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RE: Conspiracy Theories - HOW TO DEBUNK ANYTHING - 2/24/2013 9:18:24 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fmfclwu


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

The problem with conspiracy theories is that some of them are true. Heck, regarding my "conspiracy theory" regarding the Fed above, it's not even a theory. You got a group of private people controlling the US monetary supply that have never been audited and resist any attempt to audit. Anyone who finds that "credible" I'd like to do business with myself.


If you're referring to Ron Paul's "audit the Fed!" crusade, he was abusing the word "audit" worse than any sub on this site has ever been abused. The Fed publishes its balance sheet publicly, and publicly releases the minutes of all its meetings on a one-month lag. What possible meaning of the word "audit" could you apply to the Fed that would increase that transparency? Ron Paul's meaning of "audit" wasn't the English definition, it was a backdoor way of eventually letting Congress take over the Fed so he could try to force us back onto the gold standard.

Not true at all, show me a link to a complete independent fed audit. You are correct though, wouldn't do any good.

However, I do not regard the fed as a conspiracy theory, they (12 banks) owning in part the whole banking system requiring bank membership and in fact are simply a profit center. What the economic scientist concerns himself with is that it is not much different than the soviet politburo (economic central planners) but concerned only with money supply.

My whole problem with the fed and our monetary system is that the rationale for creating it was to steady the money supply, it has not, prevent bubbles and recessions, it has not and to prevent inflation...a complete failure with 2000% since its creation.

Returning to the gold standard is another ruse to misdirect criticism. We would do what got Kennedy killed (many say) confiscating fed reserve notes and issuing silver certificates from the US Treasury.

There isn't enough silver or gold in the world to satisfy current 'currency' needs anyway. They've printing money ever since the cut off of supply finally finished off the last 16,000 private banks during the great depression. Mission accomplished, the party was on.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 2/24/2013 9:31:36 PM >

(in reply to fmfclwu)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Conspiracy Theories - HOW TO DEBUNK ANYTHING - 2/24/2013 9:35:49 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: fmfclwu


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

The problem with conspiracy theories is that some of them are true. Heck, regarding my "conspiracy theory" regarding the Fed above, it's not even a theory. You got a group of private people controlling the US monetary supply that have never been audited and resist any attempt to audit. Anyone who finds that "credible" I'd like to do business with myself.


If you're referring to Ron Paul's "audit the Fed!" crusade, he was abusing the word "audit" worse than any sub on this site has ever been abused. The Fed publishes its balance sheet publicly, and publicly releases the minutes of all its meetings on a one-month lag. What possible meaning of the word "audit" could you apply to the Fed that would increase that transparency? Ron Paul's meaning of "audit" wasn't the English definition, it was a backdoor way of eventually letting Congress take over the Fed so he could try to force us back onto the gold standard.

Not true at all, show me a link to a complete independent fed audit. You are correct though, wouldn't do any good.

complete independent federal reserve system audit
http://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/bst_fedfinancials.htm

Ron Paul is, as usual, a liar.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Conspiracy Theories - HOW TO DEBUNK ANYTHING - 2/24/2013 10:04:13 PM   
fmfclwu


Posts: 74
Joined: 5/3/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Not true at all, show me a link to a complete independent fed audit. You are correct though, wouldn't do any good.

However, I do not regard the fed as a conspiracy theory, they (12 banks) owning in part the whole banking system requiring bank membership and in fact are simply a profit center. What the economic scientist concerns himself with is that it is not much different than the soviet politburo (economic central planners) but concerned only with money supply.

My whole problem with the fed and our monetary system is that the rationale for creating it was to steady the money supply, it has not, prevent bubbles and recessions, it has not and to prevent inflation...a complete failure with 2000% since its creation.

Returning to the gold standard is another ruse to misdirect criticism. We would do what got Kennedy killed (many say) confiscating fed reserve notes and issuing silver certificates from the US Treasury.

