RE: Need some advice on work place abuse (Full Version)

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LafayetteLady -> RE: Need some advice on work place abuse (2/20/2013 10:29:38 PM)

We know what the OP has told us. Oh and many of us are apparently more aware than you regarding the legal issues and the realities of working with the mentally ill.

Quite frankly, if they have to hire a shadow for the OP so she can do her job, they will just eliminate her and keep the shadow.




LafayetteLady -> RE: Need some advice on work place abuse (2/20/2013 10:32:49 PM)

The OP suffered from no physical violence. She is upset because he banged his fist on a table (only a threat to you and her) and the client used profanity that she found offensive, the profanity being the bulk of her issue. So while there are books and books of regs, most of them have to do with what the facility must offer the patients, along with the training necessary for the employees. Honestly, it would seem any violations might be that the OP has not been properly trained.




LafayetteLady -> RE: Need some advice on work place abuse (2/20/2013 10:39:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel


I raised a mentally ill son and never felt threatened by him. I was also in an abusive marriage, so I know very much what abuse looks like, so I'm at all blowing anything out of proportion. And I also have bipolar disorder, so I can relate to how people with a mental illness can often have trouble with anger control. Threatening behavior, intimidation and verbal abuse have nothing to do with anger control. That kind of behavior also has nothing to do with having a mental illness.





Actually, it seems quite the opposite is likely the case with you. I'm very sorry you suffered through an abusive marriage (but glad you escaped from it), however, it seems that it has made you hyper sensitive to the issue and in your determination never to be abused like that again (nor should you), you very likely have a zero tolerance stance on it, and see anyone showing anger in any way towards you as abuse.

You weren't afraid of your son, because he was your son. I don't know (nor do I want to know) if your son suffered the same problem as the clients in your care, but everyone with the same mental illness do not behave the same way.

I think that the time might have come for you to seriously do some self examination and decide whether or not you are a help or a hindrance to the young people in your care. Your job, your duty is to help them, which means you sometimes have to deal with some nasty, bratty youths who treat you poorly. They have zero obligation to you, but you have much obligation to them, and it doesn't seem like you are able to continue to meet that obligation.




erieangel -> RE: Need some advice on work place abuse (2/20/2013 11:16:02 PM)

I'm not mentally unstable. I have bipolar disorder. There is a difference.




littlewonder -> RE: Need some advice on work place abuse (2/20/2013 11:29:05 PM)

I don't think anyone was talking about your bipolar. They were talking about your abuse and control issues and your sensitivity.




BuddyUnholy -> RE: Need some advice on work place abuse (2/20/2013 11:41:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

The more I've thought about it, the more I've come to the conclusion that by expecting me to work in that abusive environment, my supervisor is not only condoning such abuse, but he is also abusing me.


show up at work tomorrow and you can add self-abuse to the list




BuddyUnholy -> RE: Need some advice on work place abuse (2/20/2013 11:50:14 PM)

Honestly though, should you choose to work through it, your supervisor will likely be glad. Should you choose to do something else, your supervisor will likely understand. But if you choose to file a workplace complaint, then you will have delegated the situation to a third party and will have lost the opportunity to handle it yourself. And you may lose a valuable contact in the process. My advice: decide what you really want and commit to it.




ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Need some advice on work place abuse (2/21/2013 4:20:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Any job you take you have the absolute expectation of a safe work environment or the proper training and support when you don't. Negligence in this area opens employers up to legal action...both private and public…and it should.

Butch



Like cops and firemen, right?

There are some jobs where the 'absolute expectation of safety' can not be guaranteed. She's in one of them and can't or won't handle that reality. This is why she's being advised to get out.





angelikaJ -> RE: Need some advice on work place abuse (2/21/2013 4:57:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Notsweet

If there are violent clients, then at no time should the OP be the only one with them. In fact, if there are six, she shouldn't be alone with them. That's simply ridiculous. I have never seen a facility in which this is the case. I'm wondering, in fact, if this is even lawful.

In a facility that treats the mentally ill, violent behavior needs to be addressed. It doesn't make anyone any healthier if there is no consequence for behavior.

I do agree that the OP needs more training in how to interact with the subject of her post. It would be helpful to know what type of mental illness we're talking about.



By law there should be a staffing ratio for the place where she is working.

However, I have not seen any credible evidence that the people for whom she works are actually violent.
That someone got in trouble with a cop off site is not the same thing.

I worked in a house where 4 individuals lived.
We were (state) mandated to maintain a staff level of always 2 and during the peak hours of 4-8pm, had a 3rd.

