RE: does Anyone seek a male wife??

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Baroana -> RE: does Anyone seek a male wife?? (3/9/2013 7:40:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009 quote: ORIGINAL: MAINEiacMISTRESS Then perhaps "house husband" would be a better term. I find your use of "wife" to denote "submissive" to be HIGHLY offensive ...... Like many women, I--as a WIFE--have enjoyed a higher income than My vanilla husband....... So, yeah..."wife" is not the term you are looking for if you mean "stay-at-home submissive". Actually, it IS the term he is looking for. The "male wife" concept is an old and longstanding part of the BDSM world. The OP didn't just make it up. So why are you ladies attacking him on it? I just don't get this. I do understand why you are offended. You are happy to be wives, and you don't like the word being used in any light other than the wholesome way in which you see it. But that's simply not the way things work in the BDSM world. There are MANY words that get commandeered for our unique usage. Is the term "Daddy Dom" offensive to real fathers? Is "mommy Domme" offensive to mothers? Is "Slave" offensive to the ancestors of former slaves? Is "sissy maid" offensive to housekeepers? Is the BDSM idea of a "1950's household" offensive to those who actually lived during the 1950's? The answer to each of these questions is obviously "yes, it may be offensive to some". But they are the terms that we use, and it's unlikely that will change. It's certainly not going to change simply because it offends you. BDSM has an amazing potential to offend. Most fathers would be incredibly offended if they discovered that their daughters served as "slaves" in M/s dynamic. Many African-Americans (like myself) dislike race play. You obviously dislike the term "male wife". And that's fine. But you can't tell someone that they are using the wrong term, when it's actually the term that has been established by the BDSM community at large. People in M/s relationships are not going to stop using the term "slave" simply because some people find it uncomfortable. So while I respect and acknowledge your (and Baronana's) right to be offended, it just seems like a fruitless battle. The OP did not create the term. It's been around for a long time, and it isn't going away. Actually, no. I've never liked the term wife, and I like it even less now.

Baroana -> RE: does Anyone seek a male wife?? (3/9/2013 7:44:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009 quote: ORIGINAL: MAINEiacMISTRESS Then perhaps "house husband" would be a better term. I find your use of "wife" to denote "submissive" to be HIGHLY offensive ...... Like many women, I--as a WIFE--have enjoyed a higher income than My vanilla husband....... So, yeah..."wife" is not the term you are looking for if you mean "stay-at-home submissive". BDSM has an amazing potential to offend. Most fathers would be incredibly offended if they discovered that their daughters served as "slaves" in M/s dynamic. Many African-Americans (like myself) dislike race play. You obviously dislike the term "male wife". And that's fine. But you can't tell someone that they are using the wrong term, when it's actually the term that has been established by the BDSM community at large. I didn't quite see it as being the wrong term, per se. I was hoping to point out that maybe the OP's views on what constitutes a submissive partner could use some rethinking. I'm going to go there. How would you react if I posted a thread as a submissive asking if anyone would like to make me their "white n______."

Rochsub2009 -> RE: does Anyone seek a male wife?? (3/9/2013 7:48:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Baroana quote: ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009 quote: ORIGINAL: MAINEiacMISTRESS Then perhaps "house husband" would be a better term. I find your use of "wife" to denote "submissive" to be HIGHLY offensive ...... Like many women, I--as a WIFE--have enjoyed a higher income than My vanilla husband....... So, yeah..."wife" is not the term you are looking for if you mean "stay-at-home submissive". BDSM has an amazing potential to offend. Most fathers would be incredibly offended if they discovered that their daughters served as "slaves" in M/s dynamic. Many African-Americans (like myself) dislike race play. You obviously dislike the term "male wife". And that's fine. But you can't tell someone that they are using the wrong term, when it's actually the term that has been established by the BDSM community at large. I didn't quite see it as being the wrong term, per se. I was hoping to point out that maybe the OP's views on what constitutes a submissive partner could use some rethinking. I'm going to go there. How would you react if I posted a thread as a submissive asking if anyone would like to make me their "white n______." But that isn't a generally used term in the BDSM community. At least not any that I've been a part of. So I would assume that you were expressing your personal thoughts/opinions/views/values. But if you were to start a thread asking if anyone would make you their "slave", then I wouldn't think twice about it. That is the word that we use in the BDSM community (though that doesn't make it right). ETA: I actually wouldn't react negatively if you were to start the thread that you mentioned. I just don't have a very well developed offense gland. There are few things that people can say on a message board that will offend me. I recognize that the internet is a subset of the real world. All types of attitudes and opinions are represented in the real world. And I don't believe that I can successfully change those attitudes and opinions, so I simply ignore those that I don't agree with.