There isn't enough silver or gold in the world to satisfy current 'currency' needs anyway. They've printing money ever since the cut off of supply finally finished off the last 16,000 private banks during the great depression. Mission accomplished, the party was on.


Once again, I ask, what's to audit. An audit is an independent examination of private records, like the specific details of a company's holdings beyond just the broad categories on a balance sheet, to verify that the public information is accurate. But nothing the fed holds is private! You can go look it all up! YOU could go audit the fed right now, because you can see the details!

And if you think fiat money hasn't stabilized things, you haven't done much research into pre-Fed economic history. It used to be common to swing from 10+% inflation to 10+% deflation from year to year. Even despite the chaos of the last few years, we've managed to keep inflation between 1 and 2 percent, which is pretty amazing compared to pre-Fed recessions (which struck approximately once every 3 years, pre-FDIC).

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Conspiracy Theories - HOW TO DEBUNK ANYTHING - 2/24/2013 10:19:50 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: fmfclwu


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

The problem with conspiracy theories is that some of them are true. Heck, regarding my "conspiracy theory" regarding the Fed above, it's not even a theory. You got a group of private people controlling the US monetary supply that have never been audited and resist any attempt to audit. Anyone who finds that "credible" I'd like to do business with myself.


If you're referring to Ron Paul's "audit the Fed!" crusade, he was abusing the word "audit" worse than any sub on this site has ever been abused. The Fed publishes its balance sheet publicly, and publicly releases the minutes of all its meetings on a one-month lag. What possible meaning of the word "audit" could you apply to the Fed that would increase that transparency? Ron Paul's meaning of "audit" wasn't the English definition, it was a backdoor way of eventually letting Congress take over the Fed so he could try to force us back onto the gold standard.

Not true at all, show me a link to a complete independent fed audit. You are correct though, wouldn't do any good.

complete independent federal reserve system audit
http://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/bst_fedfinancials.htm

Ron Paul is, as usual, a liar.

Very interesting and of course we are all to accept this as a complete independent audit. However, I have a couple of reservations.

1) All financial information included in the quarterly financial report is unaudited.

Audited Annual Financial Statements

◾Federal Reserve Banks Combined Quarterly Financial Reports (Unaudited)


Then in the introduction of the difference in these audits.....

SIGNIFICANT ACCOUNTING POLICIES

Accounting principles for entities with the unique powers and responsibilities of a nation's central bank have not been formulated by accounting standard-setting bodies. The Board of Governors has developed specialized accounting principles and practices that it considers to be appropriate for the nature and function of a central bank. These accounting principles and practices are documented in the Financial Accounting Manual for Federal Reserve Banks (FAM), which is issued by the Board of Governors. The Reserve Banks are required to adopt and apply accounting policies and practices that are consistent with the FAM and the combined financial statements have been prepared in accordance with the FAM.

Limited differences exist between the accounting principles and practices in the FAM and accounting principles generally accepted in the United States of America (GAAP), due to the unique nature of the Reserve Banks' powers and responsibilities as part of the nation's central bank and given the System's unique responsibility to conduct monetary policy. The primary differences are the presentation of all SOMA securities holdings at amortized cost and the recording of SOMA securities on a settlement-date basis. Amortized cost, rather than the fair value presentation, more appropriately reflects the Reserve Banks' securities holdings given the System's unique responsibility to conduct monetary policy......

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Conspiracy Theories - HOW TO DEBUNK ANYTHING - 2/24/2013 10:25:24 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Not true at all, show me a link to a complete independent fed audit. You are correct though, wouldn't do any good.

complete independent federal reserve system audit
http://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/bst_fedfinancials.htm

Ron Paul is, as usual, a liar.

Nice try, but the problem here isn't liars. Or at least, it's not the one's being called "liars".
    It's important though not to confuse the aim of the bill with a financial audit. The Federal Reserve's finances are already audited every year by an independent accounting firm. (Last year it was Deloitte and Touche). The central bank also publishes its balance sheet every Thursday online.

    Instead, what Paul is aiming for is a full investigation of the way the Fed determines monetary policy.

