RE: Obama. What did he pass/do/say about guns before sandy? (Full Version)

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estimer -> RE: Obama. What did he pass/do/say about guns before sandy? (3/3/2013 1:11:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


Principles that Obama supports on gun issues
    Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.
Says it all.




K.


So I go ogled the statement u posted here. It took me to the obamagun site u posted. From there I got the name of them bill that was used to make that statment this is it.

My source is: http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=&SessionId=3&GA=93&DocTypeId=SB&DocNum=2165&GAID=3&LegID=7961&SpecSess=&Session=



SB2165 Enrolled LRB093 15639 RLC 41247 b

1 AN ACT concerning criminal law.

2 Be it enacted by the People of the State of Illinois,
3 represented in the General Assembly:

4 Section 5. The Criminal Code of 1961 is amended by adding
5 Section 24-10 as follows:

6 (720 ILCS 5/24-10 new)
7 Sec. 24-10. Municipal ordinance regulating firearms;
8 affirmative defense to a violation. It is an affirmative
9 defense to a violation of a municipal ordinance that prohibits,
10 regulates, or restricts the private ownership of firearms if
11 the individual who is charged with the violation used the
12 firearm in an act of self-defense or defense of another as
13 defined in Sections 7-1 and 7-2 of this Code when on his or her
14 land or in his or her abode or fixed place of business.

15 Section 99. Effective date. This Act takes effect upon
16 becoming law.




estimer -> RE: Obama. What did he pass/do/say about guns before sandy? (3/3/2013 1:20:33 PM)

This bill seems to be saying that some one is in violation if they use a gun to defend their home they are still in violation. So I guess that means they can go to jail as well.


Any thoughts anyone as to interpretation.

But it clearly does not make any statments for or against legal ownership. And morally, if my assertion is right, Obama is correct in his vote. Legally speaking i say the bill should have passed as it did.




estimer -> RE: Obama. What did he pass/do/say about guns before sandy? (3/3/2013 1:23:14 PM)

So far fail from obamagun.bullshit. I will try again.



estimer -> RE: Obama. What did he pass/do/say about guns before sandy? (3/3/2013 1:37:20 PM)

source
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?DocNum=2165&GAID=3&DocTypeID=SB&LegId=7961&SessionID=3&GA=93


Synopsis As Introduced
Amends the Criminal Code of 1961. Provides that it is an affirmative defense to a violation of a municipal ordinance that prohibits, regulates, or restricts the private ownership of firearms if the individual who is charged with the violation used the firearm in an act of self-defense or defense of another. Effective immediately.



Kirata -> RE: Obama. What did he pass/do/say about guns before sandy? (3/3/2013 1:46:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: estimer

So I go ogled the statement u posted here. It took me to the obamagun site u posted.

Try to get a grip. I didn't post a link to any "obamagun" site. The source of the statement you're quoting from my post is VoteSmart. The clue to this was the link, which, if you had troubled to read, you wouldn't have searched for it as a statement that somebody actually said:

In response to the increasing unwillingness of candidates to answer issue questions, Project Vote Smart has researched Presidential and Congressional candidates' public records to determine candidates' likely responses on certain key issues. These are provided below as a courtesy to voters.

Likely to be among the records on which VoteSmart relied was Obama's response to a query from the Independent Voters of Illinois, cited by Ontheissues.org, to which I linked in my very first post.

A Chicago nonprofit, Independent Voters of Illinois, had this question, and Obama took hard line:

35. Do you support state legislation to:
       a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes.

Now, since it's obvious that you're not even bothering to pay any attention to the links cited in my posts, could you please stop pretending to be only interested in data?

