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RE: broken?? - 2/27/2013 8:47:06 AM

chatterbox24

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I agree, with Oside statement.

Kinky sex does not equal submission. Submission equals kinky sex. (MAYBE, maybe, maybe) if your lucky.

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RE: broken?? - 2/27/2013 10:07:33 AM

Dyfrynt

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Not knowing you or your Master it is very difficult to make informed opinions. Several have looked at what you have written and expressed concern. You have responded that the two of you have been together a long time, and that you believe he has no desire to hurt you. Fair enough. We can only take you at your word.

Looking at the things you are curious about, you obviously crave the deep end of the pool.

I would personally add one other concern. Forcing you to lay bare repressed memories and other such super intense moments of your life is nothing that should be done casually. In fact it should not be done at all, unless he has a medical degree and years of experience to back it up.

He can have nothing but the best intentions for you, and still cause you great harm, even though that is the last thing he would have wanted. The games you two are playing are potentially extremely dangerous to you. To your mental health not only short term but potentially long term as well.

Will that happen? No it may not, and yes it could. Please try and be careful.

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Post #: 22

RE: broken?? - 2/27/2013 10:40:06 AM

Casteele

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From: Near Sacramento, California, USA
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I only read something about "playtime" and "scening".. did skim, but not read the journals.. So I'm not sure where "kinky sex" was part of the OP's topic.. but even so, is sexual domination any less legitimate than any other form?

I've also read many posts where people proclaim being Dominant means "breaking" the sub, to rebuild her, faster, stronger, better, able to leap deep dungeons in a single bound..

I've also seen many relationships where one side gets off on not just breaking but completely destroying the other, for whatever reasons.

The biggest thing I see, though, is a lot of postings which jump to conclusions based on a few trigger words, rather than asking for more details to complete the story and make sure they are understanding it correctly. "He broke me of the 'super sized' junk food habit" is different than "he broke me so much emotionally that I tried to kill myself."

Since the OP's first instinct was to respond with "no", I'm going to assume it was more of a question of worry and concern that her breaking down emotionally in to tears was more a question of wanting to make sure he did not harm her while pushing her limits. Then she started to second guess the situation, and wanted other people's thoughts on what it would mean to *them*, outside of the context of her relationship with him. To me, this indicates a desire not for advice, commentary and judgement, but some kind of standard measuring stick in which to check herself against. However, I do not believe such a measuring stick exists.. Everyone's experiences and needs differ.

For myself, I see "breaking" a sub as tearing down her walls, breaking the emotional chains which bind her and hold her back from being all that I believe she can be. Most subs I know have an extremely difficult time letting go of control while still feeling safe and secure. They need that external force to "break" them so that they can let go and fall more freely in to that "sub space" that is so often discussed aroud here. It requires a lot of strength.. and finesse. It means dancing along the fine line at the edge of limits, where sometimes one can unintentionally take a step too far and cause harm. I will occasionally probe her and ask her questions to gauge how well I managed that, without causing her true or severe harm.

I know others here take the opposite approach, demanding their dom is always perfect, always in control, always just "knows" and is not capable of making a mistake. But I also sometimes see those same ones go from a healthy, happy and strong relationship to a bitter, angry, and hurtful one with nothing more then a misplaced word or action, because the expectations were set too high or putting them on a pedastal so high, the fall was fatal. It has happened to me; I went from being the perfect god in her eye, incapable of being wrong or making mistakes, to being nothing short of a total scumbag, because I failed to live up to that perfect god image she made of me when I accidentally touched a very tender spot that I had no clue was there.

Disclaimer: Individual results may vary. In clinical tests, side effects sometimes included the need for large doses of chocolate candies. Common sense and a grain of salt is required before taking anything I say to heart.

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Post #: 23

RE: broken?? - 2/27/2013 10:57:02 AM

ChatteParfaitt

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Is 'breaking' a trigger word for me? Oh yeah, I have no trouble admitting that.

quote:

I accidentally touched a very tender spot that I had no clue was there.