    Those deliberations currently take place behind closed doors. Minutes are released with a three-week lag, and full transcripts are published only five years after the fact...

    Bernanke said he could envision a "nightmare scenario" where Congress would disagree with a Fed decision on interest rates and try to get other agencies, such as the Government Accountability Office, to review it.

    Current law also protects the Federal Reserve from audits that reveal transactions with foreign central banks and governments, the reserves of its member banks and discussions among its employees about these issues.
Source of the above: CNN
    The results were truly staggering. Over $16,000,000,000,000.00 has been given in bailouts to banks and other corporations throughout the world from December 2007 – June 2010...

    According to the TARP, only $700 billion was supposedly given out to faltering banks and companies. However, Citigroup alone received $2.5 trillion. The Fed loaned money to banks in France, Scotland, and Belgium. Here is the list of some institutions that received the most money on page 131 of the report...

    According to Senator Bernie Sanders, “This is a clear case of socialism for the rich and rugged, you're-on-your-own individualism for everyone else.”
Source of the above: Policymic

The report referred to by Policymic was prepared by the GAO and is available here:

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/GAO%20Fed%20Investigation.pdf

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 2/24/2013 10:36:00 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Conspiracy Theories - HOW TO DEBUNK ANYTHING - 2/24/2013 10:58:28 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
Like I've been saying, a large part of American exceptionalism is that we created the richest socialists in history.

Plus, talk about operating with a sense of entitlement creating a culture of dependency, i.e., the left-liberal welfare state, Hank Greenburg, former CEO and stock holder of AIG, actually sues the feds for a bad deal bailing out what was a ruthless, greedy, law breaking insurance firm that was facing chapter 7...i.e., liquidation.

One poster at the Washpost argued Greenburg was suing over [it] being such a bad deal, iot amounted to a govt. 'taking' (of private property) which gives chutzpa a new meaning because AIG like most of wall street et all, has no 'property' to take. All they have is paper and in this case more than ever...shit-paper.

BTW has everybody here stocked up on their new 'Variable Prepaid Forwards ?' Another OP (on another innovation called paper) from the greedy capitalist scum culture we've created there...coming soon to your blog.

What I do not understand and may never, with many trillions being thrown around, how is it that anybody on wall street needs our paltry $700 billion ? You know...TARP, the Taxpayer, Ass-Reaming Program.'

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Conspiracy Theories - HOW TO DEBUNK ANYTHING - 2/24/2013 11:32:20 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fmfclwu


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Not true at all, show me a link to a complete independent fed audit. You are correct though, wouldn't do any good.

However, I do not regard the fed as a conspiracy theory, they (12 banks) owning in part the whole banking system requiring bank membership and in fact are simply a profit center. What the economic scientist concerns himself with is that it is not much different than the soviet politburo (economic central planners) but concerned only with money supply.

My whole problem with the fed and our monetary system is that the rationale for creating it was to steady the money supply, it has not, prevent bubbles and recessions, it has not and to prevent inflation...a complete failure with 2000% since its creation.

Returning to the gold standard is another ruse to misdirect criticism. We would do what got Kennedy killed (many say) confiscating fed reserve notes and issuing silver certificates from the US Treasury.

There isn't enough silver or gold in the world to satisfy current 'currency' needs anyway. They've printing money ever since the cut off of supply finally finished off the last 16,000 private banks during the great depression. Mission accomplished, the party was on.


Once again, I ask, what's to audit. An audit is an independent examination of private records, like the specific details of a company's holdings beyond just the broad categories on a balance sheet, to verify that the public information is accurate. But nothing the fed holds is private! You can go look it all up! YOU could go audit the fed right now, because you can see the details!

And if you think fiat money hasn't stabilized things, you haven't done much research into pre-Fed economic history. It used to be common to swing from 10+% inflation to 10+% deflation from year to year. Even despite the chaos of the last few years, we've managed to keep inflation between 1 and 2 percent, which is pretty amazing compared to pre-Fed recessions (which struck approximately once every 3 years, pre-FDIC).

