Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Why A Slave?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Why A Slave? Page: <<   < prev  16 17 [18] 19 20   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Why A Slave? - 6/6/2013 11:31:38 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
I was being playful, but I'm not joking. That -minus the extremes- is really what I think will happen with you both.

:) I knew that actually and I thought you were probably right. I just wanted the super-powers is all.

quote:

They where so close, and so good at understanding and reading each other that they sometimes appeared as one person. It was very hard when they talked to figure out who exactly said what, and came up with what idea, because how well their thoughts intertwined. And when you saw them together, they did very much radiate out an aura of love.

They where one, and even though my grandfather was subtly in charge, and my grandmother subtly followed, you wouldn't have been able to tell that unless you knew them very very well, because she knew what he wanted and did it before he even had a chance to formulate it as a leading direction, and he knew what she needed and adapted his own desires to that to such a degree that it was next to impossible to tell whether he wanted something because *he* wanted it, or she wanted it, or they both wanted it.

Already this is very familiar to me... not surprisingly given that our marriage is much longer than our dynamic. Not only do I find it hard to tell whether *I* want something or not I don't really care. I'd have to struggle to think of reasons I wouldn't want something that Carol did want. Conversely, if this was something she didn't want then what use could it have to me? What the marriage wants trumps both of us. Of course, she thinks the same way and it ends up going as you described.

It's easy for me to think in terms of D/s with us. Clearly of our two personalities mine is the one which "overshadows" hers. But it's hard to think in terms of "command" and "obedience" because that would require more separation between us than is normally desirable or allowed. Heh... I have no idea (nor have I for some time) if that makes us a "true" this or that but if man... that path sounds like a path of true happiness to me.

< Message edited by JeffBC -- 6/6/2013 11:37:39 AM >

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
Profile   Post #: 341
RE: Why A Slave? - 6/6/2013 11:35:31 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Just out of curiosity, do you think that if your dynamic had started out as D/s or M/s, would it have morphed the same way? You may not be able to answer that, and its ok if you cant. It requires a lot of supposition.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 342
RE: Why A Slave? - 6/6/2013 11:46:52 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Just out of curiosity, do you think that if your dynamic had started out as D/s or M/s, would it have morphed the same way? You may not be able to answer that, and its ok if you cant. It requires a lot of supposition.

Absolutely. Let me show my work.

Our "dynamic" DID start out as D/s from our very first meeting. It's just neither of us had the words and perspective to see it in that light. But our "dynamic" is merely a reflection of us. It's not agreement based. Nobody had to nod to make it so. So given that, how this unfolded is how I wanted it to unfold. I was always in charge and this is where I brought us -- on purpose. If I had known a different set of terminology it would not have changed anything. This is just what happens when you put a love muffin in charge of a marriage.

When I spoke of the length of our dynamic above I was referring to our formal dynamic because things definitely went to a new level once we started focusing on it. But the truth of our marriage is that I was always in charge.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 343
RE: Why A Slave? - 6/6/2013 1:13:56 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I was curious if the marriage came first, and you both "fell" into the D/s or if it was here all along. Thank you for your response. Im not usually this nosey.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 344
RE: Why A Slave? - 6/6/2013 5:30:16 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
if women are that cheap to buy, they arent getting much by whoring them out either.
Sorry, but this is sounding more and more like a fantasy someone cooked up. And I realized the more I talk about it, the less sympathetic I become to this poor "victim".

You are less sympathetic because it was her choice to go away with him. So you expect her to live with her decision or simply do something to get out.
For me, I believe he gave her misleading information for someone who is inexperience in what slavery really encompass to entice her in. And with mind fucking and also environment she is in, I understand totally how difficult it will be for her to get out. More difficult than me if I was in her situation, although it could never happen to me, as I clearly know that I'm not into slavery.


< Message edited by Greta75 -- 6/6/2013 5:31:53 PM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 345
RE: Why A Slave? - 6/6/2013 5:32:42 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
if women are that cheap to buy, they arent getting much by whoring them out either.
Sorry, but this is sounding more and more like a fantasy someone cooked up. And I realized the more I talk about it, the less sympathetic I become to this poor "victim".

You are less sympathetic because it was her choice to go away with him. So you expect her to live with her decision or simply do something to get out.
For me, I believe he gave her misleading information for someone who is inexperience in what slavery really encompass to entice her in. And with mind fucking and also environment she is in, I understand totally how difficult it will be for her to get out. More difficult than me if I was in her situation, although it could never happen to me, as I clearly know that I'm not into slavery.



She's an adult. Stop treating her like a child. You do no one any favors.


_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 346
RE: Why A Slave? - 6/6/2013 5:40:46 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Thats the optimal. Yet, when a slave chooses a man with the intention of changing him... say starting a relationship with a Sadist when she really isnt into hard core pain... and expecting him to give that part up and remain 100% faithful to her... that just isnt going to work.