K.



estimer -> RE: Obama. What did he pass/do/say about guns before sandy? (3/3/2013 1:52:19 PM)

Do sorry I miss quoted your source that doesn't change the fact the facts are incorrect

I. Got this from your ontheissues site wo took it from the 2008 debates and it is correct.

Q: When you were in the state senate, you talked about licensing and registering gun owners. Would you do that as president?
A: I don’t think that we can get that done. But what we can do is to provide just some common-sense enforcement. The efforts by law enforcement to obtain the information required to trace back guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers. As president, I intend to make it happen. We essentially have two realities, when it comes to guns, in this country. You’ve got the tradition of lawful gun ownership. It is very important for many Americans to be able to hunt, fish, take their kids out, teach them how to shoot. Then you’ve got the reality of 34 Chicago public school students who get shot down on the streets of Chicago. We can reconcile those two realities by making sure the Second Amendment is respected and that people are able to lawfully own guns, but that we also start cracking down on the kinds of abuses of firearms that we see on the streets.



estimer -> RE: Obama. What did he pass/do/say about guns before sandy? (3/3/2013 1:56:13 PM)

Ok I apologize I am getting bitchy.
the original assertion. About that bill is incorrect. And interesting lay enough his statement in the 2008 campaign was exactly what he did in the executive Order.



estimer -> RE: Obama. What did he pass/do/say about guns before sandy? (3/3/2013 2:02:16 PM)

That search actually took me to ontheissues. If that is the same thing or not it really doesnt matter because i based my opinion of the Bill based on the bill itself Not any website in question. So relax. Dont stay bitey.



Owner59 -> RE: Obama. What did he pass/do/say about guns before sandy? (3/3/2013 2:14:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: estimer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


Principles that Obama supports on gun issues
    Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.
Says it all.

K.


Based on what statement, video, or legislation. Do you base that statement. Post the full speech, video or legislation?





On things he pulls out of his ass....[X(]



Kirata -> RE: Obama. What did he pass/do/say about guns before sandy? (3/3/2013 2:15:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: estimer

Do sorry I miss quoted your source that doesn't change the fact the facts are incorrect

I. Got this from your ontheissues site wo took it from the 2008 debates and it is correct.

Q: When you were in the state senate, you talked about licensing and registering gun owners. Would you do that as president?

A: I don’t think that we can get that done. But...


Apology accepted. But if you're going to present what he says when he's playing to a television audience as proof that facts are "incorrect," we're not gonna get along. I suggest you reflect on the sentence I highlighted above. I think it makes pretty clear that what he'd like to do and what he can do are two different things. "But," as he says, a little bite here, a little bite there.

K.



Kirata -> RE: Obama. What did he pass/do/say about guns before sandy? (3/3/2013 2:22:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

On things he pulls out of his ass....[X(]

Please don't embarrass him with your support. It just makes him look bad.

K.



estimer -> RE: Obama. What did he pass/do/say about guns before sandy? (3/3/2013 2:23:36 PM)

I am trying to find the bill that everyone says Obama supported that would ban rifles. A little help if anyone know what its name is.



estimer -> RE: Obama. What did he pass/do/say about guns before sandy? (3/3/2013 2:27:05 PM)

Ok i am going to type this calmly.

You didn't read what I posted. you just commented I know this because you said:


Apology accepted. But if you're going to present what he says when he's playing to a television audience as proof that facts are "incorrect," we're not gonna get along. I suggest you reflect on the sentence I highlighted above. I think it makes pretty clear that what he'd like to do and what he can do are two different things. "But," as he says, a little bite here, a little bite there.


Now in the debate he said: (the whole answer is posted)
"...what we can do is to provide just some common-sense enforcement. The efforts by law enforcement to obtain the information required to trace back guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers. As president, I intend to make it happen."
"...can reconcile those (hunting and murders) two realities by making sure the Second Amendment is respected and that people are able to lawfully own guns, but that we also star tcracking down on the kinds of abuses of firearms that we see on the streets.


This is what he did (signed the exectuive order that set up)

Section 1. Firearms Tracing. (a) Federal law enforcement agencies shall ensure that all firearms recovered after the date of this memorandum in the course of criminal investigations and taken into Federal custody are traced through ATF at the earliest time practicable. Federal law enforcement agencies, as well as other executive departments and agencies, are encouraged, to the extent practicable, to take steps to ensure that firearms recovered prior to the date of this memorandum in the course of criminal investigations and taken into Federal custody are traced through ATF.





