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[Poll]

Is Sadism a mental illness?


Yes, Sadism is a mental illness.
  36% (24)
No, Sadism is normal.
  63% (41)


Total Votes : 65


(last vote on : 5/2/2013 2:38:06 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Is Sadism a mental illness? - 3/3/2013 7:56:59 AM   
chatterbox24


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

Sadism the way *I* define it is a mental illness. The important components being that the acts are non-consensual, and that they escalate in intensity, much like an addiction.

If I have to pull numbers out of my ass, I would say 75% of what people get up to while practicing S&M is not sadism as I define it. It's kinky sex on the outer edges of what is considered psychologically 'normal.'

The other 25% are edge players who I believe cross the line of mental illness due to having a 'slave' who is internally enslaved, which broaches the issue of consent, and who trend toward more and more intensity.

These are my opinions only, your mileage my vary, I pulled the percentages out of my ass, so consider the source.







This is the way I'd sum it up too. I also think some sadists can function very well in society but could be dangerously abusive behind closed doors. Oppurtunity escalates those desires and may take it further and further as time goes on as a masochist or internal slave feeds them.

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RE: Is Sadism a mental illness? - 3/3/2013 8:33:54 AM   
seekingOwnertoo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

I think Sadism in it's truest sense is a mental illness. That would be defined as inflicting and enjoying pain without consent.




my thoughts, exactly!

Thank You for sharing .. OsideGirl!


I am a masochist, and love a sadistic Woman all over me! but there are many, many instances, where this would not be consensual.

Nor part of a real relationship.

For me personally, i love sadist Women! And seek a balanced, Sadistic Lady for a relationship.

But too many news items seen recently, indicate there are those who don't rely on consensual behavior.

That I would classify as criminal ... more so than a mental health issue.





< Message edited by seekingOwnertoo -- 3/3/2013 8:43:06 AM >

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RE: Is Sadism a mental illness? - 3/3/2013 10:46:45 AM   
Charles6682


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I've been around enough sadistic women already!Consenseual sadism is fine with me but if a safeword gets ignored,thats no longer consensual.I do like pain to a degree.It can be fun with the right person.However,I am not a hardcore painslut.Some could term what I did before as "Extreme Female Domination",which to a degree is exactly that.Just because I have a tolerance for pain doesn't mean I always enjoy it.Safewords should be respected.Anything can become an addiction or mental illness.I can gamble $20 and be fine.Yet,the person next to me may have a gambling addiction.Thats just one example out of many.

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RE: Is Sadism a mental illness? - 3/3/2013 11:25:45 AM   
autumnember


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

I think Sadism in it's truest sense is a mental illness. That would be defined as inflicting and enjoying pain without consent.


This... the without consent is recognized in the field

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RE: Is Sadism a mental illness? - 3/3/2013 3:30:06 PM   
slavejohn1234


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I am sure Sadism is not a mental illness.
But if I dont soon find a sadistic woman I will go crazy.
John in London UK

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RE: Is Sadism a mental illness? - 3/3/2013 6:28:56 PM   
njlauren


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I also am very, very leery when I read something like the article in question, among other things, I know of that therapist and her practice, and I have to tell you, if someone asked me to refer them to a therapy group, I wouldn't send them there (that group handles trans folks, I have met some of the people who use them, and all I have to say is I really wonder what planet they are on...). When I read things like "Psychologists are no different then the Catholic Church" or read things like 'aversion or shock therapy is considered legitimate treatment for fetishistic transvestites' I shudder, because among other things, it is a bald faced lie. Yeah, I am sure there are therapists out there who claim being a crossdresser or a sub or whatever is mental illness, there are supposedly licensed therapists out there who claim that 'reversion' therapy will cure homosexuality, but they are a fringe minority.

Like doctors, psychologists and psychiatrists are influenced by social norms, by biases, there is no doubt (for example, in things like weight, diet and health, most doctors are woefully ignorant) and they have done stupid things. 30 years ago, if you were a M to F transgender person, you basically had to claim you sexually were into men and have the ultimate goal of transition as finding some guy and getting married; if you were married, even if you wanted to stay with your wife, they forced you to get divorced, if you told them you liked women, they would tell you to take a hike, because if you liked women, stay a man *sigh*....so yes, they have caused pain, and a lot of it does come down to the biases and stupidity that are part of society, especially organized religion, that promoted the beliefs of bronze age nomads not far removed from Al Qaeda of today as 'truth speakers'....Like any human profession, there are people with biases, there are people with agendas, all kinds of wacked out that happen, and yes, therapy often is more of an art then science, but that doesn't negate its value.