Yup, his line is my line. I'm not a masochist. He's a sadist. I knew what and who he is before I ever met him. I knew full well what I was getting into. There are things he does to me that I absolutely hate and even abhor but I do them anyway because I love him and I gave him my word and it makes him happy. I'm one of these people who is faithful to the end and will stick it out until it's just no longer viable. I will go to the ends of the earth before I let a relationship end. I've never had any interest in changing him though. Why would I? It would change the man I fell in love with. Is he still 100% faithful even though he knows I'm not a masochist? Yup. Even if he decides one day to play with someone else, I know he will still be faithful to me by coming back to me and still giving his love to me. Why? Because I trust him with all my heart, mind, body and soul.


_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 347
RE: Why A Slave? - 6/6/2013 5:43:20 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
She's an adult. Stop treating her like a child. You do no one any favors.

She was still in her teens when she went away with him. I think at the point of going into it, she was not a fully developed adult yet. This ain't no 38 yr old woman.

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 348
RE: Why A Slave? - 6/6/2013 5:48:38 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
if women are that cheap to buy, they arent getting much by whoring them out either.
Sorry, but this is sounding more and more like a fantasy someone cooked up. And I realized the more I talk about it, the less sympathetic I become to this poor "victim".

You are less sympathetic because it was her choice to go away with him. So you expect her to live with her decision or simply do something to get out.
For me, I believe he gave her misleading information for someone who is inexperience in what slavery really encompass to entice her in. And with mind fucking and also environment she is in, I understand totally how difficult it will be for her to get out. More difficult than me if I was in her situation, although it could never happen to me, as I clearly know that I'm not into slavery.



Wow, you have no clue about me... none... yet you assume what I do know and what I dont...

I could go into details, but beyond popular opinion, I dont share much about my private life on a message board.

I made many mistakes, and paid the price.... I also learned to read bullshit when its dumped at my feet.

And, at this point, I am so fucking pissed at you that I cant think straight. So, for now, my conversations with you are at a definite end.


< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 6/6/2013 5:49:13 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 349
RE: Why A Slave? - 6/6/2013 6:14:44 PM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
She's an adult. Stop treating her like a child. You do no one any favors.

She was still in her teens when she went away with him. I think at the point of going into it, she was not a fully developed adult yet. This ain't no 38 yr old woman.


Lets for a moment assume that everything you say is true. Lets take the whole story at face value. Lets assume that you're right and she was clueless, and mislead, and is now horrible being abused by this awful awful man...

Ok, so now what?

What exactly are you trying to accomplish with your attempt to convince tizzy, lw, and myself that this story is a case of genuine abuse? Surely you're not expecting us to do something about it, we don't even have the details needed to track the poor girl down.

So what's your point then?

The whole deal with this girl got brought by you to demonstrate that you believe that real consensual slavery is possible (post #87) since then you've been on a mission it seems to also claim that this girl is being abused. In fact, every time somebody has come in and explained that any specific detail you brought up by itself wasn't a sign of abuse, you've gone on to come up with additional details that then would supposedly justify that this is a case of abuse.

So fine, let's assume that in the specific case of this specific girl is a case of abuse... what's your point? That all cases of consensual slavery are cases of abuse? Or not?

And if you don't believe that all cases on consensual slavery are cases of abuse, then why on Earth is it so important to hammer home to us that this specific case is one of abuse? It's not the topic of the thread, and nobody here has claimed even for a second that cases of consensual slavery can't go horrible wrong and end up being abusive (just like vanilla relationships can btw).

So lets hear it... what's your point?



_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 350
RE: Why A Slave? - 6/6/2013 6:16:29 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
You seem to have missed a lot.

I would agree.

I immediately concede that and already have in my previous post. Furthermore as someone who avoids the gorean forum like the plague I have much less context as you do. I'm also not thinking of this in terms of "need", but am wondering if it would have been beneficial. If she had seen a psychologist, I certainly would be interested to hear what they had to say on the matter.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 351
RE: Why A Slave? - 6/6/2013 6:19:56 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
So lets hear it... what's your point?

You'd have to hang around in SecondLife to know the "point" -- assuming there is one. Man, I think I heard this story or one just like it about 6 thousand times. The number of 10 billion line notecards I got documenting all the horrendous things one alleged person did to another alleged person was just amazing. It's like the whole Captain SaveAHo thing is a national pastime in SL. There are entire sims setup to protect poor wayward slaves (at a cost of $300/mo last I checked). Believe it or not I've seen online courts doing online trials. Even ever-so-sweet Carol got to the place where she simply rolled her eyes.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
Profile   Post #: 352
RE: Why A Slave? - 6/6/2013 6:20:05 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

The whole deal with this girl got brought by you to demonstrate that you believe that real consensual slavery is possible (post #87) since then you've been on a mission it seems to also claim that this girl is being abused.