Baroana -> RE: does Anyone seek a male wife?? (3/9/2013 7:51:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009 quote: ORIGINAL: Baroana quote: ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009 quote: ORIGINAL: MAINEiacMISTRESS Then perhaps "house husband" would be a better term. I find your use of "wife" to denote "submissive" to be HIGHLY offensive ...... Like many women, I--as a WIFE--have enjoyed a higher income than My vanilla husband....... So, yeah..."wife" is not the term you are looking for if you mean "stay-at-home submissive". BDSM has an amazing potential to offend. Most fathers would be incredibly offended if they discovered that their daughters served as "slaves" in M/s dynamic. Many African-Americans (like myself) dislike race play. You obviously dislike the term "male wife". And that's fine. But you can't tell someone that they are using the wrong term, when it's actually the term that has been established by the BDSM community at large. I didn't quite see it as being the wrong term, per se. I was hoping to point out that maybe the OP's views on what constitutes a submissive partner could use some rethinking. I'm going to go there. How would you react if I posted a thread as a submissive asking if anyone would like to make me their "white n______." But that isn't a generally used term in the BDSM community. At least not any that I've been a part of. So I would assume that you were expressing your personal thoughts/opinions/views/values. But if you were to start a thread asking if anyone would make you their "slave", then I wouldn't think twice about it. That is the word that we use in the BDSM community (though that doesn't make it right). Hmmmm... maybe the more savory types you hang around don't use it, but I've seen a lot of fucked up shit on the internet. Edit: You do have a point about the word "slave." Granted, it's much older than American history, but I'm going to give that some thought.

JeffBC -> RE: does Anyone seek a male wife?? (3/9/2013 7:55:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009 But that isn't a generally used term in the BDSM community. At least not any that I've been a part of. So I would assume that you were expressing your personal thoughts/opinions/views/values. I would not. I would wonder if I was looking at yet another term developing in the BDSM community that was carefully calculated to shock. That is kind of the norm. In a community where "being shocking" is so valued I assume such terminology must be bubbling up all the time. But yeah, I think it's high time that feminism mounted an assault on kink. We need more of that shit.

Rochsub2009 -> RE: does Anyone seek a male wife?? (3/9/2013 7:57:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Baroana Hmmmm... maybe the more savory types you hang around don't use it, but I've seen a lot of fucked up shit on the internet. I tend to base my opinions on what I see at munches, play parties, seminars, and BDSM conferences/events. The internet isn't a good representation of anything that I see in real life. For example, I have never met a "financial Domme" or had anyone demand "tribute" at a real-life event. But I see that crap on-line all the time. To me, the internet is fantasy. It just doesn't always represent what's really happening in the BDSM community (IMO).

Baroana -> RE: does Anyone seek a male wife?? (3/9/2013 8:00:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009 quote: ORIGINAL: Baroana Hmmmm... maybe the more savory types you hang around don't use it, but I've seen a lot of fucked up shit on the internet. For example, I have never met a "financial Domme" or had anyone demand "tribute" at a real-life event. But I see that crap on-line all the time. Lol. No? They don't have a convention, or an ice cream social ... sewing circle ... anything?