The thing is, though, that unlike let's say the Catholic Church, that is locked into ancient foolishness, psychology and psychiatry have change mechanisms. The DSM changes, it removed homosexuality 40 years ago thanks to the work of psychologists and psychiatrists, based on the research and knowledge they had, forced change. More and more the DSM is taking the attitude that as long as something doesn't interfere with life, if it isn't stopping normal functioning or leading someone to suicide or self med'ing (drug addiction), it is not a problem. BD/SM, crossdressing, masturbation, all of them today, even in the DSM as afar as I know, are not treated as mental illness (I read the DSM years ago, on BD/SM and so forth, and Nichols, the author, is full of shit from what I recall, and it said as long as it is consensual and as long as it doesn't interfere with normal life, it is fine). And no, because a wife isn't into BD/SM and wants a divorce, in the eyes of the DSM that doesn't make the husband mentally ill, that isn't what they mean; what they mean is if someone is so into BD/SM that they cannot function, like holding a job, having normal social relationships, existing in the real world, that then they may be ill; but the same thing is true of anything else, someone obsessed about a movie, about a hobby, about a car, about anything is mentally ill.

BTW the DSM is sort of a bible for psych types, but it isn't the be all and end all. As crappy as it sounds, its primary function is not so much about treating patients, which most therapists do individually and based on their own experience, it primarily is used to get re-imbursement from insurance companies and also to CYA if professional boards or others come snooping around, it is a bureaucratic tool as much as a therapeutic one.

I think Sadism is only a mental illness when you are talking true sadism, when someone gets off on truly making someone or something suffer, with absolutely no thought of the person they are doing it to. I agree with another poster, it may not just be the creep who kidnaps people and tortures them; a sadistic top in a scene who totally blows by safewords, who ignores stated limits repeatedly, who has been shown to be an 'unsafe top' is also mentally ill IMO, because they are totally not acknowledging the damage they are doing. I have seen TPE relationships where the sub/slave agrees that anything the D/M does is okay, that they don't have the right to refuse, and if the D/M wants to cause them physical harm, like breaking bones or worse, that is their right, and in that case, I think both of them are mentally ill, that that is taking total control way over the line (to me, self preservation is the first rule of sanity, as is respecting the right of other's self preservation) and there is no justification there. But those are extremes, but within the BD/SM realm, if the people are hurting themselves or others, they can function (and when I say hurt, I mean real harm) and are otherwise living their lives, it most definitely is not, and I believe the DSM IV says pretty much the same thing.

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RE: Is Sadism a mental illness? - 3/4/2013 2:45:30 PM   
egern


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In the bdsm world neither sadism nor masochism is an illness.

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RE: Is Sadism a mental illness? - 3/4/2013 3:59:36 PM   
kalikshama


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The author of the paper is misrepresenting the DSM-IV when she says, "...But psychiatry still pathologizes BDSM."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BDSM#Psychological_categorization

With the publication of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV) in 1994 new criteria of diagnosis were available describing BDSM clearly not as disorders of sexual preferences. They are no longer regarded as illnesses in and of themselves. The DSM-IV asserts that "The fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors" must "cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning" in order for sexual sadism or masochism to be considered a disorder.

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RE: Is Sadism a mental illness? - 3/4/2013 6:33:26 PM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

The author of the paper is misrepresenting the DSM-IV when she says, "...But psychiatry still pathologizes BDSM."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BDSM#Psychological_categorization

With the publication of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV) in 1994 new criteria of diagnosis were available describing BDSM clearly not as disorders of sexual preferences. They are no longer regarded as illnesses in and of themselves. The DSM-IV asserts that "The fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors" must "cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning" in order for sexual sadism or masochism to be considered a disorder.