So, again my question is: what does the behavior plan (or it's equivalent) say regarding this young person's behavior.
It is actually wise if the OP does not answer; it would likely be a HIPPA violation if she did.

I am guessing that this might not be a place where these people live since there is only her and one other staff; that would either mean the supervisor is with them all the time or they are stable enough to be on their own for part of the time...OR it is a day-habilitation type program.

"Verbal abuse" is not an objective thing, what is verbally abusive to me will not be the same as what is verbally abusive to you and is likely to differ from what the OP considers to be verbally abusive.
She has not said that where she works there is a Zero Tolerance Policy regarding verbal abuse, just that in past circumstances another participants in the program has been booted out.
There may have been additional circumstances involved in that decision.

The agency she works for has pressed charges when people have threatened staff embers out in the community.
My guess is that her supervisor does not see this in comparable light with those cases.

I wouldn't either.






ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Need some advice on work place abuse (2/21/2013 5:15:21 AM)

Thank you angelika.

I admire your ability to *consistently* work through the emotional landmines on contentious threads and cut to the facts in a simple, non-judgmental manner.







servantforuse -> RE: Need some advice on work place abuse (2/21/2013 5:20:15 AM)

Exactly right. I worked for the Phone Co. ( at&t ) for 34 years. 20 of those years were spent in Milwaukees inner city. I was robbed twice, dealt with gangs and to many other problems to mention here. I knew what that job would entail when I hired on. Someone pounding on a table would have been an easy day.




DesFIP -> RE: Need some advice on work place abuse (2/21/2013 8:01:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Notsweet

"Suck it up" is not a procedure that is recognized by the JCAHO.

There are procedures in place in all health facilities to protect staff and patients from violent patients. There are books and books and books of regulations that all facilities MUST follow if they want to open the door.

I didn't make it up. It's the law.



But not applicable because she wasn't attacked by a violent patient.

He yelled at her using a curse word and he banged on a table. He didn't hit her. Shit, damn near every teenager in this country has done this at least once during adolescence. Not a reason for parents to call CPS claiming the kid is violent and needs to be removed from the home.




Notsweet -> RE: Need some advice on work place abuse (2/21/2013 8:29:07 AM)

No, but it is certainly hostile behavior. In a mental health facility, appropriate behavior is modeled and taught. I think the OP needs more training, because there are a number of ways to deal with hostile clients/patients. And clearly, the client/patient here needs more training.

There is no comparison between a mental health facility and the job that firefighters, corrections officers and police have. There is a mild comparison to be made in terms of ER or hospitals, because patients can be restrained.

In a mental health facility, clients/patients are ideally being encouraged and taught to engage appropriately. Harrassing and threatening behaviors are to be discouraged. Without seeing the young man, I would guess that his inappropriate behavior is part of his problem. Without knowing the OP, I know that there are regulations and protocols in place in each. and. every. single. health care facility to deal with inappropriate behavior. And there are techniques to deal with inappropriate behavior.

In fact, I'll be paying for learning those techniques until I'm dead, given this mornings bills.




SeekingTrinity -> RE: Need some advice on work place abuse (2/21/2013 8:29:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Perhaps you did not read all of the sentence you quoted... if you did you would have read where I said...."the proper training and support when you don't"

Police and fire...and highway workers, and sanitation workers, that are much more likely to be hurt or injured on the job than fire or police...get the proper training and support.

Many ways... It could just take a more public area... if could be more than one person present when interviewing troubled clients... certainly her complaints must be addressed if within work rules. I don't know her situation and neither do you so why speculate when you can't even make an educated guess?




I FULLY read what you wrote. If you bothered AT ALL to read what I had written to her previously before jumping on your high horse, you would have found that I did not speculate jack shit. I wasnt judging her, I wasnt coming down on her...I asked her very basic things to think about within her own mind and come to her own conclusions on.

Ive been in the jobs that she is currently working and training is provided, but you are working with human beings...not programmed robots. Regardless of the level of training received, there is STILL a risk in this particular field due to the unstable nature of the people she is working with. You cannot guarantee a safe work environment with the occupations I mentioned in my post to you, to the jobs I and others have worked, and the very job the OP has too. Common thread is that you can train until you are blue in the face, but there is still an inherent risk that you elect to take on when you work in some places. Not everything is a legally actionable offense.

I asked you what should be done to ensure a safe environment for her. Should they drug all the clients? Have them arrested for banging on a table? Perhaps lock them away in a state hospital for not being able to control their behavior in a manner that you find appropriate?




kdsub -> RE: Need some advice on work place abuse (2/21/2013 2:03:03 PM)

quote:

I FULLY read what you wrote. If you bothered AT ALL to read what I had written to her previously before jumping on your high horse, you would have found that I did not speculate jack shit. I wasnt judging her, I wasnt coming down on her...I asked her very basic things to think about within her own mind and come to her own conclusions on.