Everyone has very tender spots that others don't know about. *They* might not even know about them. Which is why rustling around in someone's psyche should be done with great care.

quote:

I've also read many posts where people proclaim being Dominant means "breaking" the sub, to rebuild her, faster, stronger, better, able to leap deep dungeons in a single bound..

I'd love some links to those threads or posts, I've been here for years in one guise or another, and I seem to have missed them.

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RE: broken?? - 3/6/2013 5:10:54 PM

Casteele

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt
Is 'breaking' a trigger word for me? Oh yeah, I have no trouble admitting that.

Shall we dance around it? Shall we do everything we can to avoid it, so as to not upset you? Shall we avoid any trigger word of anyone out there in order to avoid upsetting someone? We would never get anywhere or be able to communicate effectively if we tried to never say anything someone finds offensive or objectionable--If for not other reason than the mere fact that there's always someone out there who wants to be offended and/or object to something.

This IS an adult site, and as silly as it is to expect this, I DO expect most of the members here to behave in an adult-like manner. I know it does not happen and I am expecting too much, but I refuse to lower my standards simply because (few, some, many, most, take your pick) fail to meet those standards, and act in an unbecoming or uncivil manner. You recognize it's a trigger word for you, so are you going to allow it to drive you, control you, master you to the point of lashing out at everyone who uses it?

I hope not, but.. if you do, that's your choice.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

Everyone has very tender spots that others don't know about. *They* might not even know about them. Which is why rustling around in someone's psyche should be done with great care.

I do not disagree there; However, every time we interact with another human, every time we do something for them whether benign or malicious, we're poking around with their thoughts and feelings. Right now, your response to mine is "poking around", as is my response to yours. I'm not going to "walk on eggshells" any more than you are just to avoid upsetting the other.

But I digress, in that I think the real issue here is where the line is drawn, which is an individual thing for many, and often seems a very touchy subject, as well. One that probably should get it's own thread rather than risk hijacking this one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt
I'd love some links to those threads or posts, I've been here for years in one guise or another, and I seem to have missed them.

Here's three threads directly related to the topic:
Breaking a Sub
Breaking a Slave
sadist master

Here's one which the topic was brought up in the course of discussion:
RE: Please help me understand why...

If you want more references, do a bit of reading and searching on your own--Your challenge was only that I demonstrate that you have indeed missed such topics. (Which was a silly challenge to begin with, unless you sit around here all day reading every single post on every sub-board without ever missing any, but anyhow, I digress again..)

Keep in mind that I am not arguing for or against the idea of "breaking someone to make them better", just pointing it out that it does exist in one form or another regardless of yours or my own opinions on the matter.

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RE: broken?? - 3/6/2013 7:29:46 PM

njlauren

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Breaking can hold some really negative connotations and I can understand people's concerns. It connotes among other things someone deliberately out to break someone's spirit, to treat them in such a way as they give up, and that isn't submission, it is literally emotionally damaging them. It would be like someone having a dog and beating the crap out of it until it simply loses all its will and spirit, and the same thing can happen with people. I don't know what the OP's M meant, so I cannot effectively talk about what happened there (emotional reactions after tough scenes is not unusual IME, the endorphin drop off alone causes all kinds of stuff, that is emotional overload coming into play as well, and it is not unusual, it is where a lot of dominants spend time on aftercare, in making sure their sub is okay). I don't like the term breaking (and yes, that is mine), if people use it that is their business, but you don't break a sub, you train them, or rather, you get them to submit to you by showing trust, firm guidance and discipline; you don't 'break' their spirit, you channel it. I think a lot of people pooh pooh the kind of emotional damage that can be done to someone in supposed training, someone who doesn't know what the fuck they are doing could cause some real harm in their quest to 'break' a sub. Take someone who is claustrophobic and put them in sensory dep or the wrong kind of bondage, you could drive them into a psychotic break, take someone who has been abused and deliberately remind them of it, and you can have someone go into catatonic shock or worse and the emotional damage is a lot more difficult to repair then a dominant that goes over the top physically. I have read posts by supposed dominants, and met some, who really scared the shit out of me, they started believing their PR and thought that they truly were some sort of dominant god with the right to fuck in people's heads, my therapist had several patients who were recovering from assholes like that (and she was more then scene friendly, she was a domme herself), so this is a very real thing, and I think people were expressing their concern.