Rochsub2009 -> RE: does Anyone seek a male wife?? (3/9/2013 8:10:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC I would not. I would wonder if I was looking at yet another term developing in the BDSM community that was carefully calculated to shock. That is kind of the norm. In a community where "being shocking" is so valued I assume such terminology must be bubbling up all the time. That's an interesting thought. I never really thought that the BDSM community looks for shock simply to be shocking. But perhaps I'm wrong. Some of the most offensive things that I see in the BDSM community are usually done by those who should be most offended by it. For example, you wouldn't believe how often I see white males approaching black females with requests to serve a "superior black Mistress". They go on to talk about their tiny white "dicklet", and then talk about how all white men should serve "superior black Mistresses, and be forced to suck BBC". Similarly, I see plenty of threads of Fetlife where black subs/slaves ask white Doms/Dommes to use them as their "nigger slave". You would think that the black person would be offended by this, but they are usually the ones initiating the conversations. I'm not sure if it's "shock" that the BDSM community seeks. Rather, I think that humiliation plays such a strong role in some people's kink that they do things that are inherently shocking. Think about how often we've had the conversation around here about why women find the topic of "forced feminization" to be offensive. The ladies on here have often let us know that they don't see anything about femininity to be humiliating. Yet, I don't think the males who engage in forced fem intended to be "shocking". They simply didn't think about the perspective that the ladies so often share. I think that's basically what is happening in this conversation. Baroana mentions a valid concern. But I don't think the OP meant any harm or intended to be disrespectful to women.

Rochsub2009 -> RE: does Anyone seek a male wife?? (3/9/2013 8:15:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Baroana Lol. No? They don't have a convention, or an ice cream social ... sewing circle ... anything? Not that I've ever seen. But Allison or TNDommeK may say that they ask complete strangers for tribute at their local munches. But I've never seen anything like that. As far as I know, that aspect of BDSM is a direct result of the internet. But it would actually be interesting to see who would show up if there were a financial dominaton munch. I think it would be a bunch of financial Dommes and nobody else. [:D]

crazyml -> RE: does Anyone seek a male wife?? (3/10/2013 1:07:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Baroana I'm not sure why you have to be such a jerk about it. I didn't "scoot into Google." I got my definition from Merriam Webster, and from the start I qualified the statement fully and expressed the utmost reservations about accepting it as true. Oh I'm sincerely sorry if you felt I was being a jerk about it. I'll be honest and admit that I was jetlagged yesterday and more likely to be snarky. I would also, respectfully, suggest that you might be being a teensy bit over sensitive? quote: Are you also disputing the fact that "husband" translates at least in part to "master of the house"? Have I given even the remotest hint that I dispute this? quote: So, even under the most innocuous meaning of "wife," the meaning is that "my wife is my woman" and "my husband is my master of the house." No, I have to (with the greatest respect and the utmost care for your sensibilities) argue that this is a nonsense twisting of the meaning of words. The most innocuous meaning of "wife" in modern usage is simply "Female Partner". Just as the most innocuous meaning of "husband" is "Male Partner". Indeed, I bet you $100 to be given to the charity of your choice that if you asked 100 people today whether "Wife" was closer to "female partner" than it is "my woman" the significant majority would choose the former meaning rather than the latter. quote: Do you not see how that could rub some women the wrong way these days? Oh I can see how it could rub some people (in the interests of gender equality, I'd prefer not to limit this statement to women) up the wrong way these days, for sure. But I do think it's a little bit silly, it's almost as if the people that this offends are deliberately trying to eke offence out of something where none was intended. And yes, I'm all about sweating the little things, and I'm always on the look out for behaviours that I exhibit which might be sexist, with a view to changing them. But I do have an issue with people who take a stand over words, based on a meaning that may have been current at some time in the past, but which simply no longer carries the same baggage. Going back to my other disagreement with you You're entitled not to be comfortable with certain terms and words that are used in the world of kink, of course, and you're entitled to express your reservations. But, I do think that it is wrong to ascribe a different and politically charged meaning to a term that has been very well understood for a long time. That's the type of thing that causes more harm to the gender equality movement than it does good.

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