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ORIGINAL: YN

Well, I was producing evidence it occurred in specific case in English North America, the history of such conduct would certainly fill a forum and when dealing with such paladins of England it appears best to keep with simple sentences and ideas.

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ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

What scares me is how many Americans seem hell bent on throwing the last 250 years of progress out the window.

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

No this is the one I wanted to deal with. While there was a letter suggesting it, there is no evidence it was ever carried out. You would know that if you had read your own link brains.

"But, some subsequent scholars have raised doubts about whether the smallpox outbreak can be traced to blankets from Fort Pitt with certainty."

I could say you're the one who needs to read the link, but I think the problem is something rather different.

Officers at the besieged Fort Pitt had already attempted to do what Amherst and Bouquet were discussing, apparently on their own initiative. During a parley at Fort Pitt on June 24, 1763, Ecuyer gave Delaware representatives two blankets and a handkerchief that had been exposed to smallpox, hoping to spread the disease to the Native Americans in order to end the siege. William Trent, the militia commander, left records that showed the purpose of giving the blankets was "to Convey the Smallpox to the Indians."'

That established, let's go for the money...

It is uncertain whether this fully documented attempt to spread smallpox to the Native Americans was successful. Because many Native Americans died from smallpox during Pontiac's Rebellion, historian Francis Jennings concluded that the attempt was "unquestionably effective". But, some subsequent scholars have raised doubts about whether the smallpox outbreak can be traced to blankets from Fort Pitt with certainty. According to an eyewitness report, smallpox was spreading among the Ohio Native Americans before the blanket incident. Because smallpox was already in the area, it may have reached Native villages through a number of sources.

Readers will not fail to notice how the quote you cited, which I've highlighted in red, was lifted out of context and misrepresented in your post as supporting the false claim you're trying to sell.

K.

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ORIGINAL: YN

Most the United States seem to fancy they are still English, or at least some other type of European colonial, you wonder why they bothered to revolt. Even those called every name in the book by the Europeans for being republicans, thinking they should be armed, thinking European governmental rule is worthless, etc.

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ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

What scares me is how many Americans seem hell bent on throwing the last 250 years of progress out the window.

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For once we are in complete agreement.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 2/25/2013 1:38:13 PM >

(in reply to Powergamz1)

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

You are surrounded by an enemy that has you vastly outnumbered. Defeat means not the possibility, but the certainty of torture and rape for all those under your protection. I would summon demons from Hell if it would save those people. You might be moral enough to subject your people to very few are. It's easy to critisize from the safty of your den in the field is tougher.

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ORIGINAL: YN


So the proper use of a flag of truce and a parley is to secretly use biological weapons on the other side?

This treachery alone was against the laws of war, such as they were at the time.

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ORIGINAL: YN

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

You are surrounded by an enemy that has you vastly outnumbered. Defeat means not the possibility, but the certainty of torture and rape for all those under your protection. I would summon demons from Hell if it would save those people. You might be moral enough to subject your people to very few are. It's easy to critisize from the safty of your den in the field is tougher.

So the proper use of a flag of truce and a parley is to secretly use biological weapons on the other side?

This treachery alone was against the laws of war, such as they were at the time.

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ORIGINAL: YN

True, and this is merely a subset of the savagery it took Europeans to rob and enslave much of the world.

This dichotomy appears to confuse the lumpenbourgeoisie, who all believe in the nobility of the European ruling class and cannot reconcile this worship of them and their conduct with the brutal history of their empires.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: YN

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

You are surrounded by an enemy that has you vastly outnumbered. Defeat means not the possibility, but the certainty of torture and rape for all those under your protection. I would summon demons from Hell if it would save those people. You might be moral enough to subject your people to very few are. It's easy to critisize from the safty of your den in the field is tougher.

So the proper use of a flag of truce and a parley is to secretly use biological weapons on the other side?

This treachery alone was against the laws of war, such as they were at the time.

Have you given any thought to where the British got the smallpox to expose the blankets to?
This means the mere act of meeting with the British they may well have been exposed.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Have you given any thought to where the British got the smallpox to expose the blankets to?
This means the mere act of meeting with the British they may well have been exposed.

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As opposed to someone who insits on view thier every move in the worst possible light?
Again it is easy to judge when you do not even attempt to put yourself in the others position.

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ORIGINAL: YN

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China together with Russia and India and to a lesser extent the countries of South America are on balance expressing negative views relating to Europe and are quite happy to foster that feeling of disillusionment amongst the indigenous peoples as somehow caused in some part by problems in Europe.

No efforts have been made to address this perception, and foreign powers worldwide are tending to use the excuse of Europe and as a scapegoat for problems caused primarily by their failure to educate their citizens as to the benefits of Europe and as a model for their own success, preferring instead to offer or decline to counteract the populist view.

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After considering what is required to stabilize the EU project as a whole and to educate not only European citizens as to the benefits of the Single Market and a United Strong Europe, but the wider world also, we should provide the equivalent level of budget to enforce and disseminate the virtues of Europe as those who would seek to inform the negative aspects.

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An appropriate budget should be allocated with an initial three million Euros to conduct a detailed feasibility study and to prepare the ground for an extended campaign for the next five years.

We anticipate such a budget should be not less than two hundred and seventy five million Euros each year, with an annual review and cost benefit analysis and with an open mandate to escalate such budget as the need arises.

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

I haven't criticized anything to do with the incident. My only beef was with someone insisting that "there is no evidence it was ever carried out," and lifting a quote out of context to support that assertion.

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ORIGINAL: YN
Put yourself in the shoes of of any European country (Spain, Portugal,England, France, Holland etc) who were part of this worldwide colonial holocaust, Now imagine having to properly explain your nation's colonial conduct, in the case of trying to at least appear contrite.

Would you act as David Cameron did in this case, of going to India, claim a "special relationship" while offering to trade an "apology" for a large military aircraft deal, and expect anyone, let alone the Indians (we have already discussed and posted the negative responses of India,) to think the apology as sincere?