These are logically equivalent statements. he said he was going to try to trace guns used in crimes and he is trying to trace guns used in crimes to remove them from the streats.


Again just to be clear.



What did he say in 2008


"The efforts by law enforcement to obtain the information required to trace back guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers. As president, I intend to make it happen."

What did he do 2013
Signed the executive order Causing.

Firearms Tracing. (a) Federal law enforcement agencies shall ensure that all firearms recovered after the date of this memorandum in the course of criminal investigations and taken into Federal custody are traced through ATF at the earliest time practicable. Federal law enforcement agencies, as well as other executive departments and agencies, are encouraged, to the extent practicable, to take steps to ensure that firearms recovered prior to the date of this memorandum in the course of criminal investigations and taken into Federal custody are traced through ATF.

This is twice now. This is why I wan't people to get the source not a source of the source.




TricklessMagic -> RE: Obama. What did he pass/do/say about guns before sandy? (3/3/2013 3:56:01 PM)

Estimer, the issue your hunting for has long been fought over. Has Obama come straight out and said he wants to destroy the 2nd Amendment? No. He's never said it. But networks in circles that desire to. Remember Bill Ayers was his mentor and Bill Ayers had some interesting things to say to an FBI informant once upon a time.

Plus he's from Chicago, as a politician, if that doesn't tell you something, then you'll never hear what those on the right have to say. So you swing your way on Obama, I'll swing mine, and let us agree we will likely never agree on anything in regards to firearms. I doubt you were of any value to the Right to Keep and Bear Arms crowd based on everything I have seen. You keep saying Obama is not coming for guns, and the 49% of this country that doesn't believe that will keep on hoarding guns and ammo. Hell with all the money I've made selling my surplus guns and ammo (I learned the value of hoarding in 2008/9), I hope he does come out as an enemy of the 2nd Amendment so I can make more money since I started building my "Shovel Aks". I've got some more old AR 15 builds I'd like to get $2,000 for (that only cost me $600) and I've still got a couple of AKs in my safe I can part with for $1,400 a pop (that I either built or bought for less than $600). Not to mention all the reloaded .223 I can unload at a dollar a round (that I reloaded for less than $.15 a round) after unloading 4,000 old reloads that had been sitting in my closet for over two years.

If the Dems do a good job of hiding their Anti-American tendencies I'll be able to restock and then-some for cheap in December. This time around I'll reload 10,000 rounds and keep them stashed for the next shennanigan.



Kirata -> RE: Obama. What did he pass/do/say about guns before sandy? (3/3/2013 4:07:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: estimer

This is why I wan't people to get the source not a source of the source.

In my opinion, you're just cherry-picking what you credit and pretending that everything else doesn't matter. But hey, that's your privilege. After all, this section of the boards isn't just for politics; it's for religion too. Bless you for your faith.

K.







tazzygirl -> RE: Obama. What did he pass/do/say about guns before sandy? (3/3/2013 4:21:15 PM)

quote:

I am trying to find the bill that everyone says Obama supported that would ban rifles. A little help if anyone know what its name is.


Everyone?

Might be helpful if you actually stated what it is you are looking for. You were given what you asked for....

"Obama. What did he pass/do/say about guns before sandy?"

That was your question....

quote:

So far fail from obamagun.bullshit. I will try again.


Pst... Kirata didnt post that, I did. Dare you to ask me why.



estimer -> RE: Obama. What did he pass/do/say about guns before sandy? (3/3/2013 4:53:41 PM)

Is the point of my thread not clear.
I am really not trying to say Obama is for or against anything.
Just am looking to compile all of the documentation in one thread.
He has been very clear about his stance on guns. I just want the information that isn't in tainted from any Extra sources. In my life I keep seeing people post or speak from sources. I mean like the previous posts i made. I had trying and failed to be socratic. I wanted k to pull up some specific bill he supported. In the same way i did. i did not choose Bill that to support obama. It just turned out that the original site was wrong in its assertion of what the bill was and that led to incorrect thoughts.
I guess the topic of this thread is obama but the real question is
Can we step out of our preconceived ideas and look at things objectively.