Again, I am not talking about the OP, I have to take her word that he said it in jest and is caring. Still, I can understand the reaction, like in any community, there are a group of people who frankly either don't know what they are doing or don't care, and they are scary and can cause real damage. Mind games are all great and good, but they also have the potential to cause serious, lasting damage. In the safety protocols for scene play most of it focuses on the physical, about how not to tie someone up, not to use electrical stuff in certain ways and so forth, but there is almost nothing out there about emotional safety, and especially with deep D/s, I wish there was.

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RE: broken?? - 3/7/2013 5:32:27 AM

LadyPact

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Since the original question was about what it means to Me, I'll go with that regarding My response.

Generally, it's a crap term usually used by those who don't take the significance of the word into account. I'm kind of a literal chick. If we were talking about a thing, rather than a person, well, I know there's a lot of stuff lying around My house that, if I break it, I honestly can't fix it, (which is the solution to a broken item) and even if I fix it, that probably won't make it 'better than new'. If I break a dish, the dish isn't going to be better just because I attempt gluing it together.

Most *people* are a lot more complicated to put back together than a dish. I don't have the capacity to 'fix' a broken mind or spirit. For those with psychology degrees who are up to that task, more power to ya, but I'm not one of you.

Back to being literal. In the case of "breaking you of a habit," and shortening that to "breaking you," that's some piss poor and inaccurate communication, right there. It was the habit that was broken. Not the person.

Depending on a person's disposition, an attempt at humor for an emotional response might not be the best idea. A person experiencing a catharsis of some sort generally wants to feel safe and secure. We can tickle the funny bone later. I'd rather take the safe bet and deal with whatever it was that brought the emotional response and handle it in the way that I feel is most appropriate. When tears are running down somebody's face at the end of the scene, that's probably not the time I'm going to pick to be jovial.

< Message edited by LadyPact -- 3/7/2013 5:33:48 AM >

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RE: broken?? - 3/7/2013 1:36:40 PM

Kana

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Personally I prefer to fold, spindle and mutilate.
Broken is so final :-p

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RE: broken?? - 3/7/2013 1:42:45 PM

Hillwilliam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Personally I prefer to fold, spindle and mutilate.
Broken is so final :-p

2 words.

Duct Tape

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RE: broken?? - 3/7/2013 2:36:12 PM

Kana

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Personally I prefer to fold, spindle and mutilate.
Broken is so final :-p

2 words.

Duct Tape

The answer to ALL relationship difficulties in life

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RE: broken?? - 3/7/2013 8:53:25 PM

njlauren

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Since the original question was about what it means to Me, I'll go with that regarding My response.

Generally, it's a crap term usually used by those who don't take the significance of the word into account. I'm kind of a literal chick. If we were talking about a thing, rather than a person, well, I know there's a lot of stuff lying around My house that, if I break it, I honestly can't fix it, (which is the solution to a broken item) and even if I fix it, that probably won't make it 'better than new'. If I break a dish, the dish isn't going to be better just because I attempt gluing it together.

Most *people* are a lot more complicated to put back together than a dish. I don't have the capacity to 'fix' a broken mind or spirit. For those with psychology degrees who are up to that task, more power to ya, but I'm not one of you.

Back to being literal. In the case of "breaking you of a habit," and shortening that to "breaking you," that's some piss poor and inaccurate communication, right there. It was the habit that was broken. Not the person.

Depending on a person's disposition, an attempt at humor for an emotional response might not be the best idea. A person experiencing a catharsis of some sort generally wants to feel safe and secure. We can tickle the funny bone later. I'd rather take the safe bet and deal with whatever it was that brought the emotional response and handle it in the way that I feel is most appropriate. When tears are running down somebody's face at the end of the scene, that's probably not the time I'm going to pick to be jovial.