I was not addressing you... you chose to take exception to what I said....It is up to you to make a case to her not to me... what is the problem here? None of us know her duties but you are judging her like you do... I am answering her question not yours. No need to address what I am saying the words are not meant for you.


Butch




SeekingTrinity -> RE: Need some advice on work place abuse (2/21/2013 3:33:10 PM)

Post #26 of yours was directed at me. Now I do realize that it could have been a Fast Reply, so Ill give you that one. But you quoted me in Post #37 and commented on what I had said. So any rational person would naturally assume you are directing comments at me if you are quoting me. If you are going to speak to something Ive said by quoting me, expect a response back. Its just that simple




LafayetteLady -> RE: Need some advice on work place abuse (2/21/2013 4:01:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

.. I am answering her question not yours. No need to address what I am saying the words are not meant for you.


Butch


Really, REALLY get off your high horse. This is a web forum and you are quite aware of how it works.

And when you make a ridiculous statement, you can expect those more knowledgeable of the subject to call bullshit on your statement, so get over yourself.




kdsub -> RE: Need some advice on work place abuse (2/21/2013 4:39:31 PM)

Yes you are right it was not meant for you...that is why I was wondering why you were addressing me. My fault I apologize.

Butch




kdsub -> RE: Need some advice on work place abuse (2/21/2013 4:41:59 PM)

quote:

Really, REALLY get off your high horse. This is a web forum and you are quite aware of how it works.

And when you make a ridiculous statement, you can expect those more knowledgeable of the subject to call bullshit on your statement, so get over yourself.


What bull shit may I ask? I am trying to help someone ...what are you doing? Why all the animosity? If you don't want to help her then why open your mouth.





Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Need some advice on work place abuse (2/21/2013 5:35:33 PM)

When I lived in a level 14 group home, and other group homes i lived in, the kids could be as abusive as they wanted to the staff, they could hit them, they could throw things at them, they could bite them, they could injury the staff, and short of grounding the kid, or putting them in a room in time out away from every one and everything, there wasn't anything the staff could do.

Sure if you lashed out and were violent enough they could talk to your social worker and possibly get you placed somewhere else, like a lock down facility where you could be strapped to the bed and bars on the windows.


But you are probably a different kind of program , than a group home was.


quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

Many of you know that I work residential for a mental health agency. And some of you might remember that I have complained in the past to my supervisor about being verbally abused by my clients. Last summer one young man was evicted from the program for such behavior. Two days ago a young man not only verbally abused but he was punching his fist into a table directly in front in a manner that literally made me scared me for my own safety. I phoned my boss but he said he could not talk; I left work 10 minutes later. My boss did not address the behavior with the young man until the next morning. When talking to my boss yesterday prior to my shift, I was told that the young man was going to apologize to me. While it was an apology I had no intention of accepting because the language he used has become habitual, it did not come. Today, we had a "house meeting" and I gave the young every opportunity to take some responsibility for what he had done and said the other day. Instead, he said that he'd noticed that lately I'm always telling them when to "clean their rooms, when and how to load the dishwasher and do their chores...blah, blah, blah..." Basically, he was complaining about me doing my job.

Anyway, I think I jettisoned my job by telling my boss, who was at the meeting, that I couldn't work in such an abusive environment. I told him that the surroundings have become too abusive for me. That I not only feel uncomfortable, but afraid for my safety, because if somebody is going to punch a table three feet from where I am sitting, it wouldn't be long before that person takes a swing at me. I told him I need to be transferred out of that position immediately. And then I walked out. The more I've thought about it, the more I've come to the conclusion that by expecting me to work in that abusive environment, my supervisor is not only condoning such abuse, but he is also abusing me.

My boss called a couple hours after I left and told me that the young man in question was apologetic about his behavior after I'd left. But he doesn't respect me enough to take responsibility to my face and I told my boss that is a big part of the problem--he doesn't respect women. Most of the guys don't. My boss also said he doesn't know how soon he can get a transfer, or if he can get me transfer, because the agency is undergoing a lot of structural and administrative changes right now--hence the reason I think I may have jettisoned my job. And then there is the issue that I don't really want a transfer. I really do love what I am doing. And why should I have to leave my job because one kid with his head up his ass decides he has a right to be abusive without suffering any consequences--like eviction from the program? Evidently, my boss isn't prepared to evict this particular young man at this time.



quote:

ecause one kid with his head up his ass decides he has a right to be abusive without suffering any con




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