Thank you , that was my memory of it as well. The author of that piece has decided agendas, it is why I made the comments about that practice. She sells herself as an oasis in the sea of darkness, as this beacon in a world of misunderstanding, and quite honestly I don't think she is doing her patients any good by promoting that idea. The trans girls I have met who worked with her group had chips on their shoulders a mile wide and also tended to read bad things into what everyone said or did to them, which is the last thing someone should be doing.

Like I said in my prior post, the standards in the profession have changed a lot, it is basically if you aren't hurting anyone, or yourself, and are living life, it is fine:). Yeah, there are so called 'feminist' psychologists who promote the idea BD/SM is abuse, there are the bible thumpers and the people who haven't gotten out of the 1950's but they are a minority IME.

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RE: Is Sadism a mental illness? - 3/5/2013 6:50:46 AM   
subinsilicon


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A bit OT but is there a way to see who voted in a poll for what answer?

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RE: Is Sadism a mental illness? - 3/5/2013 7:14:12 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


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Here's a rash idea, ask them.

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RE: Is Sadism a mental illness? - 3/5/2013 10:05:01 AM   
LPslittleclip


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the next issue of the dsm (dsm V)still has sexual sadism and sexual masochisim as disorders this is a improvement from previous editions but still has a way to go. possibly the dsm IV will have more progress made

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RE: Is Sadism a mental illness? - 3/5/2013 12:33:32 PM   
mnottertail


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VI is what I am thinking you mean, clipster, 4 < 5 < 6  (ie IV < V < VI) 

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RE: Is Sadism a mental illness? - 3/5/2013 12:37:15 PM   
LadyPact


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Yeah, I pointed that out to him when he got back. Thanks for catching it, too, Ron.


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RE: Is Sadism a mental illness? - 3/5/2013 12:42:29 PM   
mnottertail


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NOLO PROBLEMAMINIUS (THUS ENDETH MY LATIN EXPERTISE)

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RE: Is Sadism a mental illness? - 3/5/2013 1:00:08 PM   
thishereboi


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RE: Is Sadism a mental illness? - 3/5/2013 2:01:19 PM   
SomethingCatchy


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I voted -Yes, it's a mental illness. In my opinion there's nothing normal or sane about wanting to inflict pain on others in order to achieve some kind of gratification. However, I'm not interested in being normal and many other things about me have already ruled out the sane part, too. I've stopped worrying if I'm some sort of freak and have embraced the fact that there are things I enjoy that others do not. Who the fuck cares.

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RE: Is Sadism a mental illness? - 3/5/2013 2:13:47 PM   
littlewonder


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subinsilicon

A bit OT but is there a way to see who voted in a poll for what answer?


NM

Who? No

Do you get to see who voted in the elections and for whom?




< Message edited by littlewonder -- 3/5/2013 2:15:17 PM >


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RE: Is Sadism a mental illness? - 3/5/2013 5:18:21 PM   
MalcolmNathaniel


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Am I the only one who questions the validity of the question?

Your options are: BDSM is an illness or it's normal.

Since when is not being normal an illness?

I'm a geek. I know the inner workings of a computer - right down to the transistors. I was awed by the simplicity of Einstein's theory of relativity and floored by how many others before him had missed it. I vote every election.

Is any of that normal?

No.

But does any of that make me mentally ill?

Normal is the average. That would mean that everyone has brown hair, 1.04 breasts, 96% testicles, half a penis, one ovary...

... I doubt the very validity of the question.

What we do is not normal, but it isn't a mental disease.

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RE: Is Sadism a mental illness? - 3/5/2013 10:21:25 PM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LPslittleclip

the next issue of the dsm (dsm V)still has sexual sadism and sexual masochisim as disorders this is a improvement from previous editions but still has a way to go. possibly the dsm IV will have more progress made


I don't believe they are listed in DSM V as disorders, and I am pretty certain in DSM IV they weren't either. They are listed, as is homosexuality, but they are listed saying they are only issues if they interfere with normal functioning or the person has trouble with it. Gender Identity disorder is in there as well, but the DSM specifically says it is not a mental illness (there is no cure for GID), but rather, as with homosexuality, that the person with it may need help in accepting who/what they are, the negativity associated with it and so forth. V isn't out yet, but when it comes out I'll probably get a copy from the library and see.

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