I believe "real slavery" is abusive in the first place. I mean real slavery. I was simply illustrating a case how it was only consensual in the beginning, but later, starts being non-consensual slavery. So real slavery is still possible in bdsm, but the region you live in plays a huge part, I mean, if you were in Saudi, make an American women come with you to Saudi, good luck to her getting out. You are not even allowed to travel out without a man.
That's my point.
But it was derailed, because ya all believe this was tap tap tap and grilled me more on it.



< Message edited by Greta75 -- 6/6/2013 6:24:25 PM >

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
Profile   Post #: 353
RE: Why A Slave? - 6/6/2013 6:24:50 PM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

I believe "real slavery" is abusive in the first place. I mean real slavery. I was simply illustrating a case how it was only consensual in the beginning, but later, starts being non-consensual slavery. So real slavery is still possible in bdsm, but the region you live in plays a huge part, I mean, if you were in Saudi, make an American women come with you to Saudi, good luck to her getting out. You are not even allowed to travel out without a man.
That's my point.



At what point does it become abuse?

If somebody consensually enters into a relationship and then is made to do things they don't want to do, becomes brainwashed, manipulated, and put into a situation such that it becomes very hard, if not impossible for them to leave, is that real slaver? Or is more than that needed? And is it abuse, or is more than that needed?

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 354
RE: Why A Slave? - 6/6/2013 6:26:18 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
At what point does it become abuse?

If somebody consensually enters into a relationship and then is made to do things they don't want to do, becomes brainwashed, manipulated, and put into a situation such that it becomes very hard, if not impossible for them to leave, is that real slaver? Or is more than that needed? And is it abuse, or is more than that needed?

I think...., it's important the start before the person enters, she is consenting to everything that his gonna do first and understands the full implication of it before she gives "consent" into this long haul ride.
If he mislead her then it's abuse. Basic parameters like, will she be shared, the guy should have been upfront and said, it's his decision to share her if he wants.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 6/6/2013 6:27:35 PM >

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
Profile   Post #: 355
RE: Why A Slave? - 6/6/2013 6:26:56 PM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
So lets hear it... what's your point?

You'd have to hang around in SecondLife to know the "point" -- assuming there is one. Man, I think I heard this story or one just like it about 6 thousand times. The number of 10 billion line notecards I got documenting all the horrendous things one alleged person did to another alleged person was just amazing. It's like the whole Captain SaveAHo thing is a national pastime in SL. There are entire sims setup to protect poor wayward slaves (at a cost of $300/mo last I checked). Believe it or not I've seen online courts doing online trials. Even ever-so-sweet Carol got to the place where she simply rolled her eyes.



Yeah no thanks, I've tried it. SL personally bores me to death.

Fun about the online courts though. Did that related to offline crimes, or crimes "committed" within SL?

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 356
RE: Why A Slave? - 6/6/2013 6:29:00 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
You seem to have missed a lot.

I would agree.

I immediately concede that and already have in my previous post. Furthermore as someone who avoids the gorean forum like the plague I have much less context as you do. I'm also not thinking of this in terms of "need", but am wondering if it would have been beneficial. If she had seen a psychologist, I certainly would be interested to hear what they had to say on the matter.


You would not believe the amount of peace one can find by finally accepting you cant have what you want in a relationship, and simply accept what you can have.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 357
RE: Why A Slave? - 6/6/2013 6:29:51 PM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
At what point does it become abuse?

If somebody consensually enters into a relationship and then is made to do things they don't want to do, becomes brainwashed, manipulated, and put into a situation such that it becomes very hard, if not impossible for them to leave, is that real slaver? Or is more than that needed? And is it abuse, or is more than that needed?

I think...., it's important the start before the person enters, she is consenting to everything that his gonna do first and understands the full implication of it before she gives "consent" into this long haul ride.
If he mislead her then it's abuse. Basic parameters like, will she be shared, the guy should have been upfront and said, it's his decision to share her if she wants.


Then you are saying I was abused, and Carol is abused, and -though I'm not 100% sure on this- tazzy and littlewonder are/have been abused as well.

Because all of those are examples of relationships that where entered into consensually, without having all the expectations that would eventually be placed upon the s-type being laid out in detail beforehand.

Hell, you're saying my husband is currently being abusive to me because he expects me to make coffee for him in the morning, something that I wasn't told at all would be part of the general expectations before marrying him.

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 358
RE: Why A Slave? - 6/6/2013 6:31:42 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I knew that much going in....lol

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
Profile   Post #: 359
RE: Why A Slave? - 6/6/2013 6:33:55 PM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline 		It's demeaning I tell ya.

Traumatizing even, considering we have the same coffee maker as my ex-Mistress did, and it played a small part in the argument that caused the eventual break-up.

I totally need therapy now (or to quit being so damn cheap and replace the damn coffee maker).

< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 6/6/2013 6:34:59 PM >

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 360
Page:   <<   < prev  16 17 [18] 19 20   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Why A Slave? Page: <<   < prev  16 17 [18] 19 20   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109