Oh I agree with you in as much as the existence of the fed is a fait accompli but 80% is privately owned (private stock) and [it] is limited to 6% return on capital or profit. So I also realize that any audit isn't going to change anything at all about our monetary system.

However, those economic scientists I spoke of earlier and through some fairly extensive research estimated that from the 1790's to about the 1930's (140 years) the US 'suffered' about 17% TOTAL inflation.

An example of which is discovered when researching home prices for example. Suburban Phil. post civil war housing in an article 'The building Association that does no building' that helped finance 100,000 single family homes circa 1870's on, found at the time, the typical four bedroom colonial sold for $1,500.

I know from close personal knowledge that in fact 1920's single family, four bedroom colonials in Detroit which was booming as most cities were being wired for electricity and on public sewer and water...sold for $1,500.

Doesn't take a slide rule to estimate say ZERO inflation in housing over 50 years. Now let's look at the last 50 years or just about any 50 year period post WWII. Levittown and other similar communities opened with the typical 3 bedroom 1 bath rambler $9,000 circa 1950, year 2000, $400,000.
You do the math.

Furthermore, those swings in inflation and deflation you speak of most will tell you, were either caused by the monetary system that Franklin said was the product of the Bank of England and the costs of being subject to its money supply followed by the period after Lincoln's death the US returned to each bank issuing its own currency which was soaked with corruption and this subject also to huge swings in prices.

Suffice it to say had the US (treasury) maintained control of the US dollar or silver certificates from 1790 to 1913, and continued today...we'd all be in much better shape with a far greater value to the dollar.


< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 2/24/2013 11:33:36 PM >

(in reply to fmfclwu)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Conspiracy Theories - HOW TO DEBUNK ANYTHING - 2/25/2013 1:31:49 AM   
TAFKAA


Posts: 382
Joined: 1/5/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Oh please, the government is, or part of the government was, behind...

The JFK assassination, FEMA detention centers, faked moon landing, hiding the truth about Roswell, New Coke, chicken and waffle potato chips, reality tv (an effort to control the masses through mindless tv programing,) supporting the alien house cat invasion and take over of the planet, the exploration of women by the NFL (cheerleaders,) and of course the coverup of the fact that President Obama was not born in this country, or even on this planet, he is an alien in league with the house cats, and of course the death of superman in the comics, not to mention substandard porn that consists of one mindless sex act after another with no plot line whatsoever.

OF course there is the following to consider, Al Qaeda is a CIA cover for covert operations against the US, and the free world. The Free Masons are behind 9/11 and the current economic down turn, Goldman Sachs is trying to corner the banking industry market of venture capital for companies who market fresh bovine produced all natural fertilizer...

Finally The heretic and I are agents of the NWO and Illuminati in charge of monitoring the online BDSM community, spreading disinformation concerning the activities of both political parties, and making a list of conspiracy theorists who have gotten too close to the truth and need to be rounded up and put in reeducation camps to become mindless minions of the Conch Republic spreading the good news about the coming of the one true god, Bob, and his prophet Dora the Explorer.

Have I missed anything?
The only conspiracy is why I was not invited to take place in the NFL's exploration of women. I would've been prepared to do my part for humanity.

_____________________________

The asshole formerly known as Awareness

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Conspiracy Theories - HOW TO DEBUNK ANYTHING - 2/25/2013 2:46:01 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: fmfclwu


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

The problem with conspiracy theories is that some of them are true. Heck, regarding my "conspiracy theory" regarding the Fed above, it's not even a theory. You got a group of private people controlling the US monetary supply that have never been audited and resist any attempt to audit. Anyone who finds that "credible" I'd like to do business with myself.


If you're referring to Ron Paul's "audit the Fed!" crusade, he was abusing the word "audit" worse than any sub on this site has ever been abused. The Fed publishes its balance sheet publicly, and publicly releases the minutes of all its meetings on a one-month lag. What possible meaning of the word "audit" could you apply to the Fed that would increase that transparency? Ron Paul's meaning of "audit" wasn't the English definition, it was a backdoor way of eventually letting Congress take over the Fed so he could try to force us back onto the gold standard.

