to the non-abuse factor than "merely" consent. I particularly like that she(?) points out that the tone of what is happening is very different from abuse, even if it might APPEAR to be the same acts. The tone being one of love, joy and playfulness, and for me: intimacy.
http://beyondthehills.wordpress.com/2009/12/18/the-difference-between-bdsm-and-abuse-is-not-just-consent/

This link goes into a great deal of very intelligent and insightful dialog about the differences in BDSM. It really spells out the differences in the tone, and actions. If, among ANY thing to share with them, this has got to be one of the most valid resources, especially for those who are feminist.
http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2011/08/03/thinking-more-clearly-about-bdsm-versus-abuse/

A lighthearted myth busting on BDSM:
http://bitchmagazine.org/post/thinking-kink-myths-BDSM-feminist-magazine-sex-bondage

Here is a link from Pandys.org about how to recognize abuse within D/s. It might help your friends to know that we do acknowledge in the Support Group "community" that BDSM is NOT abuse, but it can become abuse and how to address it. We're not ignoring the concerns or issues.
http://www.pandys.org/articles/bdsmdomesticviolence.html


I hope these links are helpful. :)

I'd also like to share some personal thoughts on the notion that it's degrading to be submissive to a man. I am not a sub, for the record. I'm a Dom. But... Regardless of "which side of the whip" I'd like to be one... My vagina should not be a dictator on what is and isn't appropriate for me to do. My will, happiness and fulfillment ought to be what decides what I can and can't do. The double standard that seems to exist in the vanilla world about the degradation of female submission is in total opposition to genuinely feminist philosophies. Feminism is to promote equality between the genders. Not hold one above the other. When that happens it is female superiority. And I, personally, won't stand for it. If being submissive is what satisfies me, it's an injustice to deny me that as a woman or a man. Every human deserves to pursue what makes them happy and fulfilled so long as it doesn't suppress or harm another's similar right. You being strong enough to follow your joy makes you a worthwhile role model to other women, regardless of their stance on power exchange. When someone attempts to force us to follow their rules on what's appropriate for a woman to do, it's the same thing as patriarchal sexist notions, just in a different direction.

Furthermore, and I'm really getting soap-boxy now, forgive me, ;) ... the idea that 50's housewifery is degrading to women is only relevant if that is ALL that a woman is allowed to do. It's 2013. We all have a choice. You have a choice. No one is making you do anything. That's awesome for women. You can choose to be, essentially, whatever you want. Your choice does NOT affect the availability of other women's freedom. You submitting doesn't set up a situation for other women to be forced to submit. We're all in charge of utilizing the resources we have presented to us. Nothing that you're doing infringes on the rights of others. And one or a million women's actions alone won't take away these rights or progress. There's a lot more of us who are accountable for insisting and demanding that we have rights and freedom. Your freedom to submit is a reflection of women's liberation, not a threat to it!!! Not that I'm suggesting anything, but I'd be delighted to discuss this with your friends, given that I've been a women's rights activist for the last 15 years and am a "female dominant" myself!




(in reply to breagha)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: slightly insulted... - 2/12/2013 5:28:51 PM   
breagha


Posts: 380
Joined: 7/29/2012
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Again to JustDragonflies - thank you so much.

i have decided that in the future i will be more cautious about how i refer to my relationship in mixed company. i am also reevaluating friendships. as i said in my very long post... the people i am friends with here i have been friends with since early childhood. we all grew up together... and i think that perhaps that brings us to have certain expectations of those friendships. my expectation was that they know me well enough and we are all open enough with one another that my explanation was something they could handle. i am learning (again ) to not expect anything. hard to do though...

perhaps i will just keep it to the " i like kinky sex " explanation ( if i need one in the future ). though that seems to make what it is i have within my relationship so much less than what it is. only because it is much much more than playtime that i have.

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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/12/2013 6:28:33 PM   
DesFIP


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From: Apple County NY
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I don't explain my relationship, I allow others to observe it. What they see is that I am well treated, protected, and cherished. And that I respect him as much as he respects me.

However, when I've said to people that I couldn't commit until I checked with him and their response was to say I shouldn't have to check with him, my response has always been that if they don't care enough about their partner to see if making an appointment for Saturday might cause them problems - then their idea of love is entirely selfish.

Because he doesn't just make decisions assuming that it will be okay with me, that I should have to cancel what I'm doing. If he isn't sure of my schedule, he checks with me first also.

Ask them why they claim to love someone yet are rude to them. The best defense is always a good offense.



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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/12/2013 6:38:20 PM   
marksoo


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They ran you down for an hour and you're only "slightly insulted"? Now THAT is a bullet-proof ego!

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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/12/2013 6:43:19 PM   
breagha


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i'm only slightly insulted because of the way they reacted. insulted is only one of the feelings/reactions i have had to this situation

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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/12/2013 8:22:25 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
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quote:

Well, I'll be the dissenting voice and say that if you said that to me, I might be "slightly insulted" myself, and I'm kinky. It depends on the situation, of course, and I don't really know the context here, but I'll try to paint a picture so you see where I'm coming from


I'm one of those women who always tells others that I have to ask Master first. I even do it with my daughter. Yeah, they hate it but they also know that I'm a traditionalist and that's how we roll. I've even done that in all my relationships in the past, be they bdsm or vanilla. For me it's just common courtesy.

As for when I'm in a relationship and I disappear on my friends, yeah, it's gonna happen for awhile until we have been together for a good long while. My friends do the same when they get in a relationship as well. It's like when you graduate from high school and you tell each other "we'll keep in contact forever. We'll never lose touch". But then as soon as you are in the world, go to college, get a good job, have a family, etc...those friends fall by the wayside. You might pick up years later with those friends but you both know that life happens. I haven't seen my high school friends in over 15 years and I'm just starting to hook back up with them and it's like we were never apart.

So being in a relationship isn't any different. You both will keep in contact still but probably erratically, not as often. If I have a friend who doesn't understand that nurturing a relationship with someone I want to spend my entire life with, then for me I would find them bitter, jaded and needing more attention than I can give them.


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Everything has changed

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RE: slightly insulted... - 2/12/2013 9:31:48 PM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I don't explain my relationship, I allow others to observe it. What they see is that I am well treated, protected, and cherished. And that I respect him as much as he respects me.

However, when I've said to people that I couldn't commit until I checked with him and their response was to say I shouldn't have to check with him, my response has always been that if they don't care enough about their partner to see if making an appointment for Saturday might cause them problems - then their idea of love is entirely selfish.

Because he doesn't just make decisions assuming that it will be okay with me, that I should have to cancel what I'm doing. If he isn't sure of my schedule, he checks with me first also.

Ask them why they claim to love someone yet are rude to them. The best defense is always a good offense.




This is my thought too. Whether we're D/s or not, if I'm in a committed relationship with someone I'm going to check in with them before I make plans. It's just politeness. I'm surprised people even questioned the OP on it because if I invited someone out I'd expect them to need to check with their partner. Even more so since it sounds like this is a whole weekend away, not just a dinner after work.

My husband would do the same with me. If we both had something we wanted to do he would obviously get the final say but my friends don't need to know the decision making process.

Don't get me wrong, if we're only in the early stages of dating that's one thing, but with your long-term partner? It's a good habit to be in, I dunno about everyone else's life but with us it would be 'who has the car?' 'can we afford it?' 'can we get a babysitter?' 'hey isn't that the weekend we promised your mother...'.

If anyone questioned me on that my answer would be 'it's just respectful to check'.

_____________________________

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Upon the hours and times of your desire?

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