|
WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Conspiracy Theories - HOW TO DEBUNK ANYTHING (2/27/2013 11:07:52 AM)
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
quote:
ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
That the world was flat was fact for 1000's of years and was still accepted fact for 300 more years until as most pre-Socratics beliefs retained the flat Earth model.
A spherical earth wasn't even serious conjecture...until 300 BC, so for about 3 centuries more even the few Greek theories were still conspiracies and not universally accepted scientific truths. The Chinese until the 17th century believed the world was flat.
Fact is, power tells you what they want you to know and is far, far too often accepted as fact. Science today is far too often misused in attempts to obscure or deny facts that might mitigate that power.
yer trotting out tha flat earth conspiracy argument again when ya failed ta prove it was any sort of conspiracy. many folks believed tha world was flat. many academics thought different. few folks had access ta a telescope or even tha ability ta write in those days. there wasnt even a real discipline of "science" until tha 1800s. before that there was a lotta speculative work by philosophers & theologians so no conspiracy ta cover up unless you can prove otherwise. if ya can please do. [X(]
Ok let's dispense with the flat earth because the dispute was not settled church (power) policy or dogma and at various times proved incorrect. The idea that the world was flat was not important to power. Much more important was the absolute assertion that the world was at the center of the univ.
are you accepting tha spherical earth theory wasnt a conspiracy?
quote:
Yes, the concept that the earth was not at the center was what cast Galileo into trouble for which he was 'imprisoned' and yes, pre Renaissance. There was never any thought in investigating Galileo's assertion. (don't even need to look into your telescope, we already know you are wrong) That was required church dogma to help assert their power and control.
The whole concept was that to suggest that the world as well as other bodies revolved around the sun, was the prevailing conspiracy theory and the idea is that even some of the most ridiculed theories...could in fact be true.
But when it suits power, there is no reason to collect and investigate evidence to back up your theory...we already know you are wrong.
cant be a conspiracy theory because it was not obvious tha earth revolved round tha sun to anyone cept the new copernican scientists. plus tha church literally thought it went against tha word of God in tha bible. those people literally thought tha word of God was the only absolute truth. like i said it was just a case of very modern ideas clashing with older religious dogma. that stuff happened a lot even today. plus tha pope didnt want ta completely suppress galileos ideas but galileo was seen to have insulted tha pope http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei#Controversy_over_heliocentrism
quote:
Galileo's championing of heliocentrism was controversial within his lifetime, when most subscribed to either geocentrism or the Tychonic system.[9] He met with opposition from astronomers, who doubted heliocentrism due to the absence of an observed stellar parallax.[9] The matter was investigated by the Roman Inquisition in 1615, and they concluded that it could be supported as only a possibility, not an established fact.[9][10] Galileo later defended his views in Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, which appeared to attack Pope Urban VIII and thus alienated him and the Jesuits, who had both supported Galileo up until this point...
Earlier, Pope Urban VIII had personally asked Galileo to give arguments for and against heliocentrism in the book, and to be careful not to advocate heliocentrism. He made another request, that his own views on the matter be included in Galileo's book. Only the latter of those requests was fulfilled by Galileo. Whether unknowingly or deliberately, Simplicio, the defender of the Aristotelian Geocentric view in Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, was often caught in his own errors and sometimes came across as a fool. Indeed, although Galileo states in the preface of his book that the character is named after a famous Aristotelian philosopher (Simplicius in Latin, Simplicio in Italian), the name "Simplicio" in Italian also has the connotation of "simpleton".[56] This portrayal of Simplicio made Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems appear as an advocacy book: an attack on Aristotelian geocentrism and defence of the Copernican theory. Unfortunately for his relationship with the Pope, Galileo put the words of Urban VIII into the mouth of Simplicio. Most historians agree Galileo did not act out of malice and felt blindsided by the reaction to his book.[57] However, the Pope did not take the suspected public ridicule lightly, nor the Copernican advocacy. Galileo had alienated one of his biggest and most powerful supporters, the Pope, and was called to Rome to defend his writings.
In September 1632, Galileo was ordered to come to Rome to stand trial. He finally arrived in February 1633 and was brought before inquisitor Vincenzo Maculani to be charged. Throughout his trial Galileo steadfastly maintained that since 1616 he had faithfully kept his promise not to hold any of the condemned opinions, and initially he denied even defending them. However, he was eventually persuaded to admit that, contrary to his true intention, a reader of his Dialogue could well have obtained the impression that it was intended to be a defence of Copernicanism. In view of Galileo's rather implausible denial that he had ever held Copernican ideas after 1616 or ever intended to defend them in the Dialogue, his final interrogation, in July 1633, concluded with his being threatened with torture if he did not tell the truth, but he maintained his denial despite the threat.
|
|
|
|