I mean is my previous post not sound. If it isnt point out why.if it it isnt but dont source fox npr cbn or whatever else. Look at what he said look at what he did.
The scary part is if he is stays consistent than the logic follows gun life is going To change.





In my own 3 hour tour i was trying to find the Law he supported that ban rifles/handguns. I could find the bill i could only find people talking about it. Not the bill itself. I want to see more facts and less rhetoric.

I keep hearing the gun argument but until sandy He made no moves on guns as president in his first term I am aware of.

And now he is responding no different than he said he would so far. I font know there is so much information now that there really is no real empirical data.





estimer -> RE: Obama. What did he pass/do/say about guns before sandy? (3/3/2013 5:04:01 PM)

No i didn't cherry pick i started with one idea and followed through with what I found. That was direct from obama himself. I wanted to comment on the thing were obama voted to not allow gun manufactures to be sued. But that is rhetoric and not what i wanted. Than i spent for ever trying to find the actual bill he supported to ban both handguns and rifles. I even posted for some help.

But the shit kicker is that you still haven't acknowledged the factual information I have posted. You just shoot it down based on the source. WTF

Than I put up the what he did and what he said thing and you still make no acknowledgement. this is why we are fucked up. I promise if you find that i have made a judgement in error I will own up to it.



estimer -> RE: Obama. What did he pass/do/say about guns before sandy? (3/3/2013 5:09:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estimer

Is the point of my thread not clear.
I am really not trying to say Obama is for or against anything.
Just am looking to compile all of the documentation in one thread.
He has been very clear about his stance on guns. I just want the information that isn't in tainted from any Extra sources. In my life I keep seeing people post or speak from sources. I mean like the previous posts i made. I had trying and failed to be socratic. I wanted k to pull up some specific bill he supported. In the same way i did. i did not choose Bill that to support obama. It just turned out that the original site was wrong in its assertion of what the bill was and that led to incorrect thoughts.
I guess the topic of this thread is obama but the real question is
Can we step out of our preconceived ideas and look at things objectively.

I mean is my previous post not sound. If it isnt point out why.if it it isnt but dont source fox npr cbn or whatever else. Look at what he said look at what he did.
The scary part is if he is stays consistent than the logic follows gun life is going To change.





In my own 3 hour tour i was trying to find the Law he supported that ban rifles/handguns. I could find the bill i could only find people talking about it. Not the bill itself. I want to see more facts and less rhetoric.

I keep hearing the gun argument but until sandy He made no moves on guns as president in his first term I am aware of.

And now he is responding no different than he said he would so far. I font know there is so much information now that there really is no real empirical data.





Ehh I realized that later put the i was past it.

And given the initial goal of my posting i don't care why you posted it (because i am in the nra). Weather the information is sound or not it is a biased source. I want to see plane jane borin ass low stuff. That we can discern



estimer -> RE: Obama. What did he pass/do/say about guns before sandy? (3/3/2013 5:18:56 PM)

"You keep saying Obama is not coming for guns, and the 49% of this country that doesn't b?lieve that will keep on hoarding guns and ammo. "

SCREEEEEECH>>>

I never said that. I have only touched directly on 2 points on Obama. 1 the Illinois bill 2165 has nothing to do with gun control. And the second point i made was that he hasn't actively done anything as president until after sandy hook.

I have actually said I know he feels he should ban firearms.

I would like for you to finish;

"Remember Bill Ayers was his mentor and Bill Ayers had some interesting things to say to an FBI informant once upon a time. "

With what he said.

thats the point of this thread. Because I don't know. didn't know who this guy was until now.



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