Not true at all, show me a link to a complete independent fed audit. You are correct though, wouldn't do any good.

complete independent federal reserve system audit
http://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/bst_fedfinancials.htm

Ron Paul is, as usual, a liar.

Very interesting and of course we are all to accept this as a complete independent audit.

If you don't go whine to Deloitte and Touche.

BTW the complete audit is further down the page than where you stopped. The heading "Audited Annual Financial Statements of the Federal Reserve System" should have given it away.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Conspiracy Theories - HOW TO DEBUNK ANYTHING - 2/25/2013 2:48:56 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Not true at all, show me a link to a complete independent fed audit. You are correct though, wouldn't do any good.

complete independent federal reserve system audit
http://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/bst_fedfinancials.htm

Ron Paul is, as usual, a liar.

Nice try, but the problem here isn't liars. Or at least, it's not the one's being called "liars".
    It's important though not to confuse the aim of the bill with a financial audit. The Federal Reserve's finances are already audited every year by an independent accounting firm. (Last year it was Deloitte and Touche). The central bank also publishes its balance sheet every Thursday online.

    Instead, what Paul is aiming for is a full investigation of the way the Fed determines monetary policy.

    Those deliberations currently take place behind closed doors. Minutes are released with a three-week lag, and full transcripts are published only five years after the fact...

    Bernanke said he could envision a "nightmare scenario" where Congress would disagree with a Fed decision on interest rates and try to get other agencies, such as the Government Accountability Office, to review it.

    Current law also protects the Federal Reserve from audits that reveal transactions with foreign central banks and governments, the reserves of its member banks and discussions among its employees about these issues.
Source of the above: CNN
    The results were truly staggering. Over $16,000,000,000,000.00 has been given in bailouts to banks and other corporations throughout the world from December 2007 – June 2010...

    According to the TARP, only $700 billion was supposedly given out to faltering banks and companies. However, Citigroup alone received $2.5 trillion. The Fed loaned money to banks in France, Scotland, and Belgium. Here is the list of some institutions that received the most money on page 131 of the report...

    According to Senator Bernie Sanders, “This is a clear case of socialism for the rich and rugged, you're-on-your-own individualism for everyone else.”

Source of the above: Policymic

The report referred to by Policymic was prepared by the GAO and is available here:

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/GAO%20Fed%20Investigation.pdf

K.


Paul is still lying.

What he claims to want is not an audit and is anathema to the very idea of having an independent central bank. We, and much of the rest of the west, tried having a central bank that was subject to the whims of the legislature and it was an unmitigated disaster. That's why we went to the Federal Reserve system in the first place.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Conspiracy Theories - HOW TO DEBUNK ANYTHING - 2/25/2013 3:31:11 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Paul is still lying.

What he claims to want is not an audit...

I'd take care if I were you. Accusations of lying have a way of backfiring. Just to take a case in point, an audit is an "inspection or examination". You can audit an entity's energy usage, policy compliance, or any other damn thing.

K.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Conspiracy Theories - HOW TO DEBUNK ANYTHING - 2/25/2013 10:16:14 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
What he claims to want is not an audit and is anathema to the very idea of having an independent central bank.

For starters, I didn't vote for Ron Paul and I mistrust him. Secondly, the idea that an "independent central bank" is a good thing seems suicidal to me.

Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who makes its laws.
-- Mayer Amschel Rothschild


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Conspiracy Theories - HOW TO DEBUNK ANYTHING - 2/25/2013 10:57:27 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Paul is still lying.

What he claims to want is not an audit...

I'd take care if I were you. Accusations of lying have a way of backfiring. Just to take a case in point, an audit is an "inspection or examination". You can audit an entity's energy usage, policy compliance, or any other damn thing.

K.


An audit when discussing a financial entity has a specific meaning. Paul is a liar, both on this and on numerous other things.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Conspiracy Theories - HOW TO DEBUNK ANYTHING - 2/25/2013 10:58:47 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
What he claims to want is not an audit and is anathema to the very idea of having an independent central bank.

For starters, I didn't vote for Ron Paul and I mistrust him. Secondly, the idea that an "independent central bank" is a good thing seems suicidal to me.

Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who makes its laws.
-- Mayer Amschel Rothschild


Study the economic history of this nation.  Prior to the creation of the fed we routinely had bank panics and deep deflationary periods.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Conspiracy Theories - HOW TO DEBUNK ANYTHING - 2/25/2013 11:11:41 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

An audit when discussing a financial entity has a specific meaning. Paul is a liar, both on this and on numerous other things.



K.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Conspiracy Theories - HOW TO DEBUNK ANYTHING - 2/25/2013 1:02:13 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
An audit when discussing a financial entity has a specific meaning. Paul is a liar, both on this and on numerous other things.

Fair enough and I stand corrected. I withdraw my use of the word "audit".


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Conspiracy Theories - HOW TO DEBUNK ANYTHING - 2/25/2013 1:56:08 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: TAFKAA

Conspiracy theorists debunk themselves. Most of them are simpletons parroting nonsense they've been told by other conspiracy theorists. No debunking required.

Course that's not true. That's like saying there has been no conspiracies and we all know there have been many very successful conspiracies.


I've got to stop you there. It's certainly a valid point that not every conspiracy theory is immediately self debunking. But it seems as though TAFKAA has acknowledged this with the qualifier "most".

You can't validly ignore that conditional qualifier, it's an important part of his position.


Personally I don't know if it's a matter of "most" or just many but there's a notable pattern of conspiracy theorists having issues with logical thought. Things like circular reasoning and appeals to paranoia tend to show up, but this is my favorite:

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/29/flat-earth-society-psychology_n_2038198.html
The theory follows from a mode of thought called the "Zetetic Method," an alternative to the scientific method, developed by a 19th-century flat-earther, in which sensory observations reign supreme. "Broadly, the method places a lot of emphasis on reconciling empiricism and rationalism, and making logical deductions based on empirical data," Flat Earth Society vice president Michael Wilmore, an Irishman, told Life's Little Mysteries. In Zetetic astronomy, the perception that Earth is flat leads to the deduction that it must actually be flat; the antimoon, NASA conspiracy and all the rest of it are just rationalizations for how that might work in practice.

These guys have recognized that their conspiracy theory fails so soundly according to accepted methods of evaluating evidence that they've gone and invented their own method to prop up the conspiracy theory.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Conspiracy Theories - HOW TO DEBUNK ANYTHING - 2/25/2013 2:16:10 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
An audit when discussing a financial entity has a specific meaning. Paul is a liar, both on this and on numerous other things.

Fair enough and I stand corrected. I withdraw my use of the word "audit".


However, I will not withdraw my use of the word...unaudited.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Conspiracy Theories - HOW TO DEBUNK ANYTHING - 2/25/2013 2:24:21 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
the Fed is always independently audited.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Conspiracy Theories - HOW TO DEBUNK ANYTHING - 2/25/2013 2:24:56 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
What he claims to want is not an audit and is anathema to the very idea of having an independent central bank.

For starters, I didn't vote for Ron Paul and I mistrust him. Secondly, the idea that an "independent central bank" is a good thing seems suicidal to me.

Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who makes its laws.
-- Mayer Amschel Rothschild


Study the economic history of this nation.  Prior to the creation of the fed we routinely had bank panics and deep deflationary periods.

That's because as all too typically American...we (western, i.e., British) had corrupt banks and bankers. Mostly running off with other peoples' money. That is among the quickest recipes for deflation.

There was inflation and deflation, recession and bubbles throughout the 1700's. Inquiries upon Ben Franklin and he put it on the Bank of England and being slave to its currency, (money supply chief among them) He said that was the single biggest cause of American/British aristocracy actually revolting against the crown